What are the Effects of MUSIC on plants? Study...

[TheGreenBastard]

Just because they don't hear music like humans doesn't mean there aren't effects.

You seem intent on "hearing" and "emotion".

You are not a plant.

A narrow view isn't conducive to seeing things you previously missed.

I couldn't care less about emotion (as plants have none), I was simply responding to the comment elbarracho made.

As for hearing, of course I'm intent on it, it is the bases of this discussion. The fact is plants can't hear, I am not saying they cannot react to vibrating stimuli, perhaps their is a process similar to that of a fishes lateral line at work; though, in this case, their is certainly no organ or specialized structure responsible.

A narrow view isn't conducive to seeing things you previously missed.

If you could provide some scientific research suggesting plants are capable of responding to sound with information as to how, I might be more willing to 'widen' my view.

This is a fairly interesting NatGeo Documentary about plants and their sensory abilities:
http://www.megavideo.com/?d=ULJHVD76

At ~38:45 and it goes over sound.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

There isn't a lot of research in this area, perhaps due to grant givers thinking along the same lines as you do.

Vibrations in the form of wind have increased ethylene production, resulting in thicker stems.

Speaking or singing to plants would give them vibrations and CO2, neither of which is a bad thing.

I'm simply naysaying your naysaying.

Any acceptance is certainly up to the individual.

 

[Richard Head]

edited by the editor

 

[TheGreenBastard]

No plant is capable of emotion, come on, I thought human civilization had advanced far enough that we stopped believing in rubbish like that. How can a organism without a FUCKING NERVOUS SYSTEM have emotion, let alone think. This is preposterous, its the 21st century, we have phenomenal understanding of the world around us and people still consider these ridiculous notions. Any (sane) botanist can tell you a plant is incapable of thought and emotion, THEY HAVE NO BRAIN, ITS A PLANT. I know we tend to use words that personify our plants like "My girls are really happy" but no one actually takes that seriously right? Some of you need a serious lesson in biology. Next your going to tell me a fungus can get its feelings hurt.

I'm sorry to use these terms, but, that is some hippy bullshit.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Man has always assumed he's understood.

He's also thrown a lot of babies out with a lot of bath water.

I've taken a few biology classes... but I'm also some hippie bullshit.

Be careful what and how you consider and why you don't.

No plant is capable of emotion, come on, I thought human civilization had advanced far enough that we stopped believing in rubbish like that.

I know we tend to use words that personify our plants like "My girls are really happy" but no one actually takes that seriously right?

A narrow view isn't conducive to seeing things you previously missed.

 

[BasementBreeder]

No plant is capable of emotion, come on, I thought human civilization had advanced far enough that we stopped believing in rubbish like that. How can a organism without a FUCKING NERVOUS SYSTEM have emotion, let alone think. This is preposterous, its the 21st century, we have phenomenal understanding of the world around us and people still consider these ridiculous notions. Any (sane) botanist can tell you a plant is incapable of thought and emotion, THEY HAVE NO BRAIN, ITS A PLANT. I know we tend to use words that personify our plants like "My girls are really happy" but no one actually takes that seriously right? Some of you need a serious lesson in biology. Next your going to tell me a fungi can get its feelings hurt.

I'm sorry to use these terms, but, that is some hippy bullshit.

agreed. Incredible claims require incredible evidence(of which there is none, afaik).

edit: on topic, if there is anything to be gained from music it is almost certainly due to vibrations/energy from sound waves. I can't imagine the actual content of the music having an effect.

 

[TheGreenBastard]

Be careful what and how you consider and why you don't.

I consider these these things very carefully, which is why I use science as a bases for my opinions. To not use an established method of reasoning is to guess. We have known this since at least 384 BC (the birth of Aristotle).

I am fully open to new discoveries, though only those excepted by the scientific community under the scientific method.

A narrow view isn't conducive to seeing things you previously missed.

You call it a narrow view, I call it a logical one.

 

[Buffoonman]

Just because things do not have a current scientific explanation doesn't mean its not so. Better to leave yourself open to all manner of explanations certainly more interesting.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

So if plants have no brain why do they perform logically?

I could argue plants' conciousness simply by phototropic response.

Are you telling me that plants aren't happy because they don't have dopamine receptors?

 

[mean mr.mustard]

I consider these these things very carefully, which is why I use science as a bases for my opinions. To not use an established method of reasoning is to guess. We have known this since at least 384 BC (the birth of Aristotle).

Plato and Aristotle both believed the heart to be the seat of the emotional soul and the liver to be the seat of the natural or vegetative soul, and that these two organs governed the others' functions. Aristotle postulated that the brain was used to cool the blood...

I logically deduce they were guessing.

What established method of reasoning do you think they were using exactly?

 

[Max Headroom]

this is slightly OT, but this video illustrates what amazing "order-creating" effects sound waves can have on sand, liquids, etc.

"Cymatics"
_http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8486100130300700161#

it is also known that low frequency sounds can be bad for human health

and let's not forget the use of "sonic weapons" for crowd control in recent years.

methinks there is much more to sound/music than we generally acknowledge.

 

[DocLeaf]

I can't imagine the actual content of the music having an effect.

subliminal bass (that which you can't hear) is totally different to string concertos, which differs from beakbeat. Not to mention lyrical differences.

 

[FatBlunt420]

i play death metal drums everyday, and i still grow big beautiful plants.
id like to believe its not true,,, im a true metal head, so the switch to classical is not an option for me.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

i play death metal drums everyday, and i still grow big beautiful plants.
id like to believe its not true,,, im a true metal head, so the switch to classical is not an option for me.

I think this is what it comes down to.

Life is easier if we can live in the world we knew yesterday, but advances take us into uncharted, uncomfortable territory.

I'm sure that there are vegetarians out there that have chosen not to eat meat because animals feel pain and don't want to die.

If someone showed them that plants heal where wounded, put their children first, and love sunny days as much as we do... what would they eat??

Life is life. Similarities abound on this planet between all creatures, great and small. We don't need to be arrogant, we need to pay attention.

 

[gOurd^jr.]

I highly reccomend checking out the work of Dr. Masuro Emoto from Japan. He conducted many experiments and has spent the majority of his life researching the effects of emotion, thought/intent, music, prayer and more on the crystalline structure of water. I have read his recent book titled "The Hidden Messages in Water". Here is a short video showing some of his photographs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1-0ulKgmio&feature=related
In a nutshell he found that water exposed to "positive" words or phrases(taped to a jar of water) formed organized some might say beautiful crystallin structures. water exposed to "negative" words of phrases did not form a crystalline structure at all. Similar results found when water subjected to classical music tended to form highly organized crystals while water exposed to heavy metal again did not crystalize. Water from the polluted fujiwara dam did not show crystalline structure. After I believe ~1hr. being prayed upon by a monk of group of monks(don't recall) (chanting as well I believe) it then formed organized crystals.
debunk his research all you want, or try replicating his rice experiment for yourself like countless others. THIS HAS BEEN REPLICATED MANY MANY TIMES. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTz-cYk9Wu4&feature=related

Also for green bastard and those who share his Science trumps all ideology, Check out the film, "What the Bleep do we Know" features interviews with many university professors, PHd's, quantum phyisicists and well respected academics as well as various spiritual teachers, "gurus" whatever. Just because science can not currently explain something does not make it any less true or real. and as was already pointed out science has found itself to be "wrong" for years in many instances...

 

[gOurd^jr.]

@FAtBlunt420
I happen to believe that the energy of your intention can basically trump your music choice when it comes to your plants. If you love heavy metal and you exude positivity when your around your plants listening to and playing heavy metal, I think the plants can pick up on this and may "learn" to like it too. If you can't stand classical music but play it for your plants anyways. Then when your around the plants your gritting your teeth and wondering why the hell your playing that crap for them, I doubt you'd see benefits. I love classical music and I play it loud in the house often for the benefit of my plants and myself. I sing to my plants. I play them didjeridoo and offer them prayers of gratitude and love. Then again I am often referred to as a dirty hippie...

 

[mean mr.mustard]

 

[BasementBreeder]

subliminal bass (that which you can't hear) is totally different to string concertos, which differs from beakbeat. Not to mention lyrical differences.

Each of those is just a different sound wave(ie, different frequency and amplitude), so they'll have different energy and vibrations associated with them. As for lyrics, do you really think that saying, with the exact frequency and amplitude, "F*** you plants" vs "I love you plants" (or whatever lyrical differences)would make a difference? I don't.

mean mr.mustard,

phototropism is no more associated with consciousness than the fact that you tan when exposed to uv. It's just chemical reactions.


As to people saying that us 'science' guys need to be more open minded...Scientists have no problem saying "we dont' know"(ie, pre big bang). We can also admit we're wrong when we are presented with credible evidence. However, no true scientist goes about claiming a truth without evidence, which is what we have going on here.

Remember that the burden of proof is on the person making the claim. So I ask, does anyone have any evidence that plants have emotion/thought capabilities?

lol at youtube video experiments as evidence.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Conciousness is just chemical reactions. Emotions are chemical reactions. Thought is chemical reactions. Does that mean they aren't real? If you boil it down we are a bunch of dancing dust. It's the dance that interests me.

I'm a scientist. I also think everyone could benefit from being open minded.

Who's claiming what now?

 

[BasementBreeder]

Conciousness is just chemical reactions. Emotions are chemical reactions. Thought is chemical reactions. Does that mean they aren't real? If you boil it down we are a bunch of dancing dust. It's the dance that interests me.

I'm a scientist. I also think everyone could benefit from being open minded.

Who's claiming what now?

Certainly. We are all just a combination of subatomic particles. However, we must draw a line somewhere between basic chemical reactions and the extreme complexities of the central nervous system. Basically, when I think of consciousness, I think of the ability to make choices. You don't choose to darken your skin. Plants don't choose to move towards light.

I agree that people could benefit from being open minded. That doesn't mean people should believe without evidence though.

elbarracho seems to believe plants have emotions. I actually thought you were on board with that view too, but after rereading your posts I now see that you just like to argue/debate.

Do you personally believe that plants have emotions and/or are conscious?

This thread has gotten off topic. I will post no more about scientists, consciousness, etc in this thread. PM me if you want to continue this convo