What is a self?

[southflorida]

Is the "self" our body? our thoughts? our emotions?

For the majority of people obviously the answer is YES.

But, if we are aware of our body, thoughts, and emotions, how can we be them?

That's like me being aware of my television and believing that the television is my "self" also

What if there is no self? What if we don't really know what a self is? What if what we think of as our "self" is nothing but a bunch of ideas that we identify with and are attached to?

 

[skullznroses]

Its the little voice in the back of your head that says my colon hurts either run to the house faster or shit in the woods you dumby... but then somehow abides the panic set in by the acid building up even more uncomfortably near your ass sphinctor. The same little voice that says some toast with your smoothy next time bud.

Nobody else does that for meself

 

[Adze]

If there is no "self" then there is no one to ask the question.

Who is it that is attached to and identifies these ideas?

If your self is nothing more than the idea of your self, does that change it in the slightest?

 

[southflorida]

Its the little voice in the back of your head that says my colon hurts either run to the house faster or shit in the woods you dumby... but then somehow abides the panic set in by the acid building up even more uncomfortably near your ass sphinctor. The same little voice that says some toast with your smoothy next time bud.

Nobody else does that for meself

my question is: if you are aware of this voice, then who or what is aware of this voice?

...the voice can't be aware of the voice

...something else is aware of the voice

this is what I'm pointing at

 

[southflorida]

If there is no "self" then there is no one to ask the question.

true.

Who is it that is attached to and identifies these ideas?

self

If your self is nothing more than the idea of your self, does that change it in the slightest?

no, but my point is that this "self" might not be who we really are

it's possible we are the awareness, that is aware of the self, and NOT the self itself

 

[Adze]

I do get it. You are aware, not of something. The self looks at it's self and becomes an observer of the observed, and therefore not your real "self". And yet, there you are reading this post.

 

[WelderDan]

Pondering shit like this makes my head hurt. Off to have a cold one and a few bong rips. Helps keep all those voices happy and quiet.

 

[southflorida]

I do get it. You are aware, not of something. The self looks at it's self and becomes an observer of the observed, and therefore not your real "self". And yet, there you are reading this post.

true.

our self interprets every perception, provides meaning to this perception and also provides the emotional charge that is appropriate to every circumstance in relation to itself. This helps us survive and take action that we believe is appropriate to whatever occurs in our moment to moment experience.

what is interesting to me is that this self mind is doing the interpreting and is interpreting everything in relation to itself

it ask the question "what does this mean to me?" without EVER stopping

so it is a completely closed system.

when we realize that we are NOT this conceptual self, but instead the awareness that is aware of everything, this changes our perspective and we can simply focus on what is, instead of always focusing on what is not

this is all a self ever really does, focus on what is not

most folks don't really notice this, and even when they do, they choose to ignore it.

 

[southflorida]

Pondering shit like this makes my head hurt. Off to have a cold one and a few bong rips. Helps keep all those voices happy and quiet.

that would be a good tactic if it worked in the long term

eventually life becomes cold ones and bong rips

that is not bad in itself of course, it is what it is

I'm just saying that realizing that we are not the thinking and emotions that pass through our awareness leads to them becoming quiet in the long term

and then cold ones and bong hits can be enjoyed for themselves, just because that is what we want and like to do

 

[skullznroses]

Your brain or self has many levels of awareness. You can spiral inwards or outwards but there is no black hole at the center, nor God at the fringes.

Emotions are a form of long term self preservation. If you start with the small assumption that self grew inside your inert, but living body near birth and conception... then a better question is:

At what level of self recognition does your self correctly identify itself as independent, correctly.

 

[Adze]

southflorida,

The concept of self is part of awareness, you can't seperate your self from it. The "you" your'e talking about isn't you, it's the one who is talking (posting). Always the observer, never the obsevered. Other than that, I completely agree with you.

 

[southflorida]

Your brain or self has many levels of awareness. You can spiral inwards or outwards but there is no black hole at the center, nor God at the fringes.

Emotions are a form of long term self preservation. If you start with the small assumption that self grew inside your inert, but living body near birth and conception... then a better question is:

At what level of self recognition does your self correctly identify itself as independent, correctly.

I'm interested in the true nature of this self.

If it started and grew inside of me, this means it started from nothing and was created through cultural-programming from society (parents, teachers, family, television, internet, etc) and plus self-programming (taking on beliefs, assumptions, convictions, etc).

With this, we are basically admitting that this self is false and made up. It is an invention, a conception of the mind. It also exists in the mind, and more correctly can be called the self-mind.

Right?

 

[WelderDan]

that would be a good tactic if it worked in the long term

eventually life becomes cold ones and bong rips

that is not bad in itself of course, it is what it is

I'm just saying that realizing that we are not the thinking and emotions that pass through our awareness leads to them becoming quiet in the long term

and then cold ones and bong hits can be enjoyed for themselves, just because that is what we want and like to do

Is there a God, or Gods? Does Alien life exist outside our Solar system? Are we just an Alien science experiment? Do we have a soul? If we do have a Soul, is that our "self"?

Some things are beyond our current level of understanding. Or maybe we really don't want to know after all. The truth may be worse than not knowing. Or, there is nothing more. You're born, you live, you die. That's it. Nobody knows.

Those cold ones and bong rips are just a fraction of what I like and want to do, but I'm a simple man with simple wants and needs. These things make me happy, as does a good steak.

Now my head hurts.

 

[southflorida]

The concept of self is part of awareness, you can't seperate your self from it. The "you" your'e talking about isn't you, it's the one who is talking (posting). Always the observer, never the obsevered. Other than that, I completely agree with you.

The self that is doing the talking and posting is the invented me. The awareness that is aware of this invented self, is distinct, or more correctly, of a different nature, but yes, it is not separate.

I am aware that awareness, or consciousness, and the self are one, that consciousness is fundamentally aware as everything there is.

In other words, there is nothing that is not consciousness.

I'm trying to make a distinction between awareness and self, not separate them. They are different in nature, but are part of one structure.

Obviously consciousness and awareness are NOT what we think they are, since thoughts are only concepts, representations of what something is.

The nature of consciousness, awareness and self are different (distinct).

consciousness/awareness are not conceptual in and of themselves, and are outside of our perceptions, while the self is completely conceptual, and exists in a completely conceptual world

This world we call the mind...the self-mind.

There is also a difference between awareness and perception.

Awareness is what is. It is fundamental. It is primary.

Perception is a secondary process. It is what is not. It is conceptual in nature. It is basically a survival mechanism (program).

With perception we never perceive what is actually there. We only perceive what our beliefs and assumptions and memory allow us to perceive. It is the interpretation of data passing through the nerve endings.

our self mind is interpreting this data and providing the images we see, the sounds we hear, etc.

In other words, the one perceiving (observer), and the one perceived (observed) are the same thing. It is the self-mind. What I am calling the self in this thread.

And it is 100% conceptual.

By this, I want to point out that this false-self is a secondary process, and is not authentic or original, and is never what is.

Instead the false-self is focused on what is not, and because of this it is always suffering and struggling as it tries to survive physically and socially.

In fact, the self is a false cultural assumption that causes the most suffering and pain, and leads to the 99.9% of the problems that we are experiencing as the human race.

Believing that we are something that we are not, and trying to live in this illusion doesn't work, and that is why there is so much BS in the world.

 

[SooperSmurph]

Selfing is when pollen is produced from a plant with the intention / effect of fertilizing that same plant to produce seeds.

 

[skullznroses]

I'm interested in the true nature of this self.

If it started and grew inside of me, this means it started from nothing and was created through cultural-programming from society (parents, teachers, family, television, internet, etc) and plus self-programming (taking on beliefs, assumptions, convictions, etc).

With this, we are basically admitting that this self is false and made up. It is an invention, a conception of the mind. It also exists in the mind, and more correctly can be called the self-mind.

Right?

No Im suggesting it comes from eons of time and galactic happenings, not some new age socio-economic zeitgeist bent on programming us (it is you know).

It does not come from something, that is what your evolved sense of perception linking your innermost neurotic development to the rest of the semi transitive world.

Its true nature is your true expression of it, that which was built into you before there was a you, unless you believe in overlapping universes of infinite possibility . your true nature is inquisitive and untrusting, you must come from hunting/ farming apes of long ago

 

[southflorida]

Is there a God, or Gods? Does Alien life exist outside our Solar system? Are we just an Alien science experiment? Do we have a soul? If we do have a Soul, is that our "self"?

Some things are beyond our current level of understanding. Or maybe we really don't want to know after all. The truth may be worse than not knowing. Or, there is nothing more. You're born, you live, you die. That's it. Nobody knows.

I don't know, and doubt that anyone does either.

Those cold ones and bong rips are just a fraction of what I like and want to do, but I'm a simple man with simple wants and needs. These things make me happy, as does a good steak.

Simplicity is king. The simpler the better. Complexity messes everything up and leads to suffering.

I just wanted to point out that maybe you like cold ones and bong rips simply for themselves, and not to calm down the voices.

 

[southflorida]

Selfing is when pollen is produced from a plant with the intention / effect of fertilizing that same plant to produce seeds.

that's an interesting distinction by the way

in some ways this is what the self does

it produces billions of concepts, and then believes these concepts are all part of "it-self."

then it does everything to convince it-self that it is real

 

[southflorida]

No Im suggesting it comes from eons of time and galactic happenings, not some new age socio-economic zeitgeist bent on programming us (it is you know).

It does not come from something, that is what your evolved sense of perception linking your innermost neurotic development to the rest of the semi transitive world.

Its true nature is your true expression of it, that which was built into you before there was a you, unless you believe in overlapping universes of infinite possibility . your true nature is inquisitive and untrusting, you must come from hunting/ farming apes of long ago

damn SNR...this is way out there

 

[resinryder]

The entirety of one.