When do you apply your ferts? Weekly or every-time-you-water?

[Budley Doright]

I thought urea nitrogen was a fast release form of nitrogen. I thought that only when it was coated -sulfer/polymer etc - was it slow release...? Maybe I am confused here, I don't know. lol

From the web....

Nitrogen in the form of ammonium (including urea) is not available to plants until it is converted to nitrate by soil bacteria in a process called nitrification. In warm soil, most of the ammonia is nitrified in two or three weeks, so there is a release of available nitrogen over that period. This does not mean that nitrogen all take 3 weeks to release. It means that the conversion takes time to complete (the mircobes can only do a bit every day).
Ammonia nitrogen has the chemical formular NH4+ (N-H-Four plus) which means that it is a positive charged nitrogen molecule.

 

[Dave Coulier]

Dave, thanks for the info on fertigation.
What is the best way to monitor EC levels in soil?

Yes, I use 1/8 tsp per gallon of water at every watering during the veg and flower stage...adjusting according to the requirements of the strain. I'm still trying to find the "sweet spot" with this AK47 x Blueberry.

Your welcome ISM2. I myself use a Hanna Suction Lysimeter. Its a super simple tool that allows you to extract soil solution samples. I then use my Bluelab Combo Meter to monitor EC,PPM, and pH on a daily basis. I use 2 lysimeters, and I rotate them around my plants. I had a third but the finger clamp broke on it. I need to get a 4th and another clamp. Once you get one and use it, believe me you'll want more.

Those daily values along with inspecting the plants for nutritional deficiencies allows me to quickly dial in what my plants like and what they dont like.

 

[Dave Coulier]

I fert almost every time ...I gen end up using the rates recommended for foliar...I started doing this long ago when I had lots of diff crops/grows and lacked proper record keeping...works fine no issues....and I can be as stoned as I want ....yeehaw

+1 to that. Before I even read your post, I was thinking I prefer fertigation, over alternating with water only because I could never remember if I had given water or nutrients the prior time. So I said fuck it and looked into fertigation and have been happier since, and like you said, I can be as stoned as I want and I wont forget to feed.

 

[Budley Doright]

I fert almost every time ...I gen end up using the rates recommended for foliar...I started doing this long ago when I had lots of diff crops/grows and lacked proper record keeping...works fine no issues....and I can be as stoned as I want ....yeehaw

I feed every time I water.... because its in a barrel and I like it that way...


I was the sick plants mentor on Overgrow.,...

I saw lots of folks who simply put... have a fear of feeding.....


They would go out and spend a bunch of cash on expensive potting mixes... with all kinds of 'stuff' in it.....

good luck staying in control...

A better solution in my opinion.....


an inert medium....


And a bottle of ferts for grow.....



and one for flowering.....

 

[Dave Coulier]

Im a label guy..

And the label for the 15-30-15....

first of all the nitrogen source is urea..... bad idea for what you are doing.....

For multiple reasons.....

The urea takes some time to break down ....and become available to the plants.....

YOu cant easily control Nitrogen to the plant.......

Your fert also isnt a complete fert..... it lacks a very important element..... magnesium


at the very least you should add a bit of epsoms salt....


I also like to fertigate the same amount every feeding....however I make sure the fertilizer is...

1. a complete fert

2. as a nitrogen source it contains at least 95% nitrate N....... nitrate is immediately available to the plant....


I dont know how long you have been using this fert but IMO you should find something more suitable.....

Nitrogen that comes from urea .....is so you dont have to fertilize frequently..... Think time release N.....,.

Its more likely a disaster in the making than a long term success......


Im not really in the Im in the miracle grow tastes bad clan...... im in the .....you dont use urea based ferts indoors...clan ....

Burntrope, I can't stand idly by while you slander Urea. Ive used it many times in my garden without ill effects, and some of what you posted about it is stretching the truth too far.

Urea is not as slow at becoming plant available as you think. In soil at 20C it only takes 1 day for the Urea to breakdown into Ammonium, which allows the plant to uptake N rather quickly from applied Urea. After that, the conversion time from Ammonium to Nitrate is a week. Meanwhile Ammonium is readily uptaken by roots and used for root growth, while the Nitrate form of N is translocated to the plants crown.

Ive used a 50/50 mix and a 60/40 Urea:Nitrate mix for controlling media pH often times before with good success. Even so far as using the 60/40 mix on seedlings only a few days old so I could study how well the Urea controlled the media pH over a 3 week span. The plants grew healthy and fine and stayed pretty close to my desired pH range. If I had used 95%Nitrate N, my media pH would rise too high, especially if you combine it with RO water.

Sorry to be so long winded, but Urea is a widely used fertilizer around the world and I hate to see it so maligned. It seems to have a very negative rap in the mmj field because people dont understand it well. Nitrogen already has a bad enough rap as it is and its the most used nutrient by the plant. Even mention Urea and most growers react like its garlic to a vampire.

 

[Budley Doright]

Burntrope, I can't stand idly by while you slander Urea. Ive used it many times in my garden without ill effects, and some of what you posted about it is stretching the truth too far.

Urea is not as slow at becoming plant available as you think. In soil at 20C it only takes 1 day for the Urea to breakdown into Ammonium, which allows the plant to uptake N rather quickly from applied Urea. After that, the conversion time from Ammonium to Nitrate is a week. Meanwhile Ammonium is readily uptaken by roots and used for root growth, while the Nitrate form of N is translocated to the plants crown.

Ive used a 50/50 mix and a 60/40 Urea:Nitrate mix for controlling media pH often times before with good success. Even so far as using the 60/40 mix on seedlings only a few days old so I could study how well the Urea controlled the media pH over a 3 week span. The plants grew healthy and fine and stayed pretty close to my desired pH range. If I had used 95%Nitrate N, my media pH would rise too high, especially if you combine it with RO water.

Sorry to be so long winded, but Urea is a widely used fertilizer around the world and I hate to see it so maligned. It seems to have a very negative rap in the mmj field because people dont understand it well. Nitrogen already has a bad enough rap as it is and its the most used nutrient by the plant. Even mention Urea and most growers react like its garlic to a vampire.

Here is what I said...


Im not really in the Im in the miracle grow tastes bad clan...... im in the .....you dont use urea based ferts indoors...clan ....

I dont disagree with your comments....


If you go to the hydro store you will rarely see urea in the label


If it is....Its a very minor source

 

[Budley Doright]

Meanwhile Ammonium is readily uptaken by roots and used for root growth, while the Nitrate form of N is translocated to the plants crown.

=======================


I dont know if this is true or not....

But my ferts are 100% nitrate....


and the last time I checked they all had roots......


Guaranteed Analysis

Total Nitrogen (N) 5%
5% Nitrate Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5) 12%
Soluble Potash (K2O) 26%
Magnesium (Mg) 6.32%
6.32% water soluble magnesium (Mg)

Boron (B) 0.05%
Copper (Cu) 0.015%
0.015% Chelated Copper (Cu)
Iron (Fe) 0.3%
0.3% Chelated Iron (Fe)
Manganese (Mn) 0.05%
0.05% Chelated Manganese (Mn)
Molybdenum (Mo) 0.01%
Zinc (Zn) 0.015%


==============================


This is the base fert...

It also requires the use Of calcium NITRATE.....

 

[ISM2]

ISM2 - is there a reason you are using miracle grow, as opposed to something like that "Lucas" formula? I'd recommend getting yourself a better nutrient. Check out that Lucas formula. Very very simple to use. It calls for General Hydroponics brand liquid or dry nutrients.

I'm using MG because it's easy and available. It is my intro into soil growing, and it was the first place to start.
I have some GH nutes leftover from the hydro setup. Think I'll do some experiments with MG vs Lucas Formula. When using the Lucas Formula, do you water with it every time you water - aka Fertigation.

 

[EclipseFour20]

.... Problem with organic grown products is there full of shit most of the time

I would think the "full of shit" complication is a result of the "cultivator" not doing his job--as opposed to an "organic input" not doing it's job (shit accumulation).

Which is the point of my post--know the breakdown time of your inputs. Why add something if there is not enough time for the input to breakdown and do it's job. Like I said, IMHO, it is a pure waste of time/money to add something that late in the game.

BTW...very few "organic inputs" are actually "shit", most are actually elements/minerals that are absent of all traces of "poo". I incorporate over 90 naturally occurring elements found on earth in my garden...how many elements are found in your synthetic/chems? Maybe 16 to 21 at the most? Maybe comparing this with colors/bits is more meaningful....which spectrum of colors are "better" for digital pics? 16 bit, 32 bit, 64 bit, 128 bit, 256 bit, 512 bit, etc...get the picture? Fewer elements equates to low spectrum....greater the elements--greater the color spectrum.

And that's "no shit"!

 

[Dave Coulier]

Meanwhile Ammonium is readily uptaken by roots and used for root growth, while the Nitrate form of N is translocated to the plants crown.

=======================


I dont know if this is true or not....

But my ferts are 100% nitrate....


and the last time I checked they all had roots......


Guaranteed Analysis

Total Nitrogen (N) 5%
5% Nitrate Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5) 12%
Soluble Potash (K2O) 26%
Magnesium (Mg) 6.32%
6.32% water soluble magnesium (Mg)

Boron (B) 0.05%
Copper (Cu) 0.015%
0.015% Chelated Copper (Cu)
Iron (Fe) 0.3%
0.3% Chelated Iron (Fe)
Manganese (Mn) 0.05%
0.05% Chelated Manganese (Mn)
Molybdenum (Mo) 0.01%
Zinc (Zn) 0.015%


==============================


This is the base fert...

It also requires the use Of calcium NITRATE.....

Of course you can still grow healthy roots with mostly Nitrate N. I never meant to imply it did not, and I think you know this.

ABSTRACT

We examined the effect of soil NH4+ and NO3− content upon the root systems of field-grown tomatoes, and the influence of constant, low concentrations of NH4+ or NO3− upon root growth in solution culture. In two field experiments, few roots were present in soil zones with low extractable NH4+ or NO3−; they increased to a maximum in zones having 2μg-N NO3− g−1 soil and 6 μg-N NO3= g−1 soil, but decreased in zones having higher NH4+ or NO3− levels. Root branching was relatively insensitive to available mineral nitrogen. Plants maintained in solution culture at constant levels of NH4+ or NO3−, had similar shoot biomass, but all root parameters – biomass, length, branching and area – were greater under NH4 nutrition than under NO3−. These results suggest that the size of root system depends on a functional equilibrium between roots and shoots (Brouwer 1967) and on the balance between soil NH4+ and NO3−.



BLOOM, A. J., JACKSON, L. E. and SMART, D. R. (1993), Root growth as a function of ammonium and nitrate in the root zone. Plant, Cell & Environment, 16: 199–206. doi: 10.1111/j.1365-3040.1993.tb00861.x

I encourage you and everyone else to pick up some urea and do some experimenting. If any of you have ever struggled with media pH drifting too high, Urea could be your savior. Plus it likely will have some great benefit for your roots.