what to put on the bottom of pots for Drainage?

[DARC MIND]

i said ill layer landscape cloth on top off hydroton
so it will be 15 gal tub with drilled holes, 2-3 inch hydroton layer, landscape cloth, then soil
i dont think peat or much will get threw the cloth (im pretty sure of that)

 

[Wooderson]

hmm what if one is trying to use some of bottom space for air? like the discussion here
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=163672
i had plan on doing something similar to wooderson on post #1, hydroton 1-2 inch layer and landscape cloth in a 15 gal tub but for help with oxygen, im not worried about drainage

thoughts??

Yeah I love that idea for sure, but I think to get my feet wet with Organic Soil I'm going to start with 5 Gallon Pots.

 

[Okiedope]

A problem with drainage or air layer using hydrodon, lava rock, etc, is if one is using a peat or coir based mix the particles will work their way into the bottom layer where there is plenty of pore space between the big hydroton that the peat particles will fill, thus reducing the air space while (often) increasing the perched water table which means the reason for the layer in the first place is null in void.

HTH

hey bro. not trying to derail this thread but would you mind giving a quick synopsis on the perched water table you keep referring to. i looked up a few definitions online but failed to see how they pertained to container gardening. anyway, think you could 'splain this to me?

 

[secondtry]

EDIT:

Air space at bottom = air pruning of roots.

That is the original way to air prune roots, commercial growers (not cannabis) allowed the bottom roots to hit air which effectively prunes them. I for one plan to use a similar method with homemade SmartPots next months on my next grow, but my media will fill the pot and below the pot will be 1-2" of hydrodton. Thus the roots grow through the SmartPot and get pruned by the air. The Smartpot will be placed within a bigger plastic pot, and between the bottom of the SmartPot and the bottom of the plastic pot is the hydronton. More hydroton will be placed all around the sides of the SmartPot between it and the plastic pot (for stability and air pruning).


"Guidebook for Native Plant Propagation: Development and construction of an air-pruning propagation bench, and its proper use"
By Julia Walker
ESRM 412 – Native Plant Production
Spring 2005 – Prof. Kern Ewing
http://depts.washington.edu/propplnt/Chapters/air-pruning.htm

 

[secondtry]

i said ill layer landscape cloth on top off hydroton
so it will be 15 gal tub with drilled holes, 2-3 inch hydroton layer, landscape cloth, then soil
i dont think peat or much will get threw the cloth (im pretty sure of that)

So the cloth is over the hydroton? That makes a lot more sense, but still, air should be in the media, not at the bottom. SmartPots air prune, its not so roots can get more air (once they are through the SmartPots). Media should have at least 15% air porosity, adding a bottom area for air doesn't help.

Tho I still could be missing your point, do you have a pic?

 

[secondtry]

its simple really read the thread
the idea is to increase oxygen to the borrom media of container,i have planned on using some pvc pipes mentioned in the thread as well.
isnt oxygen why smart pots work well?

That is why I suggest using well thought-out media which already has plenty of air porosity, no need for a bottom air space (which won't help). We want the air in the media...

Pro-mix and other peat or coir based mixes hold too little air while holding too much moister. Instead of duct taping inferior media I suggest growers use good media.

HTH

 

[DARC MIND]

no you got my point, you just see the layer as a waste of space
the idea was for more oxygen, i never heard of the air prune (thanks for the link) but maybe the space at the bottom can benefit the same way as smartpots?

 

[guest2012y]

Okay..........here's what I'm doing:
I have three 3ft x 4ft long beds that I have tilted on about a 22 1/2 degree "tilt"(from my plumbing experience) Two have bottoms,one has none. The ones with the bottoms have several holes which drainage and air can permeate.(sp?) The one that has no bottom just rests on plastic sheeting. There is no difference in the two types of beds as far as growth of the plants is concerned. However,the one with no bottom seems to have a better existence as far as living soil is concerned. That's what I have observed so far.

 

[MrBomDiggitty]

I put old underwear, stinky socks, ugly sweaters, etc. at the bottom of my containers. It keeps the media from running out when I water and I just found this out recently... it lets root aphids crawl out but they cant crawl back in. I dunno why, but hundreds just lay dead outside the cloth covered exit holes.

 

[guest2012y]

EDIT:

Air space at bottom = air pruning of roots.

That is the original way to air prune roots, commercial growers (not cannabis) allowed the bottom roots to hit air which effectively prunes them. I for one plan to use a similar method with homemade SmartPots next months on my next grow, but my media will fill the pot and below the pot will be 1-2" of hydrodton. Thus the roots grow through the SmartPot and get pruned by the air. The Smartpot will be placed within a bigger plastic pot, and between the bottom of the SmartPot and the bottom of the plastic pot is the hydronton. More hydroton will be placed all around the sides of the SmartPot between it and the plastic pot (for stability and air pruning).


"Guidebook for Native Plant Propagation: Development and construction of an air-pruning propagation bench, and its proper use"
By Julia Walker
ESRM 412 – Native Plant Production
Spring 2005 – Prof. Kern Ewing
http://depts.washington.edu/propplnt/Chapters/air-pruning.htm

Gotta' love this guy's diagram's....I mean where else can a weed growing stoner get this info. This site is the only place to hang out and feel comfortable enough to engage in corresponding in gathering info. and learning from the experienced via the weird ass internet. It's a labor of love,can you tell I'm stoned?

 

[big ballin 88]

Gotta' love this guy's diagram's....I mean where else can a weed growing stoner get this info. This site is the only place to hang out and feel comfortable enough to engage in corresponding in gathering info. and learning from the experienced via the weird ass internet. It's a labor of love,can you tell I'm stoned?

You and me both bud. Secondtry is my hero. Lol if it wasn't for him i'd be sifting threw more bullshit than a mod on this site. i'm happy i came back to IC.

I just ordered some Smart Pots the other day so they should be getting here. I want to see if their worth all the hype, in theory it sounds solid. I'm thinking if i could use them in a hydro set-up like a flow and drain. Did you say something about running one of those ST?

 

[TheMonarch]

EDIT:

Air space at bottom = air pruning of roots.

That is the original way to air prune roots, commercial growers (not cannabis) allowed the bottom roots to hit air which effectively prunes them. I for one plan to use a similar method with homemade SmartPots next months on my next grow, but my media will fill the pot and below the pot will be 1-2" of hydrodton. Thus the roots grow through the SmartPot and get pruned by the air. The Smartpot will be placed within a bigger plastic pot, and between the bottom of the SmartPot and the bottom of the plastic pot is the hydronton. More hydroton will be placed all around the sides of the SmartPot between it and the plastic pot (for stability and air pruning).

Do you think that will provide enough ventilation for the roots to be air-pruned??

The basic needs are an open metal surface raised up off the ground, such as a mesh, that allows air to flow freely. It should be at least 16-24” high to allow air to circulate beneath. Standard height for a typical (non-air-pruning) propagation bench is 36"

The inventors have also tested various bench heights (i.e., the height from the greenhouse floor to the wire mesh supports) under a strictly controlled greenhouse environment, for both the first and second air root pruning steps. Heights of 12,18, 24, 30, and 36 inches were all carefully tested. While there was little differences in the 30 and 36 inches bench heights, both were far superior in air flow and subsequent root pruning to 12, 18, and 24 inches. As a result, the inventors havedetermined that balancing effectiveness of root pruning versus construction and installation costs, and ergonomic considerations, a height of 30 inches is optimum.

No roots should be visible outside or beneath the container. If you can see small white tips of roots try-

Does anyone know why it is so important that they dry instantly?

 

[guest2012y]

I put old underwear, stinky socks, ugly sweaters, etc. at the bottom of my containers. It keeps the media from running out when I water and I just found this out recently... it lets root aphids crawl out but they cant crawl back in. I dunno why, but hundreds just lay dead outside the cloth covered exit holes.

Are you fucking serious? I don't know if you're kidding or not. Some people do some weird ass shit. I would say that qualifies as weird ass shit. Are you fucking serious? If so this MAY hold some validation.

 

[NUG-JUG]

Hey who knows maybe it works. I swear a lot of growers do silly shit that doesn't necessarily do harm but doesnt help either. Then they qualify it as a success.

 

[guest2012y]

Hey who knows maybe it works. I swear a lot of growers do silly shit that doesn't necessarily do harm but doesnt help either. Then they q

Are those sweaters organic? Did they come from alpaca's? Were they fed organically?
Are these sweaters acrylic? petrochemical industiral shit............ that don't count.

 

[big ballin 88]

Are those sweaters organic? Did they come from alpaca's? Were they fed organically?
Are these sweaters acrylic? petrochemical industiral shit............ that don't count.

Got me laughing my ass off over here...

Nug- I heard someone who used to say using gatorades great it add's orange flavor, he also used to say that the symmetry of a leaf is what determines sex. Some stuff does work, but a lot of stuff is way to subjective this is the internet.

Monarch- I believe that the air shouldn't necessarily dry out instantly as much as it should have a good balance of airflow. White tips coming out the bottom of the pot would show the tips of the root not being air pruned however.

 

[guest2012y]

Have you seen the movie Idiocracy?

 

[big ballin 88]

Have you seen the movie Idiocracy?

yea its was a pretty funny movie. I know the part your speaking of they didnt understand why the plants weren't growing! I'm just being serious i really had a friend who thought gatorade would work great but he would never understand why the plants would get all ugly. Some people haha

 

[NUG-JUG]

Yea as the organically fed alpaca sweaters are flown 3,000 miles to a "green store" what a joke.

Big Ballin- yea you know Lebron Lightning Lemonade is good for that SL Haze !!

 

[guest2012y]

Yea as the organically fed alpaca sweaters are flown 3,000 miles to a "green store" what a joke.

Big Ballin- yea you know Lebron Lightning Lemonade is good for that SL Haze !!

Sweet..funny ass shit. Comedy first class.