Waterboarding?

[greenhead]

testicular electrocution is much more effective...

That might be true, but waterboarding is far simpler to carry out and no electricity or power source is required. Though I'm sure that it would be possible to have it solar powered, thus making it easy and convenient to use anyplace, even in the desert, lol.

 

[jgaf]

yeesh guys lighten up. fvck war, torture etc. wouldnt life be more fun without it.

 

[trouble]

yeesh guys lighten up. fvck war, torture etc. wouldnt life be more fun without it.

Dude, WaterBoarding is life and everything eles is just details.

Surfs Up Mohammad!


....

 

[begeesterdechol]

Anybody who thinks that waterboarding is torture doesn't know what real torture consists of.

Enlighten us ingorant fools ...

Is everybody aware that even some US troops undergo actual waterboarding as part of their training ?

I am, the big difference is that Us troops subject themselves voluntary to waterboarding, they know it'll happen during training (Not sure which sections of the army will get this as training but I'm guessing the more specialised are).

Yet, all of these pussies and unpatriotic, enemy loving people get all upset when it might be used on a captured terrorist, how ironic.

These people haven't been to trial yet, doesn't have america the innocent untill proven guitly kind of justice system?
Not to mention several reports about innocent people being arrested and shipped of to Guantanamo or whatever middle eastern country is willing to torture for the usa. There were some high profile cases that received a lot of media attention.

Where were these people protesting it, when it was used on US troops ?

Read above

That's right folks, they only come out of the woodwork when it's some poor, mass murdering terrorists that it's used against.

Again, read above

Captured enemies should be extremely happy that we don't slowly sever their penises off, wrap their pathetic wieners inside hotdog buns and feed it to them for lunch. After that we'll find the bluntest blade available and chop their heads off, extremely slowly, all while laughing it up and having a jolly good old time. Every 10 seconds we'll pour some salt into the slit marks and their open wounds for added entertainment value. Then we'll make them drink gasoline and proceed to burn their bodies and hang them from some bridges while we dance around like primitive savage beasts.

Would you actually want to do that to people you don't know shit about? Not even whether they have any business with terrorists?

I am a realist, what do people think war is?

The war on terrorists isn't actually a war, it's shooting at everything that moves and hope there's a terrorist amongst them. Figurally speaking offcourse

And also, I'm going to call out anybody who is cowardly enough to give me a neg rep for stating my honest opinion in this thread, while they are not even man enough to reply to this thread.

You are entitled to your opinion and you keep it somewhat civil...


BTW greenhead, not targeting you specifically but your post are the most elaborate and outspoken, makes it easier to reply to.

 

[Mr. Nevermind]

Obviously, most of the info about current waterboarding of scumbags is secret and remains so.

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed
Several accounts reported that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded while being interrogated by the CIA. According to the Bush administration, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed divulged information of tremendous value during his detention. He is said to have helped point the way to the capture of Hambali, the Indonesian terrorist responsible for the 2002 bombings of night clubs in Bali. According to the Bush administration, he also provided information on an Al Qaeda leader in England.[40]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

Citing the bush administration and wiki as your sources shows you are a fool. So what the Bush admin said KSM gave them good info, they also said that Iraq had WMD and look how truthful that was. They also said that Iran had WMD til the NIE came back and told em they were full of shit. Anyone who believes a known liar deserves ridicule.

To waterboard a prisoner is torture. Period, citing training of soldiers in training volunteering to take part in waterboarding and knowing what its effects will be are alot different than a prisoner who didnt ask for it having it done. A reporter asked to have it done on him and said it is torture, he knew what would happen and started to drown. Inflicting pain on a prisoner to get info is torture. torture causes pain.

You want to cite something? Why dont you cite the when the US charged a japanesse soldier for waterboarding an America. Its torture when its done to our troops then its torture when we do it as well. Cant cry foul and press charges when we do the same thing.


As someone whom has served in the military i find you to be one of those armchair QB's that is good at talking but aint never served. You feel soo strong about bush and his policies? Go support him by going to a recruiters office.



Nevermind

 

[Siddartha]

Can't really say that waterboarding is not torture, drowning is one of the most painful ways to die, and the fear of death (biological) can leave powerful scars on one's mind.

 

[tuco]

greenhead captured scumbags

captured scumbags aye?

I don't know, mate. I'd call your politicians foreign policy over the last 20-odd years pretty "scumbagish"....wouldn't you, Sunshine?

Tuco - Do you have anything worthwhile to add to the thread ?

Yes. You are insidious.

Why are you against saving US lives ?

Show me proof that water-boarding has saved a single US life. And no - testimony from a former CIA agent does not count.

Why do you stick up for the enemy ?

The answer is "Who is Mosanto"
The answer is "What is N.A.F.T.A."

Shall I go on, Sunshine?

Why do you like terrorists ?

Define a terrorist.

Are you related to Osama bin Laden ?

You are stupid and insidious.

 

[greenhead]

Enlighten us ingorant fools ...

I don't characterize something which rarely causes permanent physical damage as torture. The psychological impact is of no concern to me and doesn't constitute torture in my opinion. If Mohammed terrorist ends up wetting his bed for the rest of his life, then I honestly find that quite funny, and I would suggest that he invest in plenty of bedsheets in that case.

I am, the big difference is that Us troops subject themselves voluntary to waterboarding, they know it'll happen during training (Not sure which sections of the army will get this as training but I'm guessing the more specialised are).

I'm of the opinion that terrorists voluntary subject themselves to being waterboarded and much worse things the second they decide to become a terrorist. That's a profession which carries various risks, lol.

These people haven't been to trial yet, doesn't have america the innocent untill proven guitly kind of justice system?
Not to mention several reports about innocent people being arrested and shipped of to Guantanamo or whatever middle eastern country is willing to torture for the usa. There were some high profile cases that received a lot of media attention.

Foreign terrorists are not entitled to be tried under the American judicial system in civilian courts, nor do they have the rights of an American citizen. What I do know about Guantanamo, is that many of the terrorists which were released have gone right back to being terrorists as soon as they were released.

Would you actually want to do that to people you don't know shit about? Not even whether they have any business with terrorists?

Plenty of people have been captured, and it is mainly the top targets that such techniques like waterboarding are used against.

The war on terrorists isn't actually a war, it's shooting at everything that moves and hope there's a terrorist amongst them. Figurally speaking offcourse

I would disagree with that, I think it is a war, and if we were actually able to do what you figuratively suggested, then the problem would be solved completely.

You are entitled to your opinion and you keep it somewhat civil...

Thanks, and you're entitled to your opinion also of course.

BTW greenhead, not targeting you specifically but your post are the most elaborate and outspoken, makes it easier to reply to.

Sure, no problem.

 

[greenhead]

You want to cite something? Why dont you cite the when the US charged a japanesse soldier for waterboarding an America. Its torture when its done to our troops then its torture when we do it as well. Cant cry foul and press charges when we do the same thing.


As someone whom has served in the military i find you to be one of those armchair QB's that is good at talking but aint never served. You feel soo strong about bush and his policies? Go support him by going to a recruiters office.

Nevermind

Who cares about Bush ? His term is soon over, and my opinions remain the same even after he is gone. And regarding Japan, that is an actual country, as opposed to a group like Al-Qaeda which isn't a signatory of any international agreements.

 

[emmy75]

Citing the bush administration and wiki as your sources shows you are a fool.
Nevermind

nevermind maybe this is one reason why political threads get binned. although calling someone a fool is not as bad as some of the other name calling that takes place on political threads its certainly a start. dont attack the person but rather the material or evidence.

just stay cool man

i was talking to a friend of mine who is a camera man. he was in the army for a short while and was offered to undergo waterboarding. he refused. i told him waterboarding is a form of torture but he disagreed. his logic was that it is just SIMULATED drowning. the person, he assumes, knows that they are not going to be drowned. pulling off fingernails and such "physical" methods are really torture. torture is not pretending to drown somebody. i told him its against the geneva convention, which sees it as torture.

after thinking about it i remember that long periods of sleep deprivation is also considered torture by the geneva convention. sleep deprivation is also not physical torture, like pulling teeth or fingernails. it is however torture, as i define it, causing stress to the victim. i define torture as physical and emotional stress or pain. thats why i think waterboarding is torture. it may not be phsysical pain to some but it certainly has the traits of causing extreme emotional stress or damage.

lastly id like to say, however weak an argument this may be, that john mccain who was a POW, believes waterboarding is toture.

 

[greenhead]

captured scumbags aye?

Yeah, that's correct, captured scumbags and primitive, savage animals. What do you prefer to call them ? Heroes ?

I don't know, mate. I'd call your politicians foreign policy over the last 20-odd years pretty "scumbagish"....wouldn't you, Sunshine?

Not any worse than the foreign policies of any number of nations around the globe.

Yes. You are insidious.

You should look up the definition of insidious, because I am anything but insidious.

Show me proof that water-boarding has saved a single US life. And no - testimony from a former CIA agent does not count.

I don't need to. I think that you should show proof that it has not saved any single life. You see, waterboarding is taking place right now, and there is no need for me to persuade anybody, because I am happy with the status quo.

Shall I go on, Sunshine?

You are free to do as you please.

Define a terrorist.

Here's a good example of one:

You are stupid and insidious.

And you are ignorant, mentally challenged, probably severly braindamaged, and a lover of terrorists.

 

[greenhead]

it may not be phsysical pain to some but it certainly has the traits of causing extreme emotional stress or damage.

It's all a matter of perspective. Marriage can be defined as torture using your criteria. Browsing this forum may constitute torture to some.

 

[Mr. Nevermind]

Who cares about Bush ? His term is soon over, and my opinions remain the same even after he is gone. And regarding Japan, that is an actual country, as opposed to a group like Al-Qaeda which isn't a signatory of any international agreements.

You do, you were the one citing the Bush admin as your case for waterboarding being a useful tool. And just a heads up, the japan incident was a US civilian getting wateboarded. So a soldier from a counties army waterboarded a person not wearing the uniform of their country. Kind of like whne a US soldier takes someone not in uniform and waterboards them. Same thing . We want to have a "war on terror" as its called? then a war has 2 sides, ours and those we got to war against. you say al queda is the enemy? then cool, treat them as you would hope they would treat one of our soldiers if caught. if you declare war on an enemy and engage in war then you have to follow the terms of Geneva which we do not. But hold others to in regards to our soldiers.



nevermind maybe this is one reason why political threads get binned. although calling someone a fool is not as bad as some of the other name calling that takes place on political threads its certainly a start. dont attack the person but rather the material or evidence.

with all due respect this fool is part of the problem. He is just like the rest of those Gung ho i supprot the troops but dont so shit for em really" kind of guys that got this country into war, and got some of my friends who were serving killed. War is soo cool and fun to watch on tv to some but thats because they dont have a vested interest and think that blowing shit up is cool. His attitude is a reflection of the attiudes in the USA that causes enemies to hate us even further. Leaving my friends driving around Iraq waiting to get blown up. So calling someone a fool isnt as bad as fools talking wreckless and endagering the lives of our troops and some of my friends. If he is so gung ho he shoudl go sign up. If not he is just an armchair QB that aint doing shit to help this country




Nevermind

 

[greenhead]

you say al queda is the enemy? then cool, treat them as you would hope they would treat one of our soldiers if caught.

Nevermind

I agree with that, and in that case, we should probably not take any prisoners at all, just simply kill them, after maybe torturing and mutilating them first. Which is what they do with US soldiers. I believe in treating others how they treat you.

 

[greenhead]

His attitude is a reflection of the attiudes in the USA that causes enemies to hate us even further.

Nevermind

We should do everything we can to make those scumbag savages hate us even more, if that's even possible with those silly goons. The more they hate, the more they will end up dead, sounds like a good deal to me.

 

[zeloszero]

just pointing out that most information gained from torture is inaccurate. i guess torture is fine and dandy until you are tortured, then all of a sudden your opinion would change.

Yeahhh torture is awesomeee

 

[xxsicknessxx]

Its tricky... we gotta defend are selves, but ya torture sucks..

There is no easy answer with something like this. I think everything should be researched heavly, then the evidence should be given to everyone and we should vote.

Sorta like the system we have now, except people should really vote, and they should really investigate things with out corruption.
Is that possible.. lol

IRAQ had a higher turn out then are elections.. its kinda sad

 

[HCSmyth]

"No man is an island, entire of itself; every
man is a piece of the continent, a part of the
main. If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory
were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or
of thine own were: any man's death diminishes
me, because I am involved in mankind, and
therefore never send to know for whom the bells
tolls; it tolls for thee."

John Donne
Devotions upon
Emergent Occasions, no. 17

...and time marches ON!!!

 

[Kirby]

The fact remains that torture is un-American. It would be foolish to claim otherwise.

 

[loflogro]

As stated, water boarding is a technique that many of our soldier's, sailors and airmen undergo. Check into SERE (Survival, Evasion, Resistance & Escape) training. I never had the "pleasure" of attending this training, but have two friends who did. Only one of them underwent water boarding. I won't go into details as to which technique, they vary and you can google it if you want to look into the various methods. He doesn't have any long term trauma or effects and is still proudly serving at a very high level.

With the knowledge that our own men and women willingly go through this, how can anyone feel that it is to harsh of an interrogation method to use on terrorists. And please don't think that this is something used on every terrorist brought to camp, there isn't a get your prison uniform and water boarding line. It is a technique reserved for certain people who were in positions that made them privy to certain information. The thought of someone who has no clue past what their news station of choice tells them thinking they should have a say as to what techniques are used to gain information to protect our soldier's and citizens just pisses me off. Who the hell are you to make such enlightened and bold judgments when in your mind you know you don't know jack about what's going on. When you sit through briefings in a 120 degree desert outlining new threats and techniques; when you patrol the streets and talk to the people affected; when you are forced to end the life of someone who is barely even a teen yet but was given a gun, a message of hate and a slap on the ass; when you pull security on a Humvee while the bodies of brothers in arms are cut out of the wreckage; and when you know the feeling of talking to one of your best friends wife and daughter for the first time since he was killed by a cowardly roadside bomb... then you tell me what techniques should and should not be used.

I have stated in other threads that my feelings on Afghanistan and Iraq are different, I really hope we find a speedy but not hasty withdrawal from Iraq, but things such as techniques used go well beyond the fight we find ourselves in now, and decisions made now will have huge effects in future conflicts. At no point should what we will and will not do be outlined. "The American people have a right to know". The hell you do, you have the right to know a lot of things... some things you don't need to know and I hate it if you can't comprehend that. Above the American people not needing to know, our enemies sure as hell don't need to know. Where there is no fear of repercussions, there is no hesitation. If you fight an enemy who really isn't afraid of death due to what they believe the afterlife holds, what kind of idiot removes the fear they might have of what could happen while alive. You remove someones fear of things in life and death and you have created one of the most ruthless enemies possible. Who does this effect?... in the long run it effects civilians as your security is chipped away, but the immediate and harshest effects fall on the ones putting the boots on the ground. When do we stop drawing lines, do we keep finding the next thing we wouldn't want to go through and take that away as well until we are left with a sterile government and a military with their hands tied so tight they can't even reach for their weapon. As much as I respect John McCain, his stance on this issue is just mind boggling. When you have information to be extracted from an enemy set on the destruction of you and other nations, no method should be taken off the table, even if they die. Our Government doesn't get everything right, but they get more right than wrong, if you don't agree with that then what are you still doing here. There are plenty of opportunities outside of our borders, so don't let us keep you here. They made the decision to do these things, we've got to make the decision that we are going to do the things to limit and stop them.