Watering with Guano

[herbaholic]

Will NOT bubbling my guano and water mix still benefit my plants?



Aren't there macro-nutrients in the guano already immediately available to the plants? Or will I just get more of a delayed reaction?

Also, what about kelp? Does just mixing it with water and watering my plants still benefit the plant and the microherd already in my soil without bubbling and making a tea?

 

[generalgrievous]

i'm looking around for guano tea recipes.....

if i find anything i'll let you know....

 

[bluntt]

HERE YOU GO GREAT TREAD......www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=60687

 

[JackTheGrower]

Oh sure ..

I find Sea Bird the best and I am more likely to mix guano with rice flower and kelp meal I have made fine in the blender.

See if we grind up things like guano, coffee, kelp meal and such then mix in with some rice flower, azomite and what not we can literally shake that powder out like we shake parmigiana on a pizza.

There is a thread called the Flour thread and that introduces the idea of micronized materials as a top dressing.

Now I also saw a thread on making liquid called witches brew..

Personally? I will add some guano to a liquid feed but am likely to brew coffee, add fish to it azomite and guano..

If you are using small containers I will guess you are favoring a quick feed situation so some liquid mix is what you want if you are doing a larger organic soil grow with top dressing and decay then I suggest a mixed approach.

Be sure to share what you do!


Ernst

 

[herbaholic]

I just don't want to have a bucket of water bubbling away 24/7 that's all. at least not inside.

Once the veggies get planted though I'm planning on brewing some teas in a couple of 5 gallon buckets.

I am, in fact, using small containers due to limited space and prefer a quick feeding solution.

As far as recipes go Guano, Kelp, and EMC seem to be a winning combo, the recipes are easy to find here I love this forum.

Obviously bubbling for 24 - 48 will give us a substantial microherd, I'm just curious about macro-nutrients being immediately available to the plants, without incubating a microherd, in the guano/kelp/water.

 

[mad librettist]

No need to bubble whatsoever. Add to water, stir vigorously. And pour.

Or do like Jack says and top dress. I would rake it in maybe, and mist the top layer if gnats are not around.

The bubbling IMO is just a tradition started by some misinformed guy who confused guano tea with aerated tea. Different purpose, different material.

 

[bluntt]

No need to bubble whatsoever. Add to water, stir vigorously. And pour.

Or do like Jack says and top dress. I would rake it in maybe, and mist the top layer if gnats are not around.

The bubbling IMO is just a tradition started by some misinformed guy who confused guano tea with aerated tea. Different purpose, different material.

I THOUGHT TEA MEANS AERATED COMPOST+GUANO+EWC+UNSULFURED MOLASSES+KELP=TEA +FAST ACTION NUTRIENT TO THE ROOTS NOW,THAT BEING SAID YOU CAN MIX THE GUANO WITH WATER WHICH I BELIEVE IS SLOW ACTION.EWC IS ALSO COMPOST.IF YOU GO WITH THE WATER/GUANO MIX OR TOP FEED I WOULD STILL GO WITH THE EWC+UNSULFURED MOLASSES+KELP=TEA, IT FEEDS THE SOIL BURN ONE MADE ME A TRUE BELIEVER ON FEEDING THE SOIL TO THE POINT THAT I'M STARTING TO PUT MY PH METER DOWN I HAVEN'T YET BECAUSE I'VE BEEN DOING IT FOR SO LONG. I WENT WITH ONE OF THOSE LC MIXES BUT NOT HAVE YET TO USE IT AS I'M STILL COOKING THE SOIL.I HAVE DONE THE TEA RECIPE,IT WORK WONDERFUL WHICH IS AN UNDER STATEMENT.

 

[NUG-JUG]

Yes Guano tea is NOT ACT. Not only that but the good book states that high phosphorous enviroments inhibit beneficial growth. Through my own personal tea brewing trials I have noticed when I bubble a bunch of Peruvian Seabird Guano, the tea IS NOT thick, DOES NOT smell sweet, and there's no bacterial slime on anything. This happens when I add castings and all the other goodies that still go into my ACT. The only variable is the high P. In contrast to my ACT which is a frothing, sweet, slimy, elixir.

So IMO bubbling guano teas is very much a waste of time, energy, and diaphragms.

 

[C21H30O2]

sounds like we need a side by side

people say bubbling does nothing to guano teas but ive noticed a difference between the two... or have I?

though im starting to think that the very best setup would be recycled well made soil, AACT and the occasional top dressing.

 

[mad librettist]

Man I don't even bubble worm casting tea. The whole point of aerated tea is to do the same thing with 1/20th the material. Fine, that's great for a yard, or a massive grow.

But a closet, tent, cab, or room? I would not bother. Not even CT guy will say an aerated tea beats a fresh slurry.

We don't need a side by side. No sir.

And I will throw my hat in and say raking in guano and other foods is superior to water mixture. If that's the side by side I would be tempted to wager a bud sample, if that kind of thing were not prohibited.

 

[DocLeaf]

NOT bubbling / aerating the guano before use makes it slow release., delayed reaction. The rate at which it breaks down depends on the age and origin of the guano.

Bubbling / aerating the guano before use makes the nutrients more readily available. Sea Bird Guano is the strongest,, and fresh bat guano is the weakest!!

With smaller plants then we add some guano to the soil for 30-40 days veg. growth and 60-70day flowering - by which time the (bat) guano is then mostly used-up and kicks-in during the final stages of bloom. We feed only water.

With bigger plants then we do as above but will water the plants with sea-bird guano during the veg-stages and switch onto bat guano feed during the first 30-40 days of flowering. But we still dont feed anything but water during the final stages of bloom (30days).

It is important to remember that not all of the minerals in the guano are water soluble and need to be broken down by micro-organisms and beneficial bacteria before the goodness is full released. The bacteria feed best on carbohydrates,, hence the sugar / molasses in an aerated bucket of warm water.


We also like to add wood ash for P n K to the guano tea in summer,,

,, and urine for N in spring. These both blend with guano (and wormcasts) to help release the minerals even quicker

Hope this helps
dL

 

[mad librettist]

Heya doc, got my last PAC mix going. Let's hope it's female.

I gotta say, most of your post is just not true or is misleading, and outdated. Sorry if that is harsh, and it's not an indictment of you or your skills.

The process of making nutes available to plants is called mineralization, and it means what it sounds like. Mineral N is plant available, organic N is not. Same with C, P, or any other essential element. For the most part, bacteria do NOT make nutes available, their predators do. There are exception like nitrifying bacteria that convert ammonium pooped by predators into nitrate, as long as the pH is at least 7 (the real pH around the bacterium, not the pH reading of runoff).

I know you know your thing, but let's keep the science accurate. Bubbling never has, and never will make nutes available. Predation and direct trading does that. Bubbling merely creates an environment that favors aerobic respiration. I guess it also agitates, but not as well as a stick.
For starters, if the microbes in guano could unlock those nutes they would have already done so.

If it takes microbes to break it down, you going to trust dormant, limited microbes, or the roaring symphony in your soil?

Adding to water I understand for a quick fix (not necessary if your diversity is established). In water, guano will penetrate further into the medium. But I believe guano is often used when all that's necessary is compost and water to restart the engine after an adverse event, not more gas.


This message got jumbled. I'm on a phone.

 

[DocLeaf]

Heya doc, got my last PAC mix going. Let's hope it's female.

I gotta say, most of your post is just not true or is misleading.

The process of making nutes available to plants is called mineralization, and it means what it sounds like. Mineral N is plant available, organic N is not. Same with C, P, or any other essential element. For the most part, bacteria do NOT make nutes available, their predators do. There are exception like nitrifying bacteria that convert ammonium pooped by predators into nitrate, as long as the pH is at least 7 (the real pH around the bacterium, not the pH reading of runoff).

I know you know your thing, but let's keep the science accurate. Bubbling never has, and never will make nutes available. Predation and direct trading does that. Bubbling merely creates an environment that favors aerobic respiration. I guess it also agitates, but not as well as a stick.
For starters, if the microbes in guano could unlock those nutes they would have already done so.

If it takes microbes to break it down, you going to trust dormant, limited microbes, or the roaring symphony in your soil?

Adding to water I understand for a quick fix (not necessary if your diversity is established). In water, guano will penetrate further into the medium. But I believe guano is often used when all that's necessary is compost and water to redraft the engine, not more gas.


This message got jumbled. I'm on a phone.

Pacific Mix? cool

Sure thing,, i'm no guano expert... chat to burn-1

Anyhow,, as we understand it.. (maybe re-read my original post again when you get off the phone..lol)

It is possible to cultivate a micro-herd of beneficial bacteria , which are already present/surrounding the guano by conditioning their environ. A wet, warm, aerobic environ (the opposite to dried guano in a bucket) allows these beneficial micro-organisms (which surround everything in nature) to become more active. By feeding these organisms basic sugars, then they multiply and become even more active.

Complex exchanges between the bacteria in the bucket and that which surrounds the guano then occurs at an increased rate than it would in soil,, where decomposition of the guano takes much longer..

Bubbling aids the process of decomposition or mineralization and the guano is broken down quicker,, however some particles always remain. These mineral particles,, when in soil substrates,, are slow-releasing and give the guano added depth in effect.

Bubbling seabird and bat guano ,, with added wormcast, urine, sea weed extract, wood ash and honey, (depending on season) is a proven way of sustaining plant growth and flowering in coco substrates.. which would NOT be possible by adding the same ingredients to the coco in the first place.

This provides enough evidence that sufficient minerals are released to sustain direct feeding over an otherwise inert substrate.

Hope this helps

 

[OrganicMonkey]

Bacteria do make nutrients ions available, bubbling keeps them alive. If you were growing fungus, in a liquid tea you would also do that. If you don't bubble and either way, it's good to see what settles at the bottom. Dumping what isn't registering with the TDS into soil, is a good way to find a lot more nutrition than you expected.

I haven't worked with Guano other than in the products that are liquid and a test on a non-cannabis plant. I learned the hard way about seeing what precipitates. I like the idea of wood ash, I think I could produce that better than char. I won't be adding char this year, but it's in the future.

I'd rather add char to my flower garden, it seems cheaper and a better test.

 

[mad librettist]

Wait hang on, can you re-emphasize the worm castings, and let everyone know they are the primary source of organisms we are culturing?

Then I will point out that tea brewers stick to sugars or fish hydrolysate because guano in a tea would have an adverse effect on diversity.

I got your post, but did I maybe not make the point well that we are not trying to release nutes when we make tea, but in fact achieve diversity and balance of living beings. First, and last. It's not about nutes.

Bubbling guano gets you the microbes in the guano. Not diverse at all.


Am I getting any of this across? When we say feed the soil not the plant, this is the point. Throwing NO3 at them is not the idea. Throwing microbes is.

 

[DocLeaf]

Wood ash = carbon

Carbon absorbs minerals,,, which it then makes directly available to plants (or the organisms that surround them and the roots of plants). Again a complex exchange that science can't exactly explain (because science can't see it,, it can only test to see if it happened after)...lol

Ancient farmers have practised the method of adding carbon to their substrate alongside other organic fertilizers for centuries,, as a means of releasing available minerals quickly,, from Terra Petra farming in Brazil ,, way back to slash and burn agriculture in neolithic Europe.

Adding Maple Syrup to tea can also be really beneficial 67% carbs and contain traces of magnesium, calcium, potassium and zinc.

Personally we prefer using honey (82% carbs),, when we can afford it,, because although the it is anti bacterial (to the bad sorts) it has high traces of Potassium,, and the fructose in honey contains minerals and vitamins ,, the likes of which molasses has never tasted.. lmfao

Hope this helps

Peace out all ,, keep it organic

 

[DocLeaf]

Wait hang on, can you re-emphasize the worm castings, and let everyone know they are the primary source of organisms we are culturing?

Wormcastings are added later on (secondary,, some times subsidiary)... if and when required,, once the guano tea is established. You can build a nice tea on cane sugar and peruvian bat guano alone,, have done many times,, that's what we call a "cheap tea" .. lol

Wormcastings are added for calcium and micro nutrients,, thus to help correct calcium and other deficiencies which usually occur prior to the on-set of flowering in larger plants. Plus wormcasts seem to keep plants vibrant and healthy in any season

N.B. we use organic guano tea over food-crops primarily,, ganja secondary,, so the method(s) we use MUST help support plant growth and flowering organically,, otherwise it would defeat the whole point

 

[mad librettist]

Doc there's carbon and there's carbon.

Ash is very simple carbon chains. Char is very complex.

On the entropy side we have ash, on the life side we have char. Then there is texture, pore size, etc.

So c is not c is not c. Mineral c is co2 btw.

In life, the goal is c. So bats or amoebae poop out n because they get too much in the hunt for C. Plants get C from bacteria farts.

Sox pm me if you want some reading recommendation. There is a lot to cover. Needless to say either everything I have struggled to learn in the last few years is a conspiracy to dupe me through science, or your info is way off.

In any case it sounds more like trying to manipulate biology via chemistry instead of setting up a system that is mostly self regulating. Ben Franklin v. Evangelical Christianity if you will.

Some readers may wonder why I don't leave it alone. I believe many good growers employ harmful or useless techniques and get results because this plant is a 2 on the 1-10 difficulty scale. Taken alone it doesn't matter, but new growers read all this and put them all together, and wind up with disaster.

 

[DocLeaf]

Some readers may wonder why I don't leave it alone. I believe many good growers employ harmful or useless techniques and get results because this plant is a 2 on the 1-10 difficulty scale. Taken alone it doesn't matter, but new growers read all this and put them all together, and wind up with disaster.

There's nothing technical or harmful or useless about throwing some guano and sugar into a bucket with an air-stone and letting it ferment,, and trust us the wood-ash helps.

,,that's how shop bought nutrients are made dude. Only they use giant vats, not buckets.. hehe

Peace outty

I don't really know... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZEvOzGlW7M

 

[mad librettist]

Shop made nutes don't stick to media using polysaccharides, turn p from non-available to organic forms then into mineralized forms.

They don't cycle themselves. They don't protect against disease. They can't help save the planet. They don't automatically adapt to changing conditions with no user inputs.

They do grow big plants. So does miracle grow. I'm not knocking that, but I have less problems with miracle gro than people might think.

Wanna grow big big veggies? Move to Alaska. You can't beat 20 hour days.

Check it out: if I mulch chopped up leaves and rake them in my pH will go up in time, if I use bigger pieces on the surface it will go down. I control chemistry via biology, not the other way around. Guano on my book is just another food for soil. Not the plant.

It's just one way to do it. I'm not knocking anyone else's method. I am objecting to other methods getting confused with this one.