What gives outdoor grown that taste and smell ?

[troutman]

You can't beat that Solar bulb in the sky.

 

[Elmer Bud]

Not a grow light yet has come even close to the intense changing spectrum of the sun and sky. They say good wine comes from bad soil. Microbe and mineral content vary a lot from place to place. Land has it's own uniqe fingerprint.

G `day E7

Difference with a lamp is consistency .
No cloudy days , no rain , no strong wind , less temp fluctuations .

Nutes and environment can be controlled .

Terrior involves low rain fall . Cannabis likes water ...

Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[green404]

Not a grow light yet has come even close to the intense changing spectrum of the sun and sky. They say good wine comes from bad soil. Microbe and mineral content vary a lot from place to place. Land has it's own uniqe fingerprint.

Reminds me of the stories of the original outdoor Matanuska valley Alaska. That would be one to study the UV effect with. Wish I had access to some

There was one guy here that used to post a lot of pictures and every one he'd post the buds had cat hair on them

Makes me wonder about indoor grows with lots of pets in the house, some houses just smell like pet as soon as the door opens. all that pet dandruff has to get in on the buds. Then what about people who are allergic to it.

If I grow the same tomato outdoor and greenhouse, they too taste very different. The same goes for strawberry and cucumbers.
I know the primary cause is temperature. Cooler nights makes them higher in sugar content and therefore rich in flavor.
I believe the same goes for cannabis. More sugar content makes for a different flavor.

I have been wonder about this, In Colorado we have a place called Olathe they grow corn and supposedly it is so sweet from the cold mornings. Thinking along angle makes me wonder about high elevation cannabis vs low land and the morning temps and flavors.

 

[Weird]

there is still this delusion that cannabis expresses perfectly under a simple npk regiment



it does not, it expresses homogeneously which is why many cultivars that share genes grown in those conditions seem so similar



the real differentiator isn't sun, or water, or atmosphere but rather soil to root interactions all of which, in natural conditions act as triggers for terpene production in response to environmental variation



it is how and why the plants evolved the capacity to express different terpenes and in their natural environments the expression of terpenes is responsive to said environment so the plant can adapt and thrive in face of threats like pests, disease and environmental conditions like drought


all anyone has to do is look testing on plants grown conventionally versus those grown in living soil and you will find some strains express terpenes in natural soil that they don't express in conventional conditions and that those grown in conventional conditions all have one or two terpenes producing well and all others muted comparatively


also maximum nutrition limits the production of some terpenes also adding to the lack of variation among commercial pot


the easiest test one can do is grow one or two plants in living soil side by side to conventional grown weed



it is also scientifically proven that cannabis tailors the microbiology in soil for subsequent generations including SARS defense and greater terpene production


I have posted this information here on more than one occasion

 

[beta]

What people will tell you: "Terroir"

The reality: Outdoor herb is exposed to much more heat, light, and water, all of which quickly degrade the lighter monoterpenes. What you're left with are the heavier sesquiterpenes.

Outdoor herb smells like stable terpenes and doesn't smell like the more fragile terpenes.

 

[Arkansux]

What people will tell you: "Terroir"

The reality: Outdoor herb is exposed to much more heat, light, and water, all of which quickly degrade the lighter monoterpenes. What you're left with are the heavier sesquiterpenes.

Outdoor herb smells like stable terpenes and doesn't smell like the more fragile terpenes.

I believe this is correct, along with dust/pollen/etc...

 

[baduy]

I think you got it backwards, it seems to me the question is "what gives indoor grown that taste and smell?" I only grow outdoor and when friends give me buds from a clone of mine I gave them to flower in their tent it feels like the smell is standardized (even if one uses CMh and the other LED) as opposed to the many subtle differences I can distinguish from my outdoor crop. Just my opinion, I think it's just a matter of what you are most used to.

 

[redlaser]

The stereotypical “outdoor” smell and taste that I run into seems more related to how fast it was dried. If it’s at 55/60% humidity and 55-60 temps for 8-10 days I don’t see that happen.

Nutrition and temps while growing plays a large part, as well as local pollutants

 

[MedResearcher]

No single answer to that question. More of many complex factors that led you to that observation, of all outdoor tasting/smelling the same.

I agree, with most of the previous posts. You got a lot of good answers, and hypothesis's which could cause your observation.

Without micro managing the question, I think the larger answer is the commercialization and industrialization of the cannabis market. Which in turn has effected outdoor quality at a faster rate because of the larger volume of production versus indoor.

Fear not, another couple years, a few more pieces of legislation the indoor will soon follow the trend. Look at Canada, their indoor production as far as commercialization and industrialization is far more advanced than the States. You will notice a trend of observations of Canadian consumers, that all of the corporate mass grown indoor canna tastes and smells the same to some extent. Canadians were very upset when the government tried to force them to consume canna from a single company for that reason.. of it all pretty much sucking.

Look to another country, Mexico. Mexico originally had some of the worlds finest canna. Mexican landrace sativa was and is one of the main building blocks to almost every single complex hybrid we have today. Although at some point in history, the Mexican industry shifted from mom and pop family growers, to industrialized cartel brick. The supply sky rocketed, and we were left with bricks of bammer. Almost all of the bricked bammer, smells and tastes the same. Once in a great while you may get a piece of a brick that was slightly better, but it would still share the same basic taste and smell.


In conclusion, what you are smelling and tasting in the outdoor packs is industrialization not the outdoor environment. Before long the indoor will be similar. I tried a distillate pen the other day, it reminded me of Mexican bammer, same taste.


Myself, native Californian. I have smoked canna from all over California. Oakland, Big Sur, Humboldt, Trinity, San Fran, S.L.O, indoor, outdoor, organic, hydro, bio, aero, human manure, bat guano, rabbit guano, miracle grow, GH, custom salts, flower hardeners, sweeteners, etc.. etc.. My father, grew up in the 60's, smoked his entire life and shared his experiences with me about imports from all over the world. He traveled through canna producing countries, just getting high, and brought back his stories which I still value highly. Most people today just lack real world experiences and history of the Canna industry.

My entire life, the top 10 bags I have come across would probably be a very close mix of both indoor and outdoor. You can grow absolute crap, or absolute fantastic canna in many many different environments and with many many techniques.

There is something special about a piece of pristine forest, or mountains, a creek bounding with life leading to a waterfall, depositing thousands of years of layers of the magic of life into soil, virgin from industrialized agriculture. Every year there are less and less places like this, and very few people grow Canna in them. The few that do, the Canna is not for sale, and is in very small supply most likely for family and friends only. The commercial supply comes from Fox Farm, Roots Organic, GH, etc.. etc..

The real question is, why is there so much crap now, and why is it becoming more common. Industrialization.


The genetics are a little scary. Look at some history, Mexico again. Legend has it, they hybridized their magical sativa to make more money, which in time led to the disappearance of the Mexican Sativa, and an all around opinion of Mexican Canna being garbage. So meanwhile the States are industrializing their Canna market. Growers/Farmers are quickly adapting to stay in the market. Many only concerned with staying a float and successful versus the long term effects of removing genetic diversity at such a rapid pace.


To the OP, hopefully someday you will come across a bag of something very special grown outdoors. It saddens to me think that many people may never experience the wonders of the legendary canna from yesteryear and grown in the pristine natural surroundings our world use to provide us with. Canna genetics aside, the more destruction, and pollution to our planet, the less and less chance of experiencing the magic of what mother nature provided us with.

Mr^^

 

[Weird]

getting a plant to produce a terpene and capturing them so they make it to the jar are two different animals

 

[Weird]

a plant grown in an outdoor environment it evolved in will express differently than a plant grown in an outdoor environment it has not



that is why local environmental performance is so important



npk regiments in and of themselves also heavily influence and throttle the variation of expression as well since many of the cues that trigger expression are tied to nutrient levels and soil interactions



expression once again is not derogation which is important to differentiate


if a plant produces a terpene that is lost immediately because of harsh environments what adaptive purpose is it serving?

 

[al70]

bugs,,,,i hate bugs.

 

[green404]

Outdoor herb smells like stable terpenes and doesn't smell like the more fragile terpenes.

I feel like this, good indoor cured well smells complex filled with subtle hints of underlying notes of flavors it hard to put a finger on. I feel like a lot of these subtle terpenes ether get destroyed in a outdoor environment or do not produce.

I do think that strains picked for certain outdoor environments will probably produce and retain different terpenes better.

Look to another country, Mexico. Mexico originally had some of the worlds finest canna. Mexican landrace sativa was and is one of the main building blocks to almost every single complex hybrid we have today. Although at some point in history, the Mexican industry shifted from mom and pop family growers, to industrialized cartel brick. The supply sky rocketed, and we were left with bricks of bammer.

I smoked Mexican for a lot of years. I have lived and traveled in Mexico and bought a lot of “mom & pop”(usually the teenager or uncle) Mota. I love Mexican cannabis/Mota but most of it was not very good compared to our hybrid selection today. It was stringy and it would many times lead to parinioa and a heavy come down.

A lot of the brick weed was not that bad IMO. Cartels had selected good strains and grown them well by the late 90s. Selective breeding at work. A lot of brickweed was poor because they would buy any old mota from any farmer that brought it to the ranch.

On a thread here the other week I was looking at old hightimes from the 70s-80s with centerfold Mexican buds. We have come a long ways. I love landraces but selective breeding just evolves good stuff.

There is something special about a piece of pristine forest, or mountains, a creek bounding with life leading to a waterfall, depositing thousands of years of layers of the magic of life into soil, virgin from industrialized agriculture. Every year there are less and less places like this, and very few people grow Canna in them.

I was listing to an interview with DJ Short the other day. He was saying he thinks the future of fine cannabis is in getting a nice place to grow then finding a good strain for that place and growing it for 30 generations until you have your own strain genetically to that special place.

That would be awesome to have regional stuff grown to perfection. I have smoked good Puna Butter and Salmon Creek, other then that it is usually just a strain from a seed bank grown outside. I would love to smoke and vape more regional unique strains. I agree that indoor loses its environmental uniqueness.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Canada just announced 'micro' licensing for cannabis producers. This will allow the small mom and pop shops to do exactly what DJ spoke of.


Like wines you can only find in certain areas, people will travel for specific and extremely high quality cannabis. Can't wait.

 

[MedResearcher]

I smoked Mexican for a lot of years. I have lived and traveled in Mexico and bought a lot of “mom & pop”(usually the teenager or uncle) Mota. I love Mexican cannabis/Mota but most of it was not very good compared to our hybrid selection today. It was stringy and it would many times lead to parinioa and a heavy come down.

A lot of the brick weed was not that bad IMO. Cartels had selected good strains and grown them well by the late 90s. Selective breeding at work. A lot of brickweed was poor because they would buy any old mota from any farmer that brought it to the ranch.

On a thread here the other week I was looking at old hightimes from the 70s-80s with centerfold Mexican buds. We have come a long ways. I love landraces but selective breeding just evolves good stuff.

Very interesting, I was never lucky enough to travel around Mexico sampling local product except to a couple tiny trips to very generic sections of Mexico, let alone live there. Super cool. Appreciate the first hand information, helps to expand my perception of the subject. I try to keep open minded and learn from everyone I can. Without open friendly debate, we would only get a very small piece of the picture.

The only Mexican land race I was introduced to, was actually grown in Big Sur. Which in time, was hybrid more and more, and I cant say how far into the hybridization the stuff I sampled was. Some of it was surely closer to land race, while others had been hit with Dutch seed bank stuff, or other land races. I had always heard the really good stuff, originated from very high up in secluded Mexican mountains, remote villages, purple sativa. At the time I was visiting, the residents of Big Sur, were very special, heady type individuals. I think it is almost safe to assume, when they traveled through Mexico, it was not the generic typical locations, but extreme remote locations such as Big Sur itself. Which may have led to the collecting, of some very special heirloom varieties. Which may or may not have eventually led to the much elusive, yeti like, "Big Sur Holy Weed."

To me I have noticed a big difference between product grown at different elevations, or on different slopes, valleys, etc.. Even more so when the genetics are bred and developed in these locations. I think flat land ganja can tend to be subpar to highland. Especially if it was bred highland then commercialized on flat land. Not always of course, but in a general stereotypical way. I have seen the same grower, same strain, move a plot a couple hundred feet lower on a mountain, and the product was night and day not as good.

Later in life, Skunk, and Trainwreck come to mind as Mexican hybrids. Skunk being debatable... and arguable! lol. Maybe if we are lucky enough Sam the Skunkman will chime in and bless us with some knowledge.


Who knows what exactly happened, rumors and legends now. I had came to believe it as at least a possible scenario that the cartels hybridized Mexican land race with Afghani to speed up the crop production, not increase quality. It was obviously highly profitable for them. In a strange way, reminds me of the shift of Nor Cal full season OD to light dep. Only they did it with genetics, and we are doing it with black out fabric. Although physical and genetic change, can be completely different, I think the selection for "Dep" strains, strains that perform well in Dep and finish fast, may eventually lead to similar genetic drift. Prohibition and indoors, surely shifted many genetics line to finish faster and smell less.


With the amount of seed production visible in brick, it is hard for me to believe to much selection was used, imagine the cross pollination from fields full of males. More of an open pollination of a hybrid, year after year. The earliest males will dominate pollination drifting the line further and further away from a long flowering sativa. Surely they planted seeds from a good female, but personally I lean towards the impression that a lot of the farmers were just cash croppers, who desperately needed the cash.


My good friend who had introduced me to Big Sur, had already been traveling, camping, visiting in the area far before me. His Mother, even more so. They had collected seeds from Big Sur for years. We popped around 100+ seeds from Big Sur bags collected circa early 90's. The varieties were extremely vast, since the seeds were not collected from a single variety but from many different bags from Big Sur. This population we grew, had some really really great gems in it. Out of apx 40 females, there was 3-4 plants that really stood out. The very best plant, was a thin leaf sativa. The leafs were not only thin, but extremely long and the blades rectangle with prominent ridges. The plant dripped of oily resin, and reaked of Skunk. I recall rolling a blunt from it, and smoking it in an apartment with a good 6 people at least. It smoked and smoked and smoked, eventually a friend remarked about, "how the fuck is that blunt still burning,"... so much oily resin, so strong, think half the people were to stoned to even finish it.

We did selective pollination on that run, and split the seed stock between the two of us. Sadly out of inexperience, my half I bagged to fresh and the stock was ruined. My friend bagged his drier and furthered the selection for a few years on his own, later adding in a very godly Durban line. Coming home from the bar one night, he fully pollinated an entire room in a drunken pollination haze. I ended up helping him find homes for the seeded product. In the process I recollected some of the seed stock. Sadly this is approaching two decades ago, and my seed storage was subpar. I still have some of the stock, but my last few attempts to germ it were 0%.

A little more Big Sur nostalgia. I remember getting bags of "Grape," in Big Sur way prior to even the start of the "Grapes" fad of purple urkle/GDP. The "Grape" from Big Sur, was completely light green, and a bit on the shaggy thin leaning hybrid leaf side. Although it to, leaves and all, absolutely dripped of resin and had the most heavenly subtle grape flavor and smell.


Hope that didn't come off as rude, or disrespect. I enjoy and value everyone's experiences that are shared so freely with the community. If we had a little more sharing, and open conversation maybe all of these crappy outdoor packs wouldn't be swaying people so deeply towards indoor.

On a brighter note, nothing like some good Mota for some Mota-vation^^

Mr^^

 

[TychoMonolyth]

I saw a video where the proponent rinses all his outdoor colas (after harvest) in 3 tubs, One is H2O2, the last is clean water. I can't remember one of them. But just a quick swish and I couldn't believe the SHIT that was left behind.

I've heard of washing colas, and it's true, the garbage that comes off would surprise you. I've only seen lemon water, and two clean water.

[iframe1]RXS30i5fimQ[/iframe1]
That water ends up filthy. The downside is that it takes all the cat hairs. lol

I'm sold. My personal stash is gonna get a wash.

 

[Lost in a SOG]

Maybe if a plant had was a cross of an afghan and a mexican, or had that heritage, and you grew the progeny in a simulated environment of afghanistan then they would show more Afghan gene expression which would display in the terpenes.

You know one thing we never talk about is the effect of temperature swings on soil biomes and balance of strains of bacteria/fungi/protozoa etc in soil in response to conditions indoors and out. When you consider, indoors, people often grow in much smaller and black pots, that absorb all the heat going, loads of people might be messing with that a lot more than we think when growing indoors vs outside..

Also the outdoor grown weed might contain the same terpenes in the end product as an identical indoor grown plant but also have another 10 in there to varying strengths as well muddling the taste. That would probably be secreted to help fight something and ward it off when stressed.

it's like if you are making a meal like a chilli or soup or something and you add a pinch of something and the whole flavoour of the dish changes, it only takes the tiniest amount, and once you get up to having 5-10 different tastes going on you get a brew like effect which is not always pleasant but can be if balance well. I see this often when I make formulas for people.. just a touch of something and the whole blend of plant flavours changes, but if you over complicate the blend with to many herbs the message/flavour/impact of the individual herbs is lessened and made slightly generic.

possibly polyhybrids outside are more likely to do that? because on ACE seeds website they show you the lab tests for terpenes and many since they are nearly pure landraces have very very few terpenes being produced, and they will all be grown outdoors i'm pretty sure.

Oh another thing I just thought is that plants encourage a particular bacterial biome actually on their foliage/fruits and flowers and this could be a big factor.. perhaps indoor conditions are too unnatural for the natural microbiome on the plants to be maintained..

totally spitballing lol

 

[Weird]

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0099641


Understanding Cultivar-Specificity and Soil Determinants of the Cannabis Microbiome

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/124_2016_13


Beneficial Soil Microbiota as Mediators of the Plant Defensive Phenotype and Aboveground Plant-Herbivore Interactions


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S136013851630070X


Bidirectional Interaction between Phyllospheric Microbiotas and Plant Volatile Emissions


tl:dr the most persistent, persuasive and profound plant interactions that effect secondary metabolite production happen in the soil and are microbial

 

[green404]

Like wines you can only find in certain areas, people will travel for specific and extremely high quality cannabis. Can't wait.

I would defiantly pay more for something like that. I think most people would.

Who knows what little nooks and crannies of certain mountain ranges or valleys could produce -the- next primo flowers. Just thinking about it make me think of vivid marketing- sun drenched, spring fed, from the base of the ____ mountains. lol

if a plant produces a terpene that is lost immediately because of harsh environments what adaptive purpose is it serving?

Thant is something to ponder.. Plants don't spend energy for no reason.

I've heard of washing colas, and it's true, the garbage that comes off would surprise you. I've only seen lemon water, and two clean water.

I know a couple of outdoor growers that need to do this. Colorado is dry, dusty and windy, I know a lot of dust/dirt would come off.

Also the outdoor grown weed might contain the same terpenes in the end product as an identical indoor grown plant but also have another 10 in there to varying strengths as well muddling the taste. That would probably be secreted to help fight something and ward it off when stressed.

When I get a better space I would like to do a couple of grows with the same strain in RDWC and outdoor soil and then sit around after harvesting and try to put my finger on the difference.

 

[green404]

I think flat land ganja can tend to be subpar to highland.

This has been my experience also, I have been wondering if it has something to do with the heat deteriorating terpenes.
The best Mexican I have gotten came from the mountains behind Mazatlan and the Michoacan area. I have gotten poor weed from those areas also.

With the amount of seed production visible in brick, it is hard for me to believe to much selection was used, imagine the cross pollination from fields full of males. More of an open pollination of a hybrid, year after year. The earliest males will dominate pollination drifting the line further and further away from a long flowering sativa. Surely they planted seeds from a good female, but personally I lean towards the impression that a lot of the farmers were just cash croppers, who desperately needed the cash.

I do believe the cartels started hybridizing cannabis in the 90s brickweed started getting denser buds as opposed to your average stringy mexi sativa buds.
I got some good brickweed in the 90s(basically any weed exported was made into a brick). The amazing thing about this brickweed was it constantly only had a bout 5-7 seeds in an oz. Most all the seeds would be in the bottom of the buds, not sure if they harvest before the seeds forum or the figured out how to feminize grows with a few hemies here and there ? It was very amazing from Mexican weed.

There was also still a lot of bad brickweed. Some was pure brown, smelled like gas, grease, dirt. One time I looking for some smoke and a friend said he could get some but it smelled like a woman's crotch. Their was nothing else so I bought it, sure enough it smelled like a woman's crotch, we smoked it and it got us high/Mexican brickweed.

A little more Big Sur nostalgia. I remember getting bags of "Grape," in Big Sur way prior to even the start of the "Grapes" fad of purple urkle/GDP. The "Grape" from Big Sur, was completely light green, and a bit on the shaggy thin leaning hybrid leaf side. Although it to, leaves and all, absolutely dripped of resin and had the most heavenly subtle grape flavor and smell.

I have heard stories of Big Sur cannabis I would love to try some one of these days. The urkle and purps and some of my favorite indica dominate strains