What do you think is happening to my plants?

[fartsniffer12]

Hi All-

I am a first time grower having problems. I would love if you could help me assess what is wrong with my plants so I can fix it. Here's some information about my setup.

Hydroponic DWC indoor grow with air stone and micro, bloom & grow nutrients switched out weekly.

Well ventilated with average temperature of 78°F. (1) 300w (168w actual) LED hydro galaxy grow light.

(3) OG Kush plants currently starting 4th week of flowering. PH checked regularly, and typically ran high at 7. I was using lemons to adjust PH, but PH would creep back up quickly after adjusting. I just switched water out tonight with nutes and adjusted PH to 5.8 using PH down (earth juice).

2 weeks ago I started seeing yellowing of the leaves, and it spread rapidly. I guessed it was a nitrogen deficiency due to the PH being too high. I pruned the yellow and dead leaves tonight and took a picture to help try and solve this.

I've included some photos of the plants when they were younger so you can see the progression. Any information on how I can fix this would be really appreciated.. Thanks!

 

[ceausescu]

I have only grown in soil no experience in DWC growing.But it looks like N def to me.
So maybe they lacking some N ore its a ph lockout.
I always had ph related nutrient lockout because of ph down solutions that bulit up in my soil.Since i use ph correcting nutrients and no ph down solution everything is ok.
Try adding some nutes with NPK like 4-4-3 or 4-4-4 without the ph down hope this helps
PS are your roots heathy?

 

[fartsniffer12]

Roots are healthy. N was provided regularly.

Why does PH down affect how nutrients are absorbed?

 

[ceausescu]

Well it builds up in te soil and is hard to flush out.And it keeps lowering the ph of the soil causing nutrient lockout.It might be different in DWC but it might build up ass well in your reservoir.
Did you try to up the nutrients?

 

[/sunglasses]

your plants are very hungry. yes pH affects the uptake of nutrients. high pH wouldn't cause a N def since N is best absorbed at higher pH. my guess is you should check your pH again because it might be lower than what you think. if thats not the issue then you need to up the food.

 

[/sunglasses]

one more thing to note, having all those lights on and your cabinets open like that in the daytime is very wasteful.

 

[Siever]

it's also possible you've fed them too much

 

[growaway]

Nice stealthy little setup ya got there friend! Looks a little like early sequestering of nutrient from your foliage because of root zone uptake issues. Lots of anthocyanins in your petioles and stems too. This could be strain related but given your other symptoms i hazard its all related. 'P' lockout secondary to cold air and/or nutrient temps and salt build up are commonly the cause of this for me. I agree with other members that N uptake is also occuring so salt build up is prob more likely of the two. I can see a little salt build up on your expanded clay also. Calcium sulphate most likely. Check your minimum temps and solution temp are not too low and give the system a "flush" and then feed at normal strength again would be advice. Your bud development seems reasonable so unless she defoliates rapidly, you should be ok. Love to see some follow ups if you get a chance. Cheers.

 

[growaway]

Nice stealthy little setup ya got there friend! Looks a little like early sequestering of nutrient from your foliage because of root zone uptake issues. Lots of anthocyanins in your petioles and stems too. This could be strain related but given your other symptoms i hazard its all related. 'P' lockout secondary to cold air and/or nutrient temps and salt build up are commonly the cause of this for me. I agree with other members that N uptake is also occuring so salt build up is prob more likely of the two. I can see a little salt build up on your expanded clay also. Calcium sulphate most likely. Check your minimum temps and solution temp are not too low and give the system a "flush" and then feed at normal strength again would be advice. Your bud development seems reasonable so unless she defoliates rapidly, you should be ok. Love to see some follow ups if you get a chance. Cheers.

Edit: N deficiency i meant, not 'uptake'.

 

[Scrappy-doo]

You are having nutrient uptake issue friend. Has your ph always creeped up like it currently does? If so consider mixing 50/50 ro or distlled water with your tap and ph will be easier to manage. If not, then you want to seriously take a 2nd look at your roots, or post a pic of them. Algae or pythium (root rot) are associated with rising ph. Your roots should be sparkling white and crisp. If there's any brown or slime, or your roots feel soggy or soft to the touch, you likely have root rot. If you have tiny bubbles lining the edges of your water line in your buckets you have algae. If your roots look great then most likely your problem is either ph too high or improper amount or ratio of nutes.

 

[Dropped Cat]

Two of my plants have the same symptoms, in coco.

Cold temps, root rot. I cannot adjust my temps, so I
am also seeking a way out of the dilemma.

subbed

 

[Jason Voorhees]

Lol first time I've seen someone growing in a cabinet in their kitchen.

 

[iTarzan]

It might be in the teachers lounge at school.

 

[fartsniffer12]

Nice stealthy little setup ya got there friend! Looks a little like early sequestering of nutrient from your foliage because of root zone uptake issues. Lots of anthocyanins in your petioles and stems too. This could be strain related but given your other symptoms i hazard its all related. 'P' lockout secondary to cold air and/or nutrient temps and salt build up are commonly the cause of this for me. I agree with other members that N uptake is also occuring so salt build up is prob more likely of the two. I can see a little salt build up on your expanded clay also. Calcium sulphate most likely. Check your minimum temps and solution temp are not too low and give the system a "flush" and then feed at normal strength again would be advice. Your bud development seems reasonable so unless she defoliates rapidly, you should be ok. Love to see some follow ups if you get a chance. Cheers.

Thanks Growaway! I posted this question on three different forums:

I love growing marijuana

This forum, and Roll it Up

I got about ten responses in total with possible issues ranging from: PH too high, PH fluctuations, too much PH down, feeding too much, feeding too little, poor nutrient brand choice, K deficiency, Needed CalMag, too small of a space, too high (or low) ppm, air pump too small to aerate roots, and Nutrient uptake at roots.

It was a little frustrating to get so many contrasting responses, but it prompted some research on my end, and I am inclined to agree with growaway's response.

Here's a little more info: My reservoir and air temps are both 77.9°F. I have always used 100% RO water. My roots do appear to be showing some signs of rootrot, although I can't be sure that they aren't just stained from nutrients... I have attached a couple pics of the roots. Do these look rotten?

I know in future grows, I will add additional air stones in the reservoir. Does Hydroguard do anything to prevent or cure root rot? Also is 78° too hot for the reservoir temp? How long should I "flush" the system, for a day? Or should I just keep running clean water through? Also should I clean out the reservoir?

Thanks all for the info! Any other advice you can provide would be helpful.

 

[Red Bear]

are you completely dumping the rez every 7-10 days? and mixing new nutrients?
are you topping off every other day with plain water not mixed nutes...

when i did DWC i learned that Sometimes they eat more than they drink and Sometimes they drink more than they eat... depends on temp, humidity, growth stage...

if you dont completely dump the rez every 7-10 days and make a new mix you will get messed up npk ratios and nutrient lockout. also top off with plain water in case its hot in there and they drink more than they eat. you will learn when to change nutes and how strong to mix them by watching through the week this way.

roots should be whiter... maybe too warm in rez and not enough airstones/ bigger pump. pump air can get hot too, rez temps in the 60-70F would be better. enzymes help with root rot like House and garden multi zen. not sure about hydroguard...
jokingly though it could be magnetic RF waves or whtever from the microwave, LoL...

 

[dimebag_]

Thanks Growaway! I posted this question on three different forums:

I love growing marijuana

This forum, and Roll it Up

I got about ten responses in total with possible issues ranging from: PH too high, PH fluctuations, too much PH down, feeding too much, feeding too little, poor nutrient brand choice, K deficiency, Needed CalMag, too small of a space, too high (or low) ppm, air pump too small to aerate roots, and Nutrient uptake at roots.

It was a little frustrating to get so many contrasting responses, but it prompted some research on my end, and I am inclined to agree with growaway's response.

Here's a little more info: My reservoir and air temps are both 77.9°F. I have always used 100% RO water. My roots do appear to be showing some signs of rootrot, although I can't be sure that they aren't just stained from nutrients... I have attached a couple pics of the roots. Do these look rotten?

I know in future grows, I will add additional air stones in the reservoir. Does Hydroguard do anything to prevent or cure root rot? Also is 78° too hot for the reservoir temp? How long should I "flush" the system, for a day? Or should I just keep running clean water through? Also should I clean out the reservoir?

Thanks all for the info! Any other advice you can provide would be helpful.

Fartsniff-looks like pythium(root rot) to me. I'm dealing with pythium in a ebb n flow set-up at the moment. I read that dwc is the easiest way to get it, especially with minimal experience. I have been growing over 10 years, and this is my first time battling it. Its a real c.u.n.t.

Any resi water temps above like 74 degrees fahrenheit make a perfect environment for pythium to spread, as it is a opportunistic water borne pathogen that is always around. You can get it just from over watering and/or high resi temps. Plants start to wilt, lower leaves get yellow, and crispy, and die. Roots will be brown and kinda slimy, and have a kinda rotten smell. Entire plant will eventually die or at least stop growing, and kinda shrivel up.

Maybe check out some pythium threads on here and see if it looks like the same issue. I hope that its not that for your sake. Its a real PITA to get rid of, and stunts growth or kills your plants.
I just lost a harvie from half my plants dying first week of flower, and the rest stunted beyond recovery.

I have recently been trying OG tea Veganic special sauce (got some free samples) after a few days of running oxygenator(H2o2). The H2o2 was to kill the pythium, the og tea is beneficial microbes to try to beef up the rootzone with microbial activity. I also am ordering some re-charge by realgrowers.com. More beneficials to try n save my crop. Its only been a couple days since adding the go tea so no results just yet. Your local shop might have some og tea samples-mine did.

I've also added airstones to try n aerate the resi more. Pythium is an anaerobic bacteria, meaning it does't like a lot of oxygen in its environment. So airstones and H2o2 are supposed to help with that.

good luck you fart sniffing s.o.b.! I hope this helps! Hit me back if you have any more questions about pythium. I'm becoming an expert…ha

-dbag

 

[_tessarecting]

H202 wont kill pythium, as far as I know nothing does, but dutchmaster zone will at least prevent new roots from getting it. I have a bit on some of mine right now too. I dont want to use a fungicide but hey you do what you gotta do.

 

[dimebag_]

H202 wont kill pythium, as far as I know nothing does, but dutchmaster zone will at least prevent new roots from getting it. I have a bit on some of mine right now too. I dont want to use a fungicide but hey you do what you gotta do.

tessarecting-I'm not a biologist, or a botonist, but everything I read says that H2o2 kills pythium, but its just not a 100% effective cuz it dissipates within 48 hrs. Its not a cure, it just kills any bacteria it comes in contact with. So if it misses some of the pythium bacteria, then the bacteria can still spread again. It is better used as a preventative measure, than to fix the problem. But I still believe it can help, temporarily. I think that ramping up the beneficials is prob the best approach. Thats what I'm trying now.

I've also read that bleach(chlorine) will kill pythium as well, at I think at 100 ppms (less than 1 ml. per gal) after 20 min. exposure. This was from an actual scientic report. Chlorine kills 99.9% of all bacteria. I forget the exact dilution rate. But its like .08 ml per gallon or something-or like 8 drops per gallon. You can actually purify water for drinking using this method. I tried the clorox couple months ago, flooding my sick plants with it and cleaning trays. Plants that received it bounced back after couple weeks. But I'm kinda over using it unless its completely necessary. Using the H2o2 is kinda like using a mellower version of bleach, except it leaves no residue.

just my $.02

db-

 

[growaway]

Hi Fartsniffer (giggle),
as you have found, providing foliage photos will get you every answer under the sun. Showing pics of your rootzone, foliar zone and a description of your conditions will help alot but is still asking for best guesses at most. When i was an IPM consultant, i refused to suggest diagnosis or treatment options until i had seen plant material and growing conditions first hand as photos and description are always insufficient. The best growing assistant you can have is keeping excellent records of your grow, changing things if not working and recording and learning from the results of those changes. Try to develop a feeling for growing things generally. Nobody became a great painter by painting one or two pictures. Same for growing. Hang with it friend, it gets easier and the rewards for eventually troubleshooting your own issues is tremendous.
Now to your problem at hand, unfortunately it would appear you do have a fungal infection of your root system. Pythium sp. are commonly the culprits but Rhizoctonia, Phytophthora and other pathogens can all colonise the root zone of cannabis. As soiless systems of growing often present little natural competition to these nasty pathogens development, they can multiply rapidly and cause significant or fatal injuries to your root zone. One solution as you have asked, is the use of beneficial microbes to compete with the bad guys for food and prevent or reduce their damage. Hydrogaurd is an example of this. Mycorrhizals also assist with nutrient uptake and waste disposal, so adding them to your nutrient solution may absolutely be of benefit. Other strategies include providing an environment that the pathogens find it harder to take hold in. They often thrive in warmer low oxygen solutions (like a stagnant creek) so having a cool, oxygen rich nutrient solution will be of help also. Solution at 18-22C and using airstone enrichment for example. Peroxide will bleach your roots nicely but doesnt really have any hard data to prove its efficiency in infection treatment. There are also commercial fungicides but i would never advise a cannabis home grower to head down this road, but thats your call of course.
So, rootzone at the right temp with more air stones, add beneficials at the correct concentration, change solution frequently (depending on size of reservoir/bucket), and grow strong healthy plants to resist.
78f is bout 25c in my money, i prefer to feed at 22c which is 72f, doesnt seem like much but can make a difference as the previous member said. Too cold and you will encourage different but just as damaging pathogens! Looking at my own records, the sweet spot for non-solid media grows for me has been 21-22c (70-72F). I would change to 72f plain 6.0 water and let it circ for 2 hours. Drain and repeat. Then clean everything you can clean and refill with half strength nutrient solution with Hydrogaurd or similar added. I have used Trichoderma based beneficials before in non-solid media with success also. Hydrogaurd does seem well respected in your part of the world and is probably less troublesome. Well worth a try. I've seen many infections in RO watered crops, it helps of course, but there are so many ways you can cross contaminate your rootzone other than with your stock water.
Sick roots just aren't efficient water and nutrient transporters/storers as your leaf symptoms show. You may continue to lose leaves while you recover, not much you can do.
I apologize for the the freaking wall of text but hope this is of help,
cheers and good luck!

 

[Ganoderma]

Thanks Growaway! I posted this question on three different forums:

I love growing marijuana

This forum, and Roll it Up

I got about ten responses in total with possible issues ranging from: PH too high, PH fluctuations, too much PH down, feeding too much, feeding too little, poor nutrient brand choice, K deficiency, Needed CalMag, too small of a space, too high (or low) ppm, air pump too small to aerate roots, and Nutrient uptake at roots.

It was a little frustrating to get so many contrasting responses, but it prompted some research on my end, and I am inclined to agree with growaway's response.

Here's a little more info: My reservoir and air temps are both 77.9°F. I have always used 100% RO water. My roots do appear to be showing some signs of rootrot, although I can't be sure that they aren't just stained from nutrients... I have attached a couple pics of the roots. Do these look rotten?

I know in future grows, I will add additional air stones in the reservoir. Does Hydroguard do anything to prevent or cure root rot? Also is 78° too hot for the reservoir temp? How long should I "flush" the system, for a day? Or should I just keep running clean water through? Also should I clean out the reservoir?

Thanks all for the info! Any other advice you can provide would be helpful.

Is that how high you've been keeping the water level? You should lower it a little. Your roots look over saturated. The upper root zone needs to be dryer then the root zone is. Your net pots shouldn't be setting in the solution at this stage. If they are drinking water, I'll let the water level (on my stuff) come up a little higher because the plant(s) will drink it up with in a day.

Your first pictures of the leaves look like a N def, but after seeing you're water level and roots I think that may be where your problem is coming from, or at least part of it.