Wholesale pot prices plummet. Now there starting to get better

[DiscoBiscuit]

I'm all for fair taxation. I guess it's my idea of fair that would receive scrutiny. If a different system addressed the loopholes [and genuine tax laws that go against fair equity] I'd give it more consideration. The only problem with a consumption tax is it mimics a flat tax. I'm no economist but a primary argument against flat taxing is disparity.

IMO, taxes don't necessarily need to be income collected but rates need to be income based. A national sales tax or a national flat tax would require income rates to avoid being a flat basis. That said, it makes sense to me that taxes are collected on and of income.

IMO, the best argument for a different tax system like the flat tax or the consumption tax is the perceived lower payout. One of our problems is deficits. And we all know the money necessary to reign in debt is the same programs we don't want to see cut. In other words, our own personal interests.

IMO, reigning in spending is a longer term solution. Ultimately, the people will have to give up more of the benefits of the systems they already paid into. In the near term, we need to look at the top for the solutions to our short term economic woes. Get these global giants to start hiring here again or hit em where it hurts. After all, they've hit us for the last 30 years plus.

 

[Hydrosun]

C³

i like it..

DB the tax rate was as high as 91% but that was not the effective tax rate.
the convoluted 16,000 page tax code in out punitive income tax is what takes the supposed 38.6% tax rate on a company like GE to an effective -22.4% incentive
do away with income based tax and move to a consumption tax with "prebates" for essentials for lower income families and the fat cats have no loopholes to game the system.

www.fairtax.org

Wholly SHIT!!!!!!! I am Dagnabit! What mushroom did I take! Love that the man has never kept you out of the ring.

 

[Hydrosun]

I'm all for fair taxation. I guess it's my idea of fair that would receive scrutiny. If a different system addressed the loopholes [and genuine tax laws that go against fair equity] I'd give it more consideration. The only problem with a consumption tax is it mimics a flat tax. I'm no economist but a primary argument against flat taxing is disparity.

I'd like to narrow the focus here to this point.....

You said Fair and Disparity in the same paragraph. What I would like to forward is that NO EVALUATION should be made. If you place your bet on red and it comes up black tough shit, hope you had friends and family that bet the other way.

Among 6 or 7 billion on the globe someone will be luckiest / most blessed, why is the concepts of stealing their advantage for the "common good" more ethical than letting them retain their lottery winning luck advantage?



EDIT: The easy slam is that the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation SMASHES THE LIVING FUCK out of US International aid programs.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I guess I see the idea that some get rich at the expense of others. Even when capitalism is regulated to the point that business cleans up it's mess, doesn't unduly endanger workers and doesn't bilk the general economic macro, we buy their products and services. We generate their profit. Capitalism has to make a profit and it's generating more now than in the last century. The proverbial thumb is on our back.

If business was hiring the way they're sitting on capital atm or had a track record of taking their losses on their own chins or going to the employment solution while saying it'll happen when they get their latest tax break, (hello W extension) I might have more empathy for business. I'm not talking about people that sit on wealth that isn't classified nor taxed nor collected as income. Just the people that keep lobbying their way to zero tax and beyond. I'd also like to see tax shelters reduced or eliminated all together.

What justifies a rich person paying the same tax as a person having trouble making ends meet? Those rich people draw the same social perks as the poor and middle class. And if they go to the nursing home, their own blind trusts mean we pay their way.

The 60s saw the extremes of the top bracket. The 20s and the present saw and see the other extreme. I don't know where the line is that makes everybody gain but the 90s 39% saw gain for more of the population.

BTW, W's extension is 35%.

 

[Hydrosun]

These things you complain of are the same for all of us. When you are born there is some corporation and government that owns FUCKING EVERYTHING. Our job is to get ours and fuck them, I choose to band with those here and take my lumps it is a scary fucking place.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I just weigh the economic benefits. I happen to think that profit entities charge more than non-profits. IMO, government and business are not only separate, they're opposing entities with government recognizing that equity is necessary, even for the middle and poor. Opposing views of this principle element give us the political parties we have, based on economic philosophy.

I don't necessarily choose to disband but recognize your rights to see as you choose. Economics is a big part of freedom. IMO, freedom from taxes would simply mean I'd pay far more to capitalists seeking profit.

 

[Hydrosun]

I don't necessarily choose to disband but recognize your rights to see as you choose. Economics is a big part of freedom. IMO, freedom from taxes would simply mean I'd pay far more to capitalists seeking profit.

Thank you a million times over, many would have me killed and skinned for wanting to be an individual. Economics is a FUNDAMENTAL part of freedom. If you are into the company store you aren't free (see coal miners etc.).

 

[ijim]

Here on the wrong coast a lot of people wish they had California's problems. Just like Amsterdam California's problem is a product of their own success. I feel for those in Northern California where Cannabis has been the only decent source of income for decades. But because of security reasons and back to the country attitudes those counties affected have resisted development and industry. Its a two edge sword and sooner or later someones going to get hurt. But I feel no different than I did in the 70s when Colombian cartels started shipping by the tons and genetics like Panama Red, Oaxaca and Michoacan got pushed out of the market and prices doubled to $30 an ounce. I adjusted and have not bought a bag since. Our brothers in Northern California are going to have to adjust. They are just the tip of the iceberg. Shit runs down hill. Sooner or later the glut will drive prices down to a point that growing indoors is not economical. Most Cannabis on the market will be grown outdoors and we will see $15 and $20 dollar ounces again.

 

[Hydrosun]

You don't push out of the market and double the prices at the same time.

When you mentioned Oaxaca I started salivating abut the weed I scored in Puerto Escondido. I think your economic resume is a little short to believe your price forecasts but welcome!

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

IMO, the old company store left with workers rights. But we've still got it in the form of ColorTime, Rent-A Center, etc. They're only tied to the employer when the truck stops at work to collect from the employee.

But if the company store charged me less markup than the next capitalist system would, I'd have more economic freedom with the company store. After all, Rent-A-Center etc lobby to charge higher interest rates (and always will.)

I will reflect what I feel is similarity in government and business. It's the people that make it up, respectively. They've got alternative, often polar interests. That's why I scrutinize most of the info I get from either side. I don't always get the correct answers or the big picture yet often find ad sales media to be the most questionable info of all.

Greenspan was a decades long fan of Ayn Rand and free markets. After the systemic nature of the pre-bust housing frenzy, Greenspan admitted the idea of free markets is only as good as the people that seek short term gain at the expense of long term stability. In other words, checks are necessary to prevent exploitation of markets. I just hate he waited until he was old as Methuselah to admit publicly.

 

[DirtySouthTo707]

I feel like if you have something everyone wants and your the only one who has it, your already a step ahead of the game.I mean every grower is not the same and honestly the best herb I have smoked in Cali has been grown by east coast peeps.No disrespect intended but its almost like we take it more serious cause of the consequences involved where we are from.I don't know allot of Cali growers but I have met a few and the one word that comes to mind is shady,its all about numbers not quality,orders to fill,units to push out.I moved here to grow heady organic meds for sick people but boy have my eyes been opened lately.Some clubs I have mad respect for and they really help people but most are just scams for drug dealers to launder money IMO. I just want to get my 3 a unit,I don't think that is asking to much for meds that I literally baby through every phase of growth all organically checking the heads with a microscope for peak ripeness. Not to mention no one has my strains out here but me.I just wish it was a matter of clanking my jar down next to the other guy and having my quality speak for its self unfortunately it doesn't work that way quality takes a backseat to prices per unit and how many can you get me type of attitude.I wish they would just go ahead and openly allow recreational cannabis spots like in the Damn.That's the type of place I want to be part of where you don't have to "hide" under the guise of medical and we can be honest about quality and organics cause those are the shops people will want to frequent.Well maybe someday but first we gotta deal with the feds still shutting places down and making life difficult for people who want to imbibe in a plant.

 

[TruthOrLie]

I feel like if you have something everyone wants and your the only one who has it, your already a step ahead of the game.I mean every grower is not the same and honestly the best herb I have smoked in Cali has been grown by east coast peeps.No disrespect intended but its almost like we take it more serious cause of the consequences involved where we are from.I don't know allot of Cali growers but I have met a few and the one word that comes to mind is shady,its all about numbers not quality,orders to fill,units to push out.I moved here to grow heady organic meds for sick people but boy have my eyes been opened lately.Some clubs I have mad respect for and they really help people but most are just scams for drug dealers to launder money IMO. I just want to get my 3 a unit,I don't think that is asking to much for meds that I literally baby through every phase of growth all organically checking the heads with a microscope for peak ripeness. Not to mention no one has my strains out here but me.I just wish it was a matter of clanking my jar down next to the other guy and having my quality speak for its self unfortunately it doesn't work that way quality takes a backseat to prices per unit and how many can you get me type of attitude.I wish they would just go ahead and openly allow recreational cannabis spots like in the Damn.That's the type of place I want to be part of where you don't have to "hide" under the guise of medical and we can be honest about quality and organics cause those are the shops people will want to frequent.Well maybe someday but first we gotta deal with the feds still shutting places down and making life difficult for people who want to imbibe in a plant.

i couldn't read past the second line of this.

could u get the cheetos unstuck from underneath your space button?

PLEASE?

 

[Hydrosun]

i couldn't read past the second line of this.

could u get the cheetos unstuck from underneath your space button?

PLEASE?

We don't need no stinking carriage returns!

 

[Hydrosun]

I just want to get my 3 a unit,I don't think that is asking to much for meds that I literally baby through every phase of growth all organically checking the heads with a microscope for peak ripeness. Not to mention no one has my strains out here but me.I just wish it was a matter of clanking my jar down next to the other guy and having my quality speak for its self

You'd lose 999 times out of 1,000 or you'd already be getting 3+ and not worried about how poor business people run their club. Hard to believe someone from the east couldn't send it home for at least three

 

[DirtySouthTo707]

Shit bro if I wanted to continue to be a criminal and break the law I would send it home for 4500 but that's not what this is about to me.I want to be a legit farmer not have to worry about LEO kickn in my door every night make enough to pay my meager bills and puff all I want.I don't want to run a mass production warehouse spittn out sub par herb at low low prices just to meet quotas,I would love for you to smoke some of the herb me and my east coast peeps are growing so you could see what I mean.I mean who is gonna have better herb, the 20 man crew in a 100k warehouse working on salary growing chemically produced improperly cured Philip Morris type herb or the 5-10k rooms run by mom and pop type peeps who treat ganja cultivation like a religion and pour over every nuance of every plant.Not trying to be negative man I love it here I'm never going back to the hell hole I got out of and I have smoked some of the best herb of my life out here grown by people that obviously know what the hell they are doing and have been for 30 plus years now.No disrespect to Cali at all.I just think top quality deserves top dollar and I kinda feel the clubs should have a better way of discerning the bullshit people sell as bomb from the real thing.Maybe they just don't care.

 

[Hydrosun]

Your distinction is with out a DIFFERENCE. If you grow cannabis SCHEDULE 1 then you do. If you believe that makes you a criminal then you are in agreement with the federal government. If you don't believe that makes you a criminal then you DISAGREE with the federal government.

From there what you do with your CANNABIS is your business and you are STILL a criminal in the eyes of the FEDS, but NEVER in my eyes.

 

[303hydro]

SOON...

the new thcless cannabis is here..the pollen will be spread by planes...

here is the real threat...

link.http://www.gwpharm.com/Cultivation.aspx




the gene at locus O allows the production of the initial phenolic precursors (resorcinolic acids). These combine with geranyl pyrophosphate to create the intermediate cannabinoids CBG and/or CBGV, the central precursors for the end-product cannabinoids THC(V), CBD(V) and CBC(V). The functional allele O is co-dominant; O/o hybrids have a low cannabinoid content and o/o plants are cannabinoid-free.

The ratio of propyl- and pentyl cannabinoid precursors is determined by a postulated locus A, which is still under investigation.
The CBG/CBGV intermediate is further processed by the alleles of locus B. BD and BT are co-dominant; the BD gene converts CBG(V) into CBD(V) and the BT gene converts CBG(V) into THC(V). In the BD/BT genotype, codominance allows the expression of a mixed CBD/THC chemotype. Also at this locus, non-functional alleles, designated B0 can exist; these are unable to convert the CBG(V) intermediate and leave the plant with a CBG(V) predominant chemotype.

Locus C is fixed so all plants have CBC synthase activity. CBC synthase competes for the same CBG(V) precursor as the synthases encoded by locus B (THC and/or CBD synthase). In 'normal' Cannabis plants, CBC synthase is only active in the juvenile state. However, our scientists have discovered genetic factors that induce morphological mutations that are associated with a 'prolonged juvenile chemotype'. Prototype CBC production plants carry these factors in combination with B0/B0 at locus B. In these plants CBC synthase has no competition from THC or CBD synthase.

Had a friend who just got back from Hawaii saying that Monsanto has some huge complex out there where they are working with cannabis - probably something fucked up like this. If no one has seen the movei " what in the world are they spraying " then you should watch it, fucked up shit.

 

[zenoonez]

IMO, the old company store left with workers rights. But we've still got it in the form of ColorTime, Rent-A Center, etc. They're only tied to the employer when the truck stops at work to collect from the employee.

But if the company store charged me less markup than the next capitalist system would, I'd have more economic freedom with the company store. After all, Rent-A-Center etc lobby to charge higher interest rates (and always will.)

I will reflect what I feel is similarity in government and business. It's the people that make it up, respectively. They've got alternative, often polar interests. That's why I scrutinize most of the info I get from either side. I don't always get the correct answers or the big picture yet often find ad sales media to be the most questionable info of all.

Greenspan was a decades long fan of Ayn Rand and free markets. After the systemic nature of the pre-bust housing frenzy, Greenspan admitted the idea of free markets is only as good as the people that seek short term gain at the expense of long term stability. In other words, checks are necessary to prevent exploitation of markets. I just hate he waited until he was old as Methuselah to admit publicly.

Amazing debate going on here between you two. Truly inspiring to see two minds coming together to hash out ideas in such a way. I am indeed torn between the two of you. While the idealist in me supports the idea of a flat tax, the realist in me recognizes that the big business lobby will find a way to buy the system or work it to their advantage in the same way that they have bought our government. I think all of us would agree that the American government has basically ceased to act in accordance with the wellbeing of the vast majority of Americans and no longer aim their goal at helping maximize the freedom and wellbeing of Americans but instead aims their goal at whatever the powerful Washington lobbies tell them to. Because of this I can not in good conscience support the actual establishment of a flat tax system unless the prerogative of Washington in general is seriously changed. Acceptance of a flat tax system would be a concession by middle and lower income earners in our country and I don't honestly believe that corporations and highly wealthy individuals would bear the same brunt under the leadership of the same Washington community that has systematically sold out the American people since the 80s. Anyways, just wanted to throw my meager two cents into this incredible debate.

 

[trichrome101]

Uhmmmm.... if you believe there are/were more pot shops in LA than Starbucks you are very gullible indeed. Who needs to Google it to see that for what it is? A lie.
line!!

the starbucks thing isnt too far off base L.A. had over 2000 shops at one point 2 yrs ago.that is more than starbuck coffee.I know i live there.and this is somthing to consider,the average price per lb in cali has dropped to arround 2000 per,yet the same people are still selling the 2000 lb for 40 an eighth,thats over 4 g a pound,so tell me somthing who is really getting ripped off

 

[supermanlives]

they just raised the bar a little. if you aint getting 3200 or better . refine your growing skills and strains.DAVESNOTHERE edit. if you aint getting what you want than your probably growing truckloads LOL. may i suggest as you probably have become a marijuana master at growing you next need to master marketing. this can be learned even in school. if you grow more than i weigh each run than i dont know what to tell ya the bubble has burse for ya. i hope your overhead is low and your freezers are large . good luck