What's your go-to breeder nowadays?

[Orange's Greenhouse]

I hate to preach for myself but I run packs after packs with my crew and find winners every pack.

Since you put yourself in the spotlight I think it's fair to point this out.

Isn't what you said the definition of unstable lines?
When you buy any other seed, be it heirloom tomatoes or high productivity wheat, you get uniform expression for a very small price.
With your material you even say yourself that only select few in each pack are worth their money. And with 50 € for your pack, 10 plants to grow to find something worthwhile (costs 500 €) and all the time required to do the work a breeder is supposed to do.
That is some expensive seed!

And be honest. How much breeding is actually going on? You have 50-100 strains on offer. Any breeder, working with anything else than cannabis, laughs you out of the door if you have anything less than 200 plants (per line!). And it takes years to stabilize a line.

 

[ojd]

Since you put yourself in the spotlight I think it's fair to point this out.

Isn't what you said the definition of unstable lines?
When you buy any other seed, be it heirloom tomatoes or high productivity wheat, you get uniform expression for a very small price.
With your material you even say yourself that only select few in each pack are worth their money. And with 50 € for your pack, 10 plants to grow to find something worthwhile (costs 500 €) and all the time required to do the work a breeder is supposed to do.
That is some expensive seed!

And be honest. How much breeding is actually going on? You have 50-100 strains on offer. Any breeder, working with anything else than cannabis, laughs you out of the door if you have anything less than 200 plants (per line!). And it takes years to stabilize a line.

My hybrid lines are as stable as any breeder who make hybrids.

Also a tomato line has been bred over decades and inbred , what we do is brand new tomato breeds and you cant compare landrace strains to todays strains , like you cant compare todays strains of fruits and vegetables to Original tomato or carrot breeds from Original they are very different and vegetables today are new hybrids and Original vegetables pure bred.


A hybrid you will get multiple phenos , Mother , father/Reversed and mixed phenos , same as any other breeders who makes hybrids.
I also offer F2's and S2's for people looking for specific strain/pheno worked to, less variation than a hybrid.

A stable strain at say F4 plus starts working into the specific pheno that breeder is working towards, when buying a hybrid customer want to see some of both strain in lineage, not only 1 phenotype ?.
Breeders offer F2 onwards for the worked line.
But alot of my breeding uses 2 very special phenos/clones and I want to see some of both, or even bother phenos available so if buying say Grandaddy Purple Haze you get the GDP pheno and the Haze pheno and the perfect mix pheno, customers pick the specific pheno they prefer and run with that clone .
The more wise people they will get 2 winners even 3 a pack sometimes showing very different sides of the hybrid like I said before, Mother, Father and mixed pheno.

 

[DaEarl73]

People complaining about prices all the time! If someone has the money to buy seeds and time and space to hunt through a pack, they shall do it or not. You can find gold in pirate packs or bulk too, or bagseeds. If you buy packs from people that don’t lie what they used in creating new cultivars, it can always be worth it. If you start a company and want to be different and more special than others, you should hunt through multiple packs and not just buy elite clones, because everyone can do that and you just offer what already exists

 

[nepalnt21]

do some research and you will find that dubi is a well known liar.

i don't think ace ever said N.C. was a "landrace", it's just a common word used to describe heirloom types sometimes... are there ANY true landraces left?

even the ones that grow wild can be the same or hybridize with local cultivated varieties.

but you're also being massively, needlessly pedantic about a common term.

AND you're accusing dubi of lying about new caledonia being a landrace when i'm not even convinced he said that... even so, would it be a lie? or a case of the community using a term loosely?

also, how many companies do you know that publish cannabinoid and terp analyses on their strains?

i think dubi is pretty transparent, but i'm willing to read some evidence you have of him lying. you must have good evidence, right?

 

[Orange's Greenhouse]

My hybrid lines are as stable as any breeder who make hybrids.
A hybrid you will get multiple phenos , Mother , father/Reversed and mixed phenos , same as any other breeders who makes hybrids.
I also offer F2's and S2's for people looking for specific strain/pheno less variation

A stable strain at say F4 plus starts working into the specific pheno that breeder is working towards, when buying a hybrid customer want to see some of both strain in lineage, not only 1 phenotype ?.
Breeders offer F2 onwards for the worked line.
But alot of my breeding uses 2 very special phenos/clones and I want to see some of both or even bother phenos available so if buying say Grandaddy Purple Haze you get the GDP pheno and the Haze pheno and the perfect mix pheno, customers pick the specific pheno they prefer and run with that clone .
The more wise people they will get 2 winners even 3 a pack sometimes showing very different sides of the hybrid like I said before, Mother, Father and mixed pheno.

A hybrid is a cross of two different phenotypes. That is the definition of it. It does say nothing about the offspring, their uniformity or whatnot.

If you cross two stable lines you get uniform seeds. That's how the modern, high productivity, commodity seeds are made. Uniform plants, hybrid vigour and predictable results.

What you describe is pollen chucking and putting the real work, selecting good offsprings, stabilizing them, on the customer. How can you call a 2nd or 4th generation line "worked"? Wheat breeders ship their seed stock around the world to get 3 generations per year. They wouldn't bother if three generations are enough.

Just to be clear. I don't doubt that you have good genetics. But the comment you disapproved of said that your lines are unstable. You then said that yourself and just repeated it.

I also offer F2's and S2's for people looking for specific strain locked in.

Please learn some basic genetics before you call yourself a breeder. 160 years ago Mendel published his theory of heredity. The second generation is much more heterogenous than the first. You can even get 'pure' parent plants in the second generation, as if no cross ever happened.

 

[Orange's Greenhouse]

how many companies do you know that publish cannabinoid and terp analyses on their strains?

Just saying, without knowing the analytical methods how they validated them and what the measurenent error is those numbers are pointless.
I have a crystal ball that also produces numbers to put on your strain description.

 

[aCBD]

i don't think ace ever said N.C. was a "landrace", it's just a common word used to describe heirloom types sometimes... are there ANY true landraces left?

even the ones that grow wild can be the same or hybridize with local cultivated varieties.

but you're also being massively, needlessly pedantic about a common term.

AND you're accusing dubi of lying about new caledonia being a landrace when i'm not even convinced he said that... even so, would it be a lie? or a case of the community using a term loosely?

also, how many companies do you know that publish cannabinoid and terp analyses on their strains?

i think dubi is pretty transparent, but i'm willing to read some evidence you have of him lying. you must have good evidence, right?

New Caledonia. Regular seeds. ACE Seeds

New Caledonia regular. New Caledonia seeds. New Caledonia sativa seeds. New Caledonia landrace. pure sativa seeds. 100 % sativa seeds. Pacific seeds. Clean effect. Tropical sativas seeds. Landrace seeds. Landrace strain. Landrace genetics. ACE Seeds.

www.aceseeds.org

there it says landrace.
yes, ace seeds do publish a lot of data which is great.

 

[ojd]

A hybrid is a cross of two different phenotypes. That is the definition of it. It does say nothing about the offspring, their uniformity or whatnot.

If you cross two stable lines you get uniform seeds. That's how the modern, high productivity, commodity seeds are made. Uniform plants, hybrid vigour and predictable results.

What you describe is pollen chucking and putting the real work, selecting good offsprings, stabilizing them, on the customer. How can you call a 2nd or 4th generation line "worked"? Wheat breeders ship their seed stock around the world to get 3 generations per year. They wouldn't bother if three generations are enough.

Just to be clear. I don't doubt that you have good genetics. But the comment you disapproved of said that your lines are unstable. You then said that yourself and just repeated it.



Please learn some basic genetics before you call yourself a breeder. 160 years ago Mendel published his theory of heredity. The second generation is much more heterogenous than the first. You can even get 'pure' parent plants in the second generation, as if no cross ever happened.

You cross any 2 unrelated lines and you won't get stable phenotypes at all ? , you will get an array of phenotype from both sides of family , or sometimes certain strains are extremely dominant so dominate the line .


A poly hybrid will release more phenotypes as more family involved , but will show pheno variation like all other lines unless certain lines is dominating things.

When i say locked in i mean worked towards the same pheno/line , F2-3 onwards working towards a certain pheno or stable line

 

[ojd]

Just saying, without knowing the analytical methods how they validated them and what the measurenent error is those numbers are pointless.
I have a crystal ball that also produces numbers to put on your strain description.

Some breeders got every tool a man could ever want with breeding( legal licence, Gas Chromatography) , but if you got some lame ass tomato don't matter how well you know mendels programme you can't make shit into gold no matter how skilled a breeder or knowledgeable about genetics.



Also all my work is based on taste/High nothing else , I'm a big smoker and tried many varieties over decades and I work with varieties that I find a cut above the rest .
Alot of strains are like you said these days , same bred tomato all looking and tasting the same , like a supermarket cheap tomato, yes loosk great ,zero blemish but don't taste nothing AT ALL like your home grown or organic breed , specific taste, texture etc etc , much more exotic.

Big guys get to.big quality goes down alot of the time when outsourced etc

 

[El Timbo]

A hybrid you will get multiple phenos

The plants from a proper F1 made from 2 stable but distinct lines should be uniform though right?

 

[El Timbo]

New Caledonia. Regular seeds. ACE Seeds

New Caledonia regular. New Caledonia seeds. New Caledonia sativa seeds. New Caledonia landrace. pure sativa seeds. 100 % sativa seeds. Pacific seeds. Clean effect. Tropical sativas seeds. Landrace seeds. Landrace strain. Landrace genetics. ACE Seeds.

www.aceseeds.org

there it says landrace.
yes, ace seeds do publish a lot of data which is great.

Strange that when I click on that link the word "landrace" is nowhere to be seen...

 

[Genghis Kush.]

i don't think ace ever said N.C. was a "landrace", it's just a common word used to describe heirloom types sometimes... are there ANY true landraces left?

even the ones that grow wild can be the same or hybridize with local cultivated varieties.

but you're also being massively, needlessly pedantic about a common term.

AND you're accusing dubi of lying about new caledonia being a landrace when i'm not even convinced he said that... even so, would it be a lie? or a case of the community using a term loosely?

also, how many companies do you know that publish cannabinoid and terp analyses on their strains?

i think dubi is pretty transparent, but i'm willing to read some evidence you have of him lying. you must have good evidence, right?

Its straight up deception.
here is another
“Our Malawi is the most powerful and psychedelic landrace sativa we know of.’
it’s actually a multi hybrid

 

[FTL]

My favourite breeder at the mo is big meech genetics, Most spot on cat pissy terps I’ve ever come across

 

[shiva82]

sungold cherry tomatoes for example, are only named sungold as an f1 . they are orange in colour , and sweet.

 

[TrifektaSeeds]

@Orange's Greenhouse what you claim is spot on and on the money indeed but don't try to hold OJD or any other pollen chucker to those ideals
OJD or any other breeder are just doing the same, non of them are special.
The only thing that is an advantage with those breeders is you know the cut they used came from a legit source, still, that don't mean even 1% on growing results in the end.

@ojd
When bodhi packs cost 40-45 usd on average, and we know bodhi uses elite cuts, there's no reason to pay a cent above that (even that is a bit steep for a untested F1 with a male)
But it's reasonable.

Imo,
The F1 chuck em and forget em market is done for, 10-20 usd is the most I'm paying for a F1 cross, no matter how elite your parents are.
people are understanding the game has shifted and no one will let them access an elite seed stock easy and cheap
Breeders know the first step to under cutting their business is pumping out stable S1 and F1, in the past that didn't pose such a threat as it was illegal and the probability of someone using your work to make their own brand was low and didn't matter so much
Now everyone can own a farm and pump seeds and buds like no tomorrow.

 

[ojd]

@Orange's Greenhouse what you claim is spot on and on the money indeed but don't try to hold OJD or any other pollen chucker to those ideals
OJD or any other breeder are just doing the same, non of them are special.
The only thing that is an advantage with those breeders is you know the cut they used came from a legit source, still, that don't mean even 1% on growing results in the end.

@ojd
When bodhi packs cost 40-45 usd on average, and we know bodhi uses elite cuts, there's no reason to pay a cent above that (even that is a bit steep for a untested F1 with a male)
But it's reasonable.

Imo,
The F1 chuck em and forget em market is done for, 10-20 usd is the most I'm paying for a F1 cross, no matter how elite your parents are.
people are understanding the game has shifted and no one will let them access an elite seed stock easy and cheap
Breeders know the first step to under cutting their business is pumping out stable S1 and F1, in the past that didn't pose such a threat as it was illegal and the probability of someone using your work to make their own brand was low and didn't matter so much
Now everyone can own a farm and pump seeds and buds like no tomorrow.

Bro , the market is open for all you guys to start up and offer $20 seed packs , there plenty of room for breeders like that , but GUARANTEED your price will start to work higher the more your in the game , as cost has sky rocketed these days even just electric alone has put me and many people i know who actual pay the electric bill in hard a spot( 1 room can cost me $5k just in electric these days) let alone rent, nutes , labour etc etc.

I still think my packs are reasonably priced and like I say I expect you find something nice from just 1 pack ( if your want the Grail pheno obviously multiple packs like a Tom Hill Haze 100 pack pop )

 

[TrifektaSeeds]

I don't need to offer 10-20 usd packs, much much people already do it
Most of the seeds I get are free from people all over the world
10-20$ I'll pay if I like you and your work haha
But to pay 100$ for untested unstable F1 cross ? Yawn
I think I'll pass, I don't pay those amounts for chances anymore, show me solid work being done to those crosses and I'll give you 100$ for 1 seed, not a pack.
Even when I asked you in PM what strains you hold dearly, what strains are potent from your line ups you don't have answeres
And I know why, because you barley grow your lines.
You said it, not me. you grow 1-2 packs from each line, maybe.
So how can a breeder establish an opinion on their work let alone their customers ?
The work is all over the place, many variations, again, you said it not me
This is not what growers want.
When I buy GDP I want what GDP stand for, not a pale shadow of something that resembles GDP
Growing weed is not poker, you can stable the odds, something most breeders just choose not to do
The old variety vs quality again and again
Do I hold 200 seeds lines worth shit or 5 lines that pump fire ?
Do I bring 6 quality fruits to my store or 30 kinds of trash quality fruits so I could have selection
No problem with both ways, there's demend for both, but everyone seems to go the high variety no quality route, and that got things outta balance.

Times are changing, demend for untested chucks will reach 0 once some other people pick up their game and start pumping consistent fire.
The market is saturated with these crosses
Do something different..
Maybe maybe those breeders can do the work they supposed to do as breeders ?
Just a suggestion ...

My plants sometimes create seeds while I sleep, so just making seeds is not doing the work, no.

 

[DaEarl73]

You can just buy cheap birdseeds, rename , pack them nice, sponsor the forum and sell them or buy elite clones s1 them and get rich hahahaha people buy what they want, if it’s just 20 a pack they may think they are inferior hahahaha and people like also to buy bullshit, that’s what we like in capitalism. Offer them what they want and react fast to change if you want to make fast money or cross what you like and hope can be a nice outcome and actually like what you’re doing. What I want to say, the market is big and there’s a lot of space for everyone! We give the worth to things and money stinks! Big meech for the win like ftl said! Have a nice one! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artist's_Shit

 

[Orange's Greenhouse]

Bro , the market is open for all you guys to start up and offer $20 seed packs , there plenty of room for breeders like that , but GUARANTEED your price will start to work higher the more your in the game , as cost has sky rocketed these days even just electric alone has put me and many people i know who actual pay the electric bill in hard a spot( 1 room can cost me $5k just in electric these days) let alone rent, nutes , labour etc etc.

I still think my packs are reasonably priced and like I say I expect you find something nice from just 1 pack ( if your want the Grail pheno obviously multiple packs like a Tom Hill Haze 100 pack pop )

Your problem is that you expect high returns. A normal business has 5 % profit. To make a living one million euro revenue per year is not uncommon.

A single seed for 5 € is a ripoff by any standards that excludes black market profitability.

 

[ojd]

I don't need to offer 10-20 usd packs, much much people already do it
Most of the seeds I get are free from people all over the world
10-20$ I'll pay if I like you and your work haha
But to pay 100$ for untested unstable F1 cross ? Yawn
I think I'll pass, I don't pay those amounts for chances anymore, show me solid work being done to those crosses and I'll give you 100$ for 1 seed, not a pack.
Even when I asked you in PM what strains you hold dearly, what strains are potent from your line ups you don't have answeres
And I know why, because you barley grow your lines.
You said it, not me. you grow 1-2 packs from each line, maybe.
So how can a breeder establish an opinion on their work let alone their customers ?
The work is all over the place, many variations, again, you said it not me
This is not what growers want.
When I buy GDP I want what GDP stand for, not a pale shadow of something that resembles GDP
Growing weed is not poker, you can stable the odds, something most breeders just choose not to do
The old variety vs quality again and again
Do I hold 200 seeds lines worth shit or 5 lines that pump fire ?
Do I bring 6 quality fruits to my store or 30 kinds of trash quality fruits so I could have selection
No problem with both ways, there's demend for both, but everyone seems to go the high variety no quality route, and that got things outta balance.

Times are changing, demend for untested chucks will reach 0 once some other people pick up their game and start pumping consistent fire.
The market is saturated with these crosses
Do something different..
Maybe maybe those breeders can do the work they supposed to do as breeders ?
Just a suggestion ...

My plants sometimes create seeds while I sleep, so just making seeds is not doing the work, no.

There so many of you guys on the forums these days all spout same breeze, all joined up a year or 2 ago max ( how many of these accounts are same guy ? , as we know i got a pack of trolls who follow me around , thanks , helps me wake up an hour ealier to ride the troll train) and where you been last 10 or 20 years like some of us ? , you would of seen all the breeze you doubt being done online for everyone else to see being done.

Like many well known online players who been around last 20 years have seen me work along the way and can vouch for me.
Anyone who looks at my stocklist can see I work my own strains alot and use them for projects etc and use my work more than anything else to work more projects.
My projects are based of legendary clone onlys or legendary strains/lines and worked further or in my own direction and further projects created.
I run through many many strains each year and focus on certain projects.


I grow strain after strain from my projects every year