What advice would you give a novice breeder?

[Wendull C.]

You have been given some good advice.

Dont put up with deleterious traits just to save traits you deem desirable.

I just scrapped a whole blue moonshine s1 and crossed to bty og because of ten to twenty percent Hermy prone plants. Some only showed under stress and some of the plants were wonderful clone only types not breeding material.

I still scraped em all. My partner that didn't is on his second seeded crop due to mislabeling issues while he was on mandatory "vacation". A couple plants he thought were true females had Male flowers indide.

Who would've thought?

 

[zif]

Don’t forget to read at least a couple of books by real plant breeders. Treat every forum tip as suspect until proven otherwise. The signal to noise ratio is awfully poor when it comes to breeding.

Carol Deppe’s ‘Breed Your Own Vegetable Varieties’ is excellent for the basics and will get you pumped to breed squash & beans & corn while you’re at it.

Allard’s ‘Principles of Plant Breeding’, 1st edition is the gold standard of traditional plant breeding texts with excellent chapters on the challenges of working with outcrossing species. The 2nd edition is good, too, but very different.

 

[Water-]

I'm not asking or in it for the monetary gain, please keep all snarky comments to yourself unless you have something positive to contribute to this thread beyond sarcasm.

I'm more so on preserving lines, working with landraces, producing something unique! Anybody could pollen chuck, that's not what my aim is.

you said you wanted to start a company.

people start companies to make money.

all you will be doing is ripping people off because you have no idea what you are doing.

you saw the price of seeds and you saw $$$ flash before your eyes.

it takes years of experience to be a plant breeder and sell your gear with any integrity

you are dreaming.

if you want to offer something unique than get on a plane and go find it.

 

[Truthful]

If you haven't been growing for atleast 7 yrs or more I really wouldn't consider breeding for sells but if you have I'm sure that you've stocked up on a nice collection of stable killer genetics to work with by now.

There's A the right way, the way it's supposed to be done and then there's B the way almost 90% of these seed companies are doing it today....lmao why even go about things the right way when there's enough idiots walking around willing to drop $500+ on untested beans as long as you're mixing "IT" strain #1 with the 1st male you find in a pack of expensive polyhybrid beans, get some fancy labels to put on some of those shiny vacuum sealed mylar bags and you're ready for business. $$$$

Seriously though, knowledge is key the more knowledge you have the better off you'll be and good luck new breeders popping up outta everywhere to catch a wave of the marijuana gold rush.

 

[Smoke_A_Lot]

next!

next!

you said you wanted to start a company.

people start companies to make money.

all you will be doing is ripping people off because you have no idea what you are doing.

you saw the price of seeds and you saw $$$ flash before your eyes.

it takes years of experience to be a plant breeder and sell your gear with any integrity

you are dreaming.

if you want to offer something unique than get on a plane and go find it.

First of all buddy I'd be in it for the art & science of creating some unique strains not to my benefit but to the benefit of others and contributing to the canna scene.

Who are you to tell me what my motivations are? You don't know me or my passions.
Don't shit on my vision, just because you don't see what i do.

& Yes it does take years of experience to be a good breeder, just as it does with anything else in life.
That's why I'm here trying to gain insights and learn from others who know better than i do & are willing to teach instead of throwing out wild accusations.

Take for example DJ Short or Subcool, they didn't become who they were over night - they did their homework, put in hard work & eventually gained a following.

"I'm dreaming" - That's what they said about astronauts going to the moon. But as they say if there's a will, there's a way!
Good thing proper breeding isn't as difficult as space travel, although you may not see it that way in your limited scope you put on display.

As i said previously if you don't have anything useful to contribute to this thread then don't post in it. I'm not here for piss matches & dick measuring contests - I'm here to learn.

 

[Water-]

First of all buddy I'd be in it for the art & science of creating some unique strains not to my benefit but to the benefit of others and contributing to the canna scene.

Who are you to tell me what my motivations are? You don't know me or my passions.
Don't shit on my vision, just because you don't see what i do.

& Yes it does take years of experience to be a good breeder, just as it does with anything else in life.
That's why I'm here trying to gain insights and learn from others who know better than i do & are willing to teach instead of throwing out wild accusations.

Take for example DJ Short or Subcool, they didn't become who they were over night - they did their homework, put in hard work & eventually gained a following.

"I'm dreaming" - That's what they said about astronauts going to the moon. But as they say if there's a will, there's a way!
Good thing proper breeding isn't as difficult as space travel, although you may not see it that way in your limited scope you put on display.

As i said previously if you don't have anything useful to contribute to this thread then don't post in it. I'm not here for piss matches & dick measuring contests - I'm here to learn.

If you want to learn then put in the time and do it.

What you read will help you but you actually have to do it yourself to get good at it.

your post was this:

"What advice would you give a novice breeder?

PARTICULARLY ONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO START HIS OWN SEED COMPANY.

Explain how you got started breeding, the basic building blocks to a successful breeding project, what you look for in keepers.
Any tips or tricks or anything worth contributing are welcome"


You are not a novice, you haven't even started.

forget about the $company$ for now and focus on learning about the plant.

IC MAG is loaded with info and people willing to help.

I did, but then erased it when I reread your post and saw your agenda

 

[St. Phatty]

* Consider buying a chest freezer, so you can store seeds dry & cold.

* Maybe find a friend to help with the seed sorting, separating the seeds from the buds. That can be a big task. It's good to have help & to work with friends.

* If you have pet birds, or pet rodents, they would enjoy eating the seeds you worked so hard on. Nothing personal !

 

[Smoke_A_Lot]

If you want to learn then put in the time and do it.

What you read will help you but you actually have to do it yourself to get good at it.

your post was this:

"What advice would you give a novice breeder?

PARTICULARLY ONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO START HIS OWN SEED COMPANY.

Explain how you got started breeding, the basic building blocks to a successful breeding project, what you look for in keepers.
Any tips or tricks or anything worth contributing are welcome"


You are not a novice, you haven't even started.

forget about the $company$ for now and focus on learning about the plant.

IC MAG is loaded with info and people willing to help.

I did, but then erased it when I reread your post and saw your agenda

If you want to learn then put in the time and do it.

What you read will help you but you actually have to do it yourself to get good at it.

your post was this:

"What advice would you give a novice breeder?

PARTICULARLY ONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO START HIS OWN SEED COMPANY.

Explain how you got started breeding, the basic building blocks to a successful breeding project, what you look for in keepers.
Any tips or tricks or anything worth contributing are welcome"


You are not a novice, you haven't even started.

forget about the $company$ for now and focus on learning about the plant.

IC MAG is loaded with info and people willing to help.

I did, but then erased it when I reread your post and saw your agenda

I know how to grow pot, done a lot of research & reading. Plus I've been a member here longer than you have if you didn't notice that fact. It's not like i came here & this was my first post then I'd understand your hostility.

do you even know what novice means? pick up a dictionary!

nov·ice
/ˈnävəs/
noun
a person new to or inexperienced in a field or situation.

You're a troll, reported to mods - now you're on ignored

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Don't ask inciteful questions if you desire insightful answers.

A further bit of advice would be to invest time and space towards your dream.

Pop a lot. No. A lot more than a lot.

Plan on not having any useable harvest and prepare for the eventuality that many projects and copious efforts will be laid aside.

Be aware not everything works out and sometimes it is all wasted effort.

I can tell you that after working your own lines for a couple decades success is infinitely rewarding.

A project that took ten years to finish proved true recently and I shed tears of joy!

The dice roll and you have to know the game.

I'm way past my two cents.

Good luck!

 

[Ibechillin]

If you haven't been growing for atleast 7 yrs or more I really wouldn't consider breeding

There's A the right way, the way it's supposed to be done and then there's B the way almost 90% of these seed companies are doing it today....lmao why even go about things the right way when there's enough idiots walking around willing to drop $500+ on untested beans as long as you're mixing "IT" strain #1 with the 1st male you find in a pack of expensive polyhybrid beans, get some fancy labels to put on some of those shiny vacuum sealed mylar bags and you're ready for business. $$$$

Seriously though, knowledge is key the more knowledge you have the better off you'll be and good luck new breeders popping up outta everywhere to catch a wave of the marijuana gold rush.

Truthful if i could give you more +rep i would, name says it all you hit the nail on the head!

I told myself i wouldnt make a single cross until i was absolutely positive i could grow a plant to its maximum genetic potential and then stabilize it. This in itself is an enormous task down the Agronomy rabbit hole which is a conglomerate of many different sciences, and ALOT of math!

For myself Its been 7.5 years of constant research and experimentation, and just recently within this last week i finally feel confident i have a near complete enough understanding of nutrient science and plant biology/physiology interaction to really start pushing a plant to its maximum potential. (Truthful was right on with the 7 years experience suggestion if you ask me lol)

Then there is the time required working with/experimenting/studying a given plant/cross to learn its specific nutritional needs (with tissue analysis), and environmental weaknesses while at optimal health, Repeated with each potential parent plant.

Genotype-phenotype expression can make the same DNA (clone) express like different plants by activating different traits.

^highliting another reason i feel its really important for the breeder to keep and share grow logs explaining how and what the plant(s) were grown with. This way other growers can try to closely replicate the breeder's results to eliminate people bashing good breeders/genetics on forums etc for growing sub par in their shit soil/environment etc!

Notes/pictures of plants throughout grows detailing leaf appereance, smell, branching/structure, root system etc help to identify and label different phenotypes from a cross grown from seed. As well as help to distinguish the unexpected/rare phenos that do appear from a stablized cross from a sup optimal health expression.

I feel like i missed something i wanted to add, hopefully it comes back to me. (I aways feel like im forgeting something...)

Well im going to smoke

 

[Cool Moe]

Particularly one who would like to start his own seed company.
Explain how you got started breeding, the basic building blocks to a successful breeding project, what you look for in keepers.

Any tips or tricks or anything worth contributing are welcome!

All business aspects aside, a big challenge someone would face in going from hobby breeder to pro would be all the parent plants and clones that would need to be successfully managed for years, both female and male. The commitment required to locate all your parent plants and maintain breeding inventory would be huge.

 

[Smoke_A_Lot]

Just wanna clear the air

Just wanna clear the air

Hey peeps just wanted to make some things clear (which i should of done in the beginning)

Talking about starting my own seed company, was kind of bad wording. What i really had in mind is breeding some stable strains for the New England area, particularly MA which just became a rec state. Either selling beans at a low price or giving them away to people around my area so they can start growing their own.
Maybe make a nice cross that get's recognition for coming from my state.
I have no insidious purposes or plans to rip people off, i dislike greedy seed companies as much as you do @Water-! Charging people $100 + or more for a pack of beans is a travesty imo.

I know i have a lot to learn, i don't claim to be a master grower.
All i have is a small tent & a 600 HPS, I know someone can't be a master breeder over night or even a master grower because the learning never stops! i just wanted to get the consensus of what it takes.

I apologize to you Water- if i came off harsh, i should of explained myself better but for future reference you shouldn't accuse people of things, maybe sent me a PM? - i do understand your bias in the climate of today with all these rip off breeders/seed co's

 

[Smoke_A_Lot]

"Two very distinct structural traits among the same stock. On the left is the wider "fat and swollen" leaf more commonly associated with indica varieties. On the right is the slender and skinnier leaf structure more commonly associated with sativas. Both of them came from different plants from the same stock. The mother to both plants is @plantmoreseeds #BandaidHaze while the father is #DjShort's F4 Blueberry. Paying attention to leaf expressions and patterns is probably the most commonly used tool for mapping the genetic development in a cannabis breeding program. These plants were flipped to 11 hours light and 13 hours dark at approximately 12 inches tall and are almost 6 feet tall at three and a half weeks in flower. The stretch was anticipated but this was unexpected. #herecomesthehaze

The leaf on the left is expressing physical influences from the indica selections in the Blueberry stock while the leaf on the right is showing clear influences from the sativas used the make the mother Bandaid Haze."

Here was a tip when it comes to a breeding program from @secondgenerationgenetics on Instagram

 

[djonkoman]

^if that's implying the one with more 'sativa' leaves also has a more sativa effect or leans more towards the more sativa parent, than I would forget it.

first law of mendel is independent assortment. now we know there are linked genes too, but they're a minority, and usually they can still recombine.

so it's fun to look at leaves and see how much of each parent you can recognise in the leaf, but it doesn't say anything usefull about the plants, unless you're breeding towards a specific leafshape.

 

[mexweed]

just do it, like don't worry about trying to build a collection of 'phenom genetics' to work with or trying to source something legendary, work with what you have, take what is given to you and run with it

being in a rec state is great, after a few years find the places selling cheap bud and grab an oz, there are places here that sell bud for super cheap because it is seeded, even in smaller amounts than an oz I have found some s1, obviously the cons are herm tendency

so run with what you have to start building a stud male, try new flavors from shops and see what stands out, hope for and collect s1 along the way, at some point more than likely long before you're ready to start a company there will be a local seed company or shops that offer seeds, grab a strain or two of something that looks interesting or has been proven in smoke and use it

the biggest and simplest thing I have noticed is plant structure, like if you can't run a bunch of plants and take clones of everything to wait to test smoke a bunch of different phenos select based on plant structure, the one that is the least bushy and is still top 3 for density, the one that was top 3 for vigor and did the best after some drought/underwatering type of selection

don't be afraid to whoop on your plants a bit like intentional underwatering to see what does the best, and be ready for fully seeded crops the days of flawless sensi are over, don't quit after some bugs or mold, and try to never grow the same bud the same way twice...always be stepping your grow game up and throwing curve balls at your techniques

 

[Smoke_A_Lot]

Becoming a Breeder: A patient-based breeding program helps others to heal through cannabis

Very interesting article from Ed Rosenthal's blog.. Breeding to HELP, not breeding to profit!!

 

[Snook]

BOPMS

BOPMS

Breed One Plant Multiple Strains.
I did it, it works but I'm not a 'breeder' I'm a grower/stoner.

https://www.opengrow.com/topic/37645-bopms-breed-one-plant-multiples-strains/?hl=bopms&fromsearch=1

 

[ahortator]

What advice would you give a novice breeder?

Don't kill the males!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJV5PYe-TUM

 

[MintyMick]

@ Smoke_A_Lot
Keep accurate records. Excel works great for that, or if you want something easier use a notebook. I use both. And I regularly carry a small 3 x 4 1/2 notepad, because you never know what you will get a good idea, and if you have a list of all your pollen scribbled in a notebook it’s easier to look at a list than open up your freezer and rummage around.

If you’re HAF and decide to dust and bag a branch, use some masking tape as a label so you remember what pollen you used. I forgot to do that once and regret it still, because the progeny was awesome, but I still don’t remember who the dad was.

Build a library of genetics that you like. I can’t stress that enough. Don’t breed for other people.

Never stop learning. And while doing that learn your history re: where that awesome smoke you have is from. In addition to IC Mag, there is a seed website that can help people (finder types) with this information. I think the website is in .Europe.

And this info/ advise whatever you want to call it is based on the fact that I’m assuming that you know how to grow. If not, do that first.

But keep your males and chuck a bit of pollen too while you are at it.

Never let other peoples opinions decide what you can and can not do.

Best of luck.