What year was Indica used for hybrids in Mexico?

[BOMBAYCAT]

I just bought some seeds described as a purple Mexican IBL landrace. The pictures seem like a little Indica sneaked in there as the leaves are a bit wider than a true Sativa. I believe the part of an old time cultivar IBL from Mexico but I thought it took much more time to be described as a landrace?

 

[goingrey]

In the 70s

 

[goingrey]

Indica in mexibrick seeds, Why?

I've grown a lot of mexican brick over the years and was just wondering why sometimes I will get a plant that looks almost pure Indica out of it. 95% of the plants will have a sativa pheno but once in a while you get the oddball. I was wondering if anyone knows when and how the Indica influence...

www.icmag.com

 

[Marz]

Cannabis has been traveling with humans since we were not humans. It was one of the original crops in the agricultural revolution along with wheat. Having medicine has always been as important as having food.

So how many years does it take for a plant to become native to the place where it is?
If it's been growing freely for 50 years, can it still not be considered a landrace from Mexico? Because before that someone had already taken it there, no cannabis is native to the Americas although many are considered landraces.

Just a random thought that come and go.

 

[mudballs]

If left feral only 5yrs..ibl to f6 is homogeneous...after that is acclimatization. I think that's 10yrs..maybe 12...most crop study plots at universities are done around 10-12yrs. They release developed seed lines before that too

 

[Hammerhead]

I would guess it started around 1975, closer to 1978, no Afghans were growing in Cali in 1975. They were potent but lacked in every other area. Everything we grew was Sat x Sat hybrids. Finding a WLD would not be surprising, it happens. Leaf morphology does not tell the whole story. Cannabis is made up of hybrids that are incredibly hard to classify as Northern or tropical, Indica, or sativa, because they have attributes of both.

"Robert Clarke often jokes that scientifically speaking, nobody smokes “sativa” because all drug varieties are “Indica”.

 

[Ringodoggie]

I always heard the story was that, when the War on Drugs started, the Mexi cartels crop dusted the Sativa fields with Indica pollen to reduce the time frame required for harvest and, therefore, reducing the exposure time to get busted.

I have no idea if that is actually true but it's a neat story. LOL

 

[mudballs]

Narcos:mexico 1,000 acre marijuana bust
Shit was contaminated before 84...and it wasn't much earlier Rafael Caro Quintero finally figured out how to make sensi, so yeah it was all fkt once it landed in mexico.

 

[CharlesU Farley]

I would guess it started around 1975, closer to 1978, no Afghans were growing in Cali in 1975. They were potent but lacked in every other area. Everything we grew was Sat x Sat hybrids. Finding a WLD would not be surprising, it happens. Leaf morphology does not tell the whole story. Cannabis is made up of hybrids that are incredibly hard to classify as Northern or tropical, Indica, or sativa, because they have attributes of both.

"Robert Clarke often jokes that scientifically speaking, nobody smokes “sativa” because all drug varieties are “Indica”.

Imo, probably a generalized, correct assumption but much, much too specific of a time frame.

In my normal smartass, facetious way, I was going to post a response to the OP... "at 12:07 p.m. on September 27th, 1969, in the city of Morelia, in the Michoacán province of Mexico, it was a delightful afternoon with a breeze blowing in out of the east, the warm smell of colitis was in the air"

This is an unanswerable question, because _nobody_ knows what _everybody_ was doing, especially in Mexico, when Indica was introduced.

Just like with the various named cannabis varietals, trying to pin down the answer to this question, unless you were actually there, is all speculation, guess work, but mostly bullshit stories and theories.

Unless you were there, you don't know.

 

[Marz]

"Sativa, sativus, and sativum are Latin botanical adjectives meaning cultivated. It is often associated botanically with plants that promote good health and used to designate certain seed-grown domestic crops."

No one smokes indica out of India following the real meaning of sativum word. We are all smoking cannabium sativum.

 

[CharlesU Farley]

"Sativa, sativus, and sativum are Latin botanical adjectives meaning cultivated. It is often associated botanically with plants that promote good health and used to designate certain seed-grown domestic crops."

No one smokes indica out of India following the real meaning of sativum word. We are all smoking cannabium sativum.

This old dinosaur just doesn't understand all the rage these days about land races and how they're the best smoke, most versatile cannabis, etc.

I have never smoked or seen any land race cannabis, so I'm talking out of complete ignorance here and that's rare for me, but my own, deeply flawed common sense tells me I would rather have cannabis that has been grown, cultivated, developed, and yes loved by human beings, for the very specific purpose of getting high, than wild, unattended cannabis that's growing in a ditch.

 

[Hmong]

but I thought it took much more time to be described as a landrace?

landrace = marketing words

IBL is all you need to know, those are heirloom seeds
produced by humans, enthusiasts, likely stabilized and not a real landrace collected from feral plants in situ. Which are kinda bunk anyway

doesn't matter, I'm sure it is what it promises to be, Mexican NLD
just don't get too hung up on specific words used

it's the seed game afterall

The pictures seem like a little Indica sneaked in there as the leaves are a bit wider than a true Sativa.

any pictures for us to see?
which state of growth?

did your heirloom seeds have a specific date to them, like "Colombian Gold 1972"?
in terms of your question for the exact year being important?

 

[mudballs]

Imo, probably a generalized, correct assumption but much, much too specific of a time frame.

In my normal smartass, facetious way, I was going to post a response to the OP... "at 12:07 p.m. on September 27th, 1969, in the city of Morelia, in the Michoacán province of Mexico, it was a delightful afternoon with a breeze blowing in out of the east, the warm smell of colitis was in the air"

This is an unanswerable question, because _nobody_ knows what _everybody_ was doing, especially in Mexico, when Indica was introduced.

Just like with the various named cannabis varietals, trying to pin down the answer to this question, unless you were actually there, is all speculation, guess work, but mostly bullshit stories and theories.

Unless you were there, you don't know.

Hammer is an old hand and paid attention...if he says '75-'78 indica was introduced into mexico...i believe him...timeline adds up from what i can tell. Not picking a fight, just backing hammer on his input. He ain't no fly-by-night 20 something

 

[flylowgethigh]

I read about guys who bringing in dope. One episode has them visiting a big shot down there and one dude brought a couple zips of seeds he had collected. The kingpin was glad because they had grown females and forgot about seeds. So shit spreads around.

 

[goingrey]

This old dinosaur just doesn't understand all the rage these days about land races and how they're the best smoke, most versatile cannabis, etc.

Landraces are paramount. Not just for cannabis but for all crops.

This is what the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations says about them:

A. Farmers' varieties/landraces The role of farmer’s variety/landrace diversity for sustainable agriculture, food security and economic development

7. Population growth, changing and extreme weather patterns and their direct and indirect effects, along with other drivers of food insecurity, are increasingly threatening PGRFA and posing a challenge to producing more food sustainably with fewer inputs. In such a scenario it is imperative to conserve PGRFA more broadly than in the past.

8. A significant amount of local crop diversity is only maintained in farmer’s fields, orchards or home gardens. This diversity is adapted to specific ecosystems, climatic conditions and farming practices. Farmer’s variety/landrace diversity constitutes the livelihood for millions of farmers throughout the world. Local crop diversity is therefore particularly relevant in the context of food security, rural development and resilience of farming communities. There is inadequate information available on the diversity, number and status of farmers’ varieties/landraces on-farm; their use in crop improvement is also limited. 9

9. Farmers’ varieties/landraces are often genetically and phenotypically heterogeneous and adapted to the environmental conditions of the area of cultivation and are associated with traditional farming systems. They often have not undergone “formal” crop improvement, are recognized with local names and are closely associated with the traditional uses, knowledge, habits, dialects and celebrations of the people who developed and continue to grow them. Farmers’ varieties/landraces have often developed their characteristics through adaptation to local agro-environments and repeated in situ grower selection in traditional farming systems. Farmers’ varieties/landraces may grow mixed with other farmers’ varieties/landraces and/or in proximity to close wild relatives, with which gene exchange can occur. Local communities experiment with, share and exchange farmers’ varieties/landraces. The dynamism and continuing evolution of these genetic resources, grown on farms worldwide, mean that they are constantly adapting to environmental and management changes.

10. The importance of farmers’ varieties/landraces for increased production and sustainable agriculture is two-fold: on the one hand, different crops and varieties, and the use of heterogeneous varieties in farming systems, can be adopted as a mechanism to reduce risk and increase overall production stability and resilience, and on the other hand farmers’ varieties/landraces constitute a potential source of basic genetic material for developing better adapted varieties. Further, farmer’s variety/landrace production associated with niche marketing may increasingly be a means of sustaining traditional farming systems within otherwise intensive production systems. 8 http://www.pgrsecure.org/helpdesk_lr 9 http://www.fao.org/docrep/013/i1500e/i1500e00.htm 6 CGRFA-17/19/9.2/Inf.1

11. Farmers’ varieties/landraces have multiple roles to play in ensuring food security, as a source of food and livelihoods, and by providing farmers with more options that can enhance their income generation and development. At the crop level, farmers can diversify with respect to the crops and varieties they grow and at the farm level, farmers’ varieties/landraces can be incorporated into a diversity of enterprises, such as food processing, agroforestry or agritourism. Diversification across activities is also an important risk management strategy. The causes and consequences of farmer’s variety/landrace erosion

12. Vast numbers of farmers’ varieties/landraces have been replaced by modern cultivars in recent decades. When farmers’ varieties/landraces are replaced by modern cultivars, the unique combination of genetic diversity farmers’ varieties/landraces contain can be lost, if not properly conserved ex situ or on-farm. As a consequence, the total number of different varieties grown is reduced and/or cultivars grown by farmers become increasingly genetically similar to each other, making the farming systems less resilient and therefore more vulnerable to abiotic and biotic stresses. As not all farmers’ varieties/landraces are conserved systematically for all crop species, e.g. in an ex situ genebank collection, the genetic diversity and unique traits they contain might therefore be permanently lost. The main factors contributing to the genetic erosion of farmers’ varieties/landraces are: • changes in agricultural practices and land use, including mechanization, use of pesticides, herbicides and irrigation – all of which favour the replacement of farmers' varieties/landraces with modern varieties; • changes in consumption habits, favouring introduced crops and varieties; • subsidies, incentives, national registration and certification systems that promote the use of uniform , and possibly higher yielding, cultivars, e.g. seed and certification systems that limit the sale of crop seeds unless the variety is included in the national or regional varietal list, or free distribution of seeds of modern cultivars; • food standards that limit entry of landrace varieties and their products into markets; • rural depopulation, migration to urban centres and consequent loss of traditional knowledge of farmers’ varieties/landraces and farming systems due to ageing of farmers; • lack of awareness and recognition of the value of plant genetic resources as a local, national and global resource, and limited research on the useful traits of farmers’ varieties/landraces; • war, civil unrest, political instability and natural disasters and the provision of non-indigenous replacement planting materials; and • changes in climate and weather patterns, directly affecting the crops and cropping patterns, particularly in marginal environments where farmers’ varieties/landraces are often grown near their cultivation limits.

13. The loss of farmers’ varieties/ landrace diversity can also be seen as a form of ‘local cultural erosion’. This relates to the fact that the loss of particular farmers’ varieties/landraces may lead to the loss of specific cultural activities which are linked to them, their use and related traditions. Conservation and sustainable use of farmers’ varieties/landraces

14. The genetic diversity of farmers’ varieties/landraces is conserved and used directly by the farmers maintaining them. This diversity also has potential for use by plant breeders or other users. The majority of efforts to counter genetic erosion have concentrated on conservation of PGRFA in genebanks (ex situ), and considerable progress has been made in this area. In fact, genebanks play a central role in the conservation of farmers’ varieties/landraces. Many landraces would have been lost forever if not preserved in genebanks and many have been re-introduced to on-farm activities from genebanks. Therefore, national genebanks are an essential complement to on-farm management of PGRFA for a country and their activities are an essential part of a national strategy. 10 10 FAO 2015. Guidelines for Developing a National Strategy for Plant Genetic Resources for Food and Agriculture. http://www.fao.org/3/a-i4917e.pdf CGRFA-17/19/9.2/Inf.1 7

15. However, despite the improved systematic conservation of PGRFA in ex situ genebanks, there are still large gaps in the collections, and it is unlikely that ex situ conservation will ever be sufficiently comprehensive to conserve the full range of genetic diversity of all plant populations relevant to food and agriculture. Genebank collections are also vulnerable to loss and damage due to civil strife, mismanagement, inadequate funding and natural disasters.

16. Farmers’ varieties/landraces actively managed on-farm (including orchards and home gardens) are serving as a repository of this diversity; a proportion of them are backed-up within ex situ collections worldwide. Agrobiodiversity conservation strategies combine in situ conservation, on-farm management and ex situ conservation practices. On-farm management of farmers’ varieties/landraces is referred to as all practices for the conservation and sustainable use of these genetic resources within the agricultural systems in which they have evolved.

17. Central to the concept of on-farm management of farmers’ varieties/landraces is the continuing use of these resources by farmers, often resource poor with limited livelihood options, as well as connecting all stakeholders such as amateur gardeners, gardener networks, seed companies, breeders, indigenous peoples and local communities, community seed banks, seed associations and genebanks. Farmers keep farmers’ varieties/landraces in their fields for a variety of reasons, such as culture, food preference, risk avoidance, local adaptation, and niche market opportunities. This contributes to farmers having a wider range of options for livelihood diversification, and enhances farmers’ capacity to adapt to change. In some cases, however, farmers continue to grow farmers’ varieties/landraces because they lack alternatives.

18. A fundamental principle for successful on-farm management is that it is beneficial both for the farmers and for their communities. Support for on-farm management presents a particular challenge in that it may be in conflict with the development aspirations of the local community. For example, a local community may choose to switch to alternative crops or improved varieties that may be better suited to meet their immediate needs. Support for agrobiodiversity conservation and on-farm management of farmers’ varieties/landraces should never restrict or deny these aspirations, but should be able to help farmers develop alternative niche markets for specific crops and varieties, raising the value of the resource and so sustaining their conservation and sustainable use. Breeding programs should also consider the improvement of farmers’ varieties.

Of course when talking about some guy with a tent, as much as they'd like to believe they are doing important preservation work, let's be honest it's more about interesting tastes, highs, looks, and maybe a kind of collecting hobby. And there's nothing wrong with any of those reasons.

 

[Hammerhead]

Imo, probably a generalized, correct assumption but much, much too specific of a time frame.

In my normal smartass, facetious way, I was going to post a response to the OP... "at 12:07 p.m. on September 27th, 1969, in the city of Morelia, in the Michoacán province of Mexico, it was a delightful afternoon with a breeze blowing in out of the east, the warm smell of colitis was in the air"

This is an unanswerable question, because _nobody_ knows what _everybody_ was doing, especially in Mexico, when Indica was introduced.

Just like with the various named cannabis varietals, trying to pin down the answer to this question, unless you were actually there, is all speculation, guess work, but mostly bullshit stories and theories.

Unless you were there, you don't know.

In my area of Cali( Frisco- Santa Cruz), I was there. No one was growing any Afghan genetics. It was all Sativa. Cali was the mecca for quality cannabis during that time. The quality weed we grew didn't look anything like those HT pics. It is a misrepresentation of homegrown weed in 1970. Most imports were not that great from the journey it took. Many had hookups from growers in Mexico. Those also didn't look like those HT pics lol.

 

[CharlesU Farley]

In my area of Cali( Frisco- Santa Cruz), I was there. No one was growing any Afghan genetics. It was all Sativa. Cali was the mecca for quality cannabis during that time. The quality weed we grew didn't look anything like those HT pics. It is a misrepresentation of homegrown weed in 1970. Most imports were not that great from the journey it took. Many had hookups from growers in Mexico. Those also didn't look like those HT pics lol.

I understand what you're saying, but the question was when it was it introduced into _Mexico_. That's a pretty large area for anyone on a cannabis forum to be familiar with _everything_ that was going on, with _everybody_ who was growing cannabis.

The only thing I can say that I know for a fact because I grew it, was that the Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church was using Indica's with native Jamaican sativas in the late '60s to early '70s. And I'm pretty sure they were among the first to do it, but I'm not familiar with _everybody_ who was growing in Jamaica, in 1969, that's why I would never say there was a definite date.

It's like asking how long is a piece of string?

 

[RobFromTX]

I have never smoked or seen any land race cannabis, so I'm talking out of complete ignorance here

and youre missing out on a wonderful experience my dude. Give them a go at some point. You may never go back to indica again. Thats what happened to me

 

[mudballs]

We're into combative, have the last word territory

 

[CharlesU Farley]

We're into combative, have the last word territory

Then you know I'm out of here.