What's the best way to do a pheno hunt/seed selection?

[lush]

Hi,

I hope this topic is in the correct category

I'm about to do a relatively big seed run (100-120 seeds). My goal is to find a handful of the best keepers to continue with. I have around 35-40 seed packs of 5-6 fem seeds each.

I have several questions:

1. Would you flower the moms (original seed plants) and keep the off-spring for future mothers OR flower the clones? If the former, would you say it's a bad idea to take the top as a clone, because it'll reduce the yield and won't let me see how the plants grow untopped (since I don't usually top plants)?
2. Would you start a little bit of each pack and add 1-2 of seeds in each OR start fewer packs fully?
3. If I decide to start the second half of the seeds, would you do it right after the first run OR wait a few months after I have had some time to properly test the first cohort?
4. Any other tips/advice?

Thanks

 

[revegeta666]

C

Hi,

I hope this topic is in the correct category

I'm about to do a relatively big seed run (100-120 seeds). My goal is to find a handful of the best keepers to continue with. I have around 35-40 seed packs of 5-6 fem seeds each.

I have several questions:

1. Would you flower the moms (original seed plants) and keep the off-spring for future mothers OR flower the clones? If the former, would you say it's a bad idea to take the top as a clone, because it'll reduce the yield and won't let me see how the plants grow untopped (since I don't usually top plants)?
2. Would you start a little bit of each pack and add 1-2 of seeds in each OR start fewer packs fully?
3. If I decide to start the second half of the seeds, would you do it right after the first run OR wait a few months after I have had some time to properly test the first cohort?
4. Any other tips/advice?

Thanks

Cool! I have never grown that many plants, I hope you document it here on the forum!

Just an idea - First of all I would flower the plants, and keep the clones. But that many clones is going to be such a pain in the ass, maybe you can consider taking the clones in the 2nd-3rd week of flower. That way, the clones will stay small much longer, because they will need around a month to reverse from flowering to vegging. They will still root though. As a bonus it would be a first stress test and you would probably be able to discard a portion of the clones if they herm (most shouldn't). If you take the clones in flower, you will also be able to take a lower branch, because they will have stretched and you won't be forced to use the top.

 

[lush]

C

Cool! I have never grown that many plants, I hope you document it here on the forum!

Just an idea - First of all I would flower the plants, and keep the clones. But that many clones is going to be such a pain in the ass, maybe you can consider taking the clones in the 2nd-3rd week of flower. That way, the clones will stay small much longer, because they will need around a month to reverse from flowering to vegging. They will still root though. As a bonus it would be a first stress test and you would probably be able to discard a portion of the clones if they herm (most shouldn't). If you take the clones in flower, you will also be able to take a lower branch, because they will have stretched and you won't be forced to use the top.

Thanks revegeta.

Isn't all this reverting/revegging going to affect the genetics in a weird, lasting way? I've tried to reveg a flowered plant and I remember it grew weird for a long time. I am reading about genetic drift and see lots of opinions in both directions.

Otherwise I like the idea, I'll consider it.

I sometimes wonder if I should do a couple of seed runs without bothering with taking any clones, and then narrow the strains I like and buy big amount of few types for an actual hunt.

 

[revegeta666]

Thanks revegeta.

Isn't all this reverting/revegging going to affect the genetics in a weird, lasting way? I've tried to reveg a flowered plant and I remember it grew weird for a long time. I am reading about genetic drift and see lots of opinions in both directions.

Otherwise I like the idea, I'll consider it.

I sometimes wonder if I should do a couple of seed runs without bothering with taking any clones, and then narrow the strains I like and buy big amount of few types for an actual hunt.

They are going to grow weird for a while but it won't affect them long term. This is standard practice in Spain and for some of my friends it's their standard way to keep plants long term. Revegged clones also have the advantage of throwing tons of branches so you can easily give them an optimal structure before putting them to flower.

People talk about genetic drift, even when the plants haven't been revegged. Like you take the clone of a clone of a clone and supposedly it loses quality over time. I personally think genetic drift is bullshit because I have never kept big moms and I take a new cut from them every 3-4 months and use that as the new mom and never had any issues or noticed anything different at all.

Doing a couple of runs without keeping clones should be less stressful but if afterwards you taste one of the plants and iyou find it's sepcial, you will kick yourself for not keeping it such is life.

 

[lush]

They are going to grow weird for a while but it won't affect them long term. This is standard practice in Spain and for some of my friends it's their standard way to keep plants long term. Revegged clones also have the advantage of throwing tons of branches so you can easily give them an optimal structure before putting them to flower.

People talk about genetic drift, even when the plants haven't been revegged. Like you take the clone of a clone of a clone and supposedly it loses quality over time. I personally think genetic drift is bullshit because I have never kept big moms and I take a new cut from them every 3-4 months and use that as the new mom and never had any issues or noticed anything different at all.

Doing a couple of runs without keeping clones should be less stressful but if afterwards you taste one of the plants and iyou find it's sepcial, you will kick yourself for not keeping it such is life.

What do you think of the idea of both keeping the clones in the fridge (so as not to waste space/time with meh plants) and reveg the original plants, as 2 ways to ensure you can preserve the genetics?

 

[Lester Beans]

Flower the clones. Once the clones root go directly to flower.

 

[Nannymouse]

I sort of lean to the opinion that the clones should be the ones flowered, if you are doing indoor, and your mom plant was grown from seed. Also, if you plant to keep your mom plant smaller, i would also save an extra clone for your possible future mother plant. In effect, grow from seed, take two or more clones and ditch the plant that was grown from seed.

The reason that i say to do that is: plants from seed can flower at a much later time than a clone. So, if you want to know when the clones will finish, you probably won't know that by flowering the seed-grown plant. Easier to keep a clone happy in a smaller container, than a seed-grown plant with all that tap root.

I've done quite a bit of re-vegging. It takes forever, ha. But, i don't think that a well-managed re-veg does any harm to the plant. Yes, it does look 'mutated', but that is just the way that it is protecting itself, i think. I've seen a few plants that look like the plant pulls the leaves around itself, almost looks like you caught it naked and it is trying to 'cover' itself from modesty(some trees do this naturally to protect from winter winds, i don't think of what the plants are going through is a 'mutation'). And then when it finally adjusts to switching back to veg, and has grown out again, it is good as new. I think that the record that i attained was re-vegging a mom four times.

I also don't think that taking clones from clones hurts anything, if there's no disease involved along the way. But that doesn't usually just affect the re-vegging moms or clones-from-clones, you'll probably see evidence of that in the other plants, too. It's just that there is a healing process and some stress time that needs to be considered a 'tender moment'. (sort of like how i need to be extra careful when it's hay fever time of the year, cuz i'm under some allergy stress and not at my usual super-mouse resistance levels) Re-vegging's negatives for me, are the extra time, space, and labor...taking clones and getting them rooting is far easier for those gifted with the 'green thumb of cloning'.

Now, if i were to be growing outdoors, i might want all of my outdoor plants to have a taproot, and if i had to go all winter waiting for the taproot plant to reveg...maybe that would be the best. This may all depend a lot on the strain/strains being used. Lots of variable stuff to consider.

About the packs and numbers in the packs to do...one big thing to consider is that if you want a variety off the bat, you will have so many plants that have their different preferences. So, you have to either cater to their individual whims (which would involve quite a lot of growing experience) or grow them all in a manner that you prefer and will be consistent with, and see which ones do the best in that environment.

Cannot tell you what is best for you. Dunno if i'll ever be able to grow again, and i'm old, so how much time i would have to piddle around testing everything, might also factor into what i would do. Hindsight, for me, would be that i would probably have been better off having a proven consistant method, instead of trying different stuff every darn time. Even that is hard to do, with lighting technology changes. I may have done better going hydroponic instead of trying to navigate the changes and changes in availability of the soils, etc.

I've never taken in cuttings. Now this has caused me to regret not tasting every elite clone out there. I just read so many angry people that had grows trashed from bringing in 'things'.

 

[lush]

I sort of lean to the opinion that the clones should be the ones flowered, if you are doing indoor, and your mom plant was grown from seed. Also, if you plant to keep your mom plant smaller, i would also save an extra clone for your possible future mother plant. In effect, grow from seed, take two or more clones and ditch the plant that was grown from seed.

The reason that i say to do that is: plants from seed can flower at a much later time than a clone. So, if you want to know when the clones will finish, you probably won't know that by flowering the seed-grown plant. Easier to keep a clone happy in a smaller container, than a seed-grown plant with all that tap root.

I've done quite a bit of re-vegging. It takes forever, ha. But, i don't think that a well-managed re-veg does any harm to the plant. Yes, it does look 'mutated', but that is just the way that it is protecting itself, i think. I've seen a few plants that look like the plant pulls the leaves around itself, almost looks like you caught it naked and it is trying to 'cover' itself from modesty(some trees do this naturally to protect from winter winds, i don't think of what the plants are going through is a 'mutation'). And then when it finally adjusts to switching back to veg, and has grown out again, it is good as new. I think that the record that i attained was re-vegging a mom four times.

I also don't think that taking clones from clones hurts anything, if there's no disease involved along the way. But that doesn't usually just affect the re-vegging moms or clones-from-clones, you'll probably see evidence of that in the other plants, too. It's just that there is a healing process and some stress time that needs to be considered a 'tender moment'. (sort of like how i need to be extra careful when it's hay fever time of the year, cuz i'm under some allergy stress and not at my usual super-mouse resistance levels) Re-vegging's negatives for me, are the extra time, space, and labor...taking clones and getting them rooting is far easier for those gifted with the 'green thumb of cloning'.

Now, if i were to be growing outdoors, i might want all of my outdoor plants to have a taproot, and if i had to go all winter waiting for the taproot plant to reveg...maybe that would be the best. This may all depend a lot on the strain/strains being used. Lots of variable stuff to consider.

About the packs and numbers in the packs to do...one big thing to consider is that if you want a variety off the bat, you will have so many plants that have their different preferences. So, you have to either cater to their individual whims (which would involve quite a lot of growing experience) or grow them all in a manner that you prefer and will be consistent with, and see which ones do the best in that environment.

Cannot tell you what is best for you. Dunno if i'll ever be able to grow again, and i'm old, so how much time i would have to piddle around testing everything, might also factor into what i would do. Hindsight, for me, would be that i would probably have been better off having a proven consistant method, instead of trying different stuff every darn time. Even that is hard to do, with lighting technology changes. I may have done better going hydroponic instead of trying to navigate the changes and changes in availability of the soils, etc.

I've never taken in cuttings. Now this has caused me to regret not tasting every elite clone out there. I just read so many angry people that had grows trashed from bringing in 'things'.

Thanks a lot man, I appreciate the thoroughness.

Many good points. I'm not sure about the idea of taking 1-2 clones and ditching the original plant. I can understand where you're coming from but it seems I'm loosing 3-4 weeks time to not the much benefit... Correct me if you think I'm wrong

So far I lean towards flowering the original plant, taking a clones and refrigerating it for future rooting, and reveg as a back up.

Thanks again.

 

[Lester Beans]

You don't have to toss the original. Keep it for clones or flower.

The clones will give a more accurate representation of the strain than the seed plant.

 

[Nannymouse]

Oh, you don't have to toss the seed grown. It's just like Lester Beans said, you get a more accurate representation of the strain. AND know when the upcoming clones are going to finish AND are easier to keep in smaller containers. Genetically, it's the same as the clone.

As far as losing time...now that depends on the plant. If the plant's clones finish weeks earlier than the seed grown 'mom', you may not be losing much time at all. When it's time to repot the seed grown mom plant, you may be doing a root trim at that time, so...in a way, she becomes much like a clone, anyway.

If you are outdoors or in a large gh grow, this may not be way to go, i dunno. But for smaller indoor grows, this is what i would do. Getting rid of a big mom plant and using a smaller clone in her place in the mom room, gives you more room so that you can test out more.

There are many ways to work the plant.

Oh, and as for other hints, i would say that accurate labelling and note-taking could be very helpful.

 

[Terppalooza]

Im limited with space and stuff. so im a tent grower. but assumibly even if id have a hall this would make some sense. I like to pheno hunt in small spaces. less wastage of space and time and money. 99% of phenos usualy suck anyways unless you have some crazy strain xD

 

[Terppalooza]

Heres how i do it. I like to put my seeds in water for 24 hours then they go into plugs.

 

[Terppalooza]

after a week they look like this and go into small 2.5l pots.

 

[Terppalooza]

I pack them as tight as possible. 84 into a 4x4 (120cm120cm). The more phenos the merrier

 

[Terppalooza]

and exactly 4 weeks after putting the seeds into the water. i usualy flip

 

[Terppalooza]

while they are in the early flower stage (frist 2 weeks) i will thin them out almost daily take some big blocking leaves off the plants.

 

[Terppalooza]

2 weeks after flip all males come out. on this day i will take all plants out. check them for males herms so on. thin the bottoms out heavy. this is the day were i take clones off all the females. and select any males needed for breeding.

 

[Terppalooza]

and then just cruise mode. like any other weed plant. once done. dry them and i sleect after about 2 weeks of cure.

 

[Terppalooza]

Thats about it. keep the tastiest mom. throw the rest away. I bottom feed everything so just flood the whole tent every day. they take up the water. and everythigns gucci. so make shure you have a tent with a solid bottom..

 

[Terppalooza]

Keeping the phgenohunt moms is also super easy. Tbh i just treat them a bit shit. they get tiny pots. sit in trays that i bottom feed every few days minimum space and attention. the small buts and bad spacing keeps them from getting big. as soon as the phenos are sleected after smoke, the moms should not even be that large, because of the shitty treatment, just make shure evry single pheno is alive. the worst growing ones tend to be the bvery best taste xD. this is what i keep the hunt moms like. can keep large numbers in tiny spaces!