What causes green leaves to fall off at a light touch?

[DocTim420]

My experience is, synthetic sourced Si (Potassium Silicate) will usually have a higher ratio of Plant Available Silica:Available Silica, but synthetic sourced Si is also absorbed by the plant in greater amounts (based on tissue analysis). A common characteristic that most synthetic nutrients have.

Whereas plants treated with food grade Diatomaceous Earth (non-synthetic source of Silica) contained slightly lower levels of SI, but still substantial amounts of PAS. But peculiar to food grade DE, analysis indicated there were also greater levels of plant available calcium, magnesium, phosphorus and potassium (something that plants treated with Potassium Silicate did not indicate). Nice bonus--a simple symmetry between DE and Ca, Mg, P, & K allows me to use less without any sacrifice.

 

[OG Expressions]

I've seen a lot of people posting about adding silicates for stem strength issues as well. This is my first real grow so I'm trying to set a sort of baseline of what to expect, but that sounds like something I will try down the road to get a solid comparison with. Thanks for the infos.

I use 2.5 ml per gal protect i use it for the plants benefit as well as my own it makes my ph more stable i find. Its also easier to ph correct solution that has it vs not. I actually just use .5 ml more ph down and i hit 5.5 perfectly.

Its cheap, easy and i use it with every water its good shit

 

[Ratzilla]

I am full organic and I remember a time when using rain water that I was putting a 1/4 tsp/ gal. of dolomite lime (calcium and magnesium)in the rain water thinking that the rain water was devoid of any minerals.
After about a month of this watering regime I started to notice bottom leaves if touch in the slightest would fall from the plant.
After stopping this 1/4 tsp of dolomite in the rain this problem went away.
I concluded that the calcium and magnesium infusion was locking out the potassium.
Note that K competes with both Ca. and Mg. for uptake.
I also started to mix rice hulls into my mix which brought in potassium silica.
I have not seen this leaf dropping since.
Ratz

 

[AgentPothead]

I am full organic and I remember a time when using rain water that I was putting a 1/4 tsp/ gal. of dolomite lime (calcium and magnesium)in the rain water thinking that the rain water was devoid of any minerals.
After about a month of this watering regime I started to notice bottom leaves if touch in the slightest would fall from the plant.
After stopping this 1/4 tsp of dolomite in the rain this problem went away.
I concluded that the calcium and magnesium infusion was locking out the potassium.
Note that K competes with both Ca. and Mg. for uptake.
I also started to mix rice hulls into my mix which brought in potassium silica.
I have not seen this leaf dropping since.
Ratz

My tap water comes out at 60ppm so I was adding Calimagic, that might have caused K lockout I guess, I have been adding it every feeding.

 

[Ratzilla]

While 60 ppm doesn't sound like much?
Its the CEC of the mix and what cations it is holding on too.
I do know that the Ca. molecule is a big one ,think of a hugely obese person sitting on a little stole at a counter.
Know that because of its size it is harder to move it off of the CEC so it is possible that a fresh influx of say calcium on a daily basis could be taking up most of the EC sites.
I have longed stopped using any Cal-Mag in my water in favor of not upsetting the balance of the mix.
Ratz

 

[AgentPothead]

While 60 ppm doesn't sound like much?
Its the CEC of the mix and what cations it is holding on too.
I do know that the Ca. molecule is a big one ,think of a hugely obese person sitting on a little stole at a counter.
Know that because of its size it is harder to move it off of the CEC so it is possible that a fresh influx of say calcium on a daily basis could be taking up most of the EC sites.
I have longed stopped using any Cal-Mag in my water in favor of not upsetting the balance of the mix.
Ratz

I'm running coco atm so I'm pretty sure I have to add some calcium.

 

[Ratzilla]

I also use a coir mix.
I am a firm believer in Albrecht's mineral balance agriculture.
Lets not forget Carey Reams also.
Both believed that 60-70% of ones base saturation of the mix should hold calcium.
Others as well.
So yea plenty of calcium in the mix.
But not so much in solution so I think.
By the way I don't think 60PPM of calcium is to much.
Just wanted to get you thinking about your base saturation and the CEC .
How I see it.

Ratz

 

[Noonin NorCal]

If the "cell tissues" of your plant's stem/stalks are weak, then their cell walls might be thinner than most. If that is the case, then providing "Plant Available Silica" (PAS) can increase the cell wall thickness causing weaker stems that normally require support to stand on their on...no staking required.

In my garden, I had a particular strain that...if the stem was bent accidentally while topdressing, the sucker would snap half. After adding copious of amorphous silica to my custom grow medium, the stems appeared larger in diameter and instead of snapping in half when bent, they bounced back...standing tall.

Since your plants are already in the grow medium, I would investigate Potassium Silicate and make weekly root drenches (1.25ml/gallon rate is what I use) and consider foliar spraying with it as well.
Silica can do many things...include thickening the plant tissues' cell walls.

Thats what i was gonna say, give them silica

 

[AgentPothead]

I also use a coir mix.
I am a firm believer in Albrecht's mineral balance agriculture.
Lets not forget Carey Reams also.
Both believed that 60-70% of ones base saturation of the mix should hold calcium.
Others as well.
So yea plenty of calcium in the mix.
But not so much in solution so I think.
By the way I don't think 60PPM of calcium is to much.
Just wanted to get you thinking about your base saturation and the CEC .
How I see it.

Ratz

Sorry if was confusing, I tend to post stoned My tap water comes out at 60ppm but I am using I believe 15 ml calimagic for 4 gallons. I'm not sure what the ppm was with just calimagic added, but it was somewhere around 1100 with all of my other nutrients added. This was my first real grow, and I feel like I'm learning a ton from it, so even if it doesn't turn out incredible, it's more knowledge for the long run, so thanks for all the information from you guys who actually know the science.

 

[DocTim420]

Not sure if cal mag is very good at strengthening plant stems (or specifically--thickening the cell walls of your plant).

 

[DocTim420]

Sorry for the back-to-back post...but let me drop a few bread crumbs towards a path that might be helpful https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4828433/

Silicon (Si) is one of the most abundant elements on earth. Although not considered essential for the growth and development of higher plants, it is nonetheless known to increase vigor and to play protective roles. Its protective effects include for instance alleviation of (a)biotic stress damages and heavy metal toxicity. Si was shown to interact with several components of the plant cell walls in the form of silica (SiO2). In plants SiO2 promotes strengthening of the cell walls and provides increased mechanical support to the aerial parts. The relationship SiO2-plant cell wall has been well documented in monocots and pteridophytes, which are known Si accumulators, while much less is known on the interaction of Si with the cell walls of dicots. We here provide a concise up-to-date survey on the interaction between Si and plant cell wall components by focussing on cellulose, hemicelluloses, callose, pectins, lignin, and proteins. We also describe the effects of Si on cell wall-related processes by discussing the published results in both monocots and dicots. We conclude our survey with a description of the possible mechanisms by which Si exerts priming in plants.

 

[AgentPothead]

Sorry for the back-to-back post...but let me drop a few bread crumbs towards a path that might be helpful https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4828433/

NP bro is great information thanks.

 

[AgentPothead]

I think it's too late this grow for the silicon, but I have stopped supplementing calimagic in case it was calcium causing lockout like Ratzilla suggested, and I haven't had a noticeable problem sense then, so fingers crossed you nailed this one, thanks man.

 

[Mogli]

you cant overwater with coco .
humidity can case it if you dont have oxygen in the water

 

[AgentPothead]

you cant overwater with coco .
humidity can case it if you dont have oxygen in the water

Once roots are established, yes from my understanding you cannot overwater. But starting off, if you have a seedling in a coco pot you have to be careful because it is possible to overwater before their roots are established.

 

[f-e]

I think it's K. Ca can be the cause of the K problem.

Sorry I'm late

 

[AgentPothead]

I definitely think it was the calcium causing potassium lockout.

 

[PDX Dopesmoker]

That picture should be labelled high octane nightmare fuel. I feel itchy just looking at it.

Thanks, I had to end up pitching the clone those little fellas came in on and treating the rest of my plants for russet mites that summer and every summer since then, but I did get some nice photos out of the deal.

 

['Boogieman']

When I first started growing I would leave plants in a small pot for too long and they would get root bound and the leaves would easily pluck off or just fall off.