Water Cooled Growers Unite!

[Ez Rider]

I've been looking into water cooling since I really don't want to run my electricity bill up much higher. Do you guys have any links for products other than hydro innovations? I've been unable to find much searching.


My hope was to keep my air cooled hoods and use water cooling for the room. I have a well that runs cold year round, I'd just drain the water back into my well.

There are tons of products/companies out there. Here is one:http://www.multiaqua.com/
Google "water-cooled air handler" or something similar. Carrier, Rheem, and most of the major manufacturers offer chilled-water/water-cooled systems. Hydro-inovations is a good starting point, since their products are geared towards our hobby.

 

[Ttystikk]

I've been looking into water cooling since I really don't want to run my electricity bill up much higher. Do you guys have any links for products other than hydro innovations? I've been unable to find much searching.


My hope was to keep my air cooled hoods and use water cooling for the room. I have a well that runs cold year round, I'd just drain the water back into my well.

Have you done this yet? I have recently done something substantially similar, but I found that I gained more light than I lost in terms of cooling when I went from air cooled hoods to bare bulb. In other words, air cooled hoods weren't worth the light they cost me. This might seem counterintuitive, but it has played out the same in every space I've converted. Bare naked light bulbs are just flat better, and hold the reflector while you're at it.

I control the entire environment with my water chilling system, from air temp and RH to RDWC water temps. With one unit. With your well you could very easily do precisely the same.

 

[InjectTruth]

I went to Hydro Innovations today and was treated to quite a tour of facilities and equipment. For those who show interest, I'll be happy to get into detail, but here's the upshot of the visit;

Water chilling for small commercial or home use is now a reality, AND adding a hot water circuit to replace your furnace/hot water/facility heating system is on the list of STANDARD OPTIONS. Do you have any idea of the potential of 'water cooled process chilling'? This unit- complete with a warranty that's obviously taken seriously by everyone who works there, their brand or not, will pay for itself with that hot water circuit alone!

It gets better; if your hot water needs are sporadic, and most are, this unit AUTOMATICALLY dumps excess heat into the outside air whenever the hot water circuit can't keep up. That's just such an awesome slam dunk I'm not sure why anyone would ever choose a traditional furnace, AC and water heater again!

So the 'waste' heat from your grow is now readily available to use for everything from hot running water to radiant heat floors, heated driveways, water heated hot tub, outdoor aquaponic tanks in any season besides summer, greenhouses, etc etc etc.

Here's another thing that hot water will do; heat your grow room at night so dehuey can continue around the clock. Usually done with an electric heater, this approach drastically improves efficiency by reusing waste heat instead of another 800-1500W of power, while maintaining control over the room's climate better than ever.

The cold water circuit can chill your house as well as your op, and why shouldn't we be as comfortable as our leafy ladies? If you prefer cold water aquaponics, the cold circuit has you covered through hot summer months. It also covers room cooling, dehuey, climate control in living and working spaces, RDWC- and I'll even rig up a tub with a cold coil and some water and it will chill beer and soda to 45f too! Polar bear contests in July, anyone? LOL

Wow, Im very excited to hear this. I've been trying to figure out a way to rig something like this after years of watchin vids on youtube and reading mother earth news and diy solar . com , etc, but never was able to tie it all together with our thing. Even posted a thread, https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=247165

Do you have any links to these systems? I checked hydroinnovations websit but to no avail.

 

[Ttystikk]

Wow, Im very excited to hear this. I've been trying to figure out a way to rig something like this after years of watchin vids on youtube and reading mother earth news and diy solar . com , etc, but never was able to tie it all together with our thing. Even posted a thread, https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=247165

Do you have any links to these systems? I checked hydroinnovations websit but to no avail.

Hydro innovations was recently bought out by another company, I know nothing further.

I'm really excited about getting one of these, because as you say, it solves many problems around the house without creating new ones.

The units they convert are from another brand, I don't remember. It's a five ton unit. It's only going to recapture excess heat, like that from a grow op or cooling your home in the summer.

I did very well over the last several winters by warming my home with the heat rejected by my chiller. I hope to improve upon this by using the hot water generated to add hot water, heat and even the hot tub!

 

[eebbnflow]

So is anyone still running their 2hp chill king for water cooling ? I understand ttystikk had bad luck with his chill king . I've only seen 1 online review where the persons unit broke down , something to do with the fan breaking . I can get a chill king unit on eBay or Amazon or one of the many hydro shops that carries them , I see many online sites selling them . A few yea s ago I tried watercooling with the eco plus chillers so I'm ready this time with air handlers and proper sized chiller depending ....

Being located in Canada I have had a friend getting info on shipping cost to get the banks 2ton but I'm looking for other options

 

[queequeg152]

So is anyone still running their 2hp chill king for water cooling ? I understand ttystikk had bad luck with his chill king . I've only seen 1 online review where the persons unit broke down , something to do with the fan breaking . I can get a chill king unit on eBay or Amazon or one of the many hydro shops that carries them , I see many online sites selling them . A few yea s ago I tried watercooling with the eco plus chillers so I'm ready this time with air handlers and proper sized chiller depending ....

Being located in Canada I have had a friend getting info on shipping cost to get the banks 2ton but I'm looking for other options

are you trying to chill your room or fertilizer solution? i ask because 2hp is a pitifully small system.
Thats around 5 or 6 kbtuh if my math is correct, assuming 2hp is the capacity and not peak compressor load or some such bullshit figure.

chillers for hvac just dont make sense financially speaking. they are at best marginally more efficient, but they tend to cost more than double what a comparable residential split system would cost.

 

[eebbnflow]

I believe the 2hp chillking is rated at 24,000btu

 

[Ez Rider]

So is anyone still running their 2hp chill king for water cooling ? I understand ttystikk had bad luck with his chill king . I've only seen 1 online review where the persons unit broke down , something to do with the fan breaking . I can get a chill king unit on eBay or Amazon or one of the many hydro shops that carries them , I see many online sites selling them . A few yea s ago I tried watercooling with the eco plus chillers so I'm ready this time with air handlers and proper sized chiller depending ....

Being located in Canada I have had a friend getting info on shipping cost to get the banks 2ton but I'm looking for other options

Never messed with chillking...WAY too expensive for what it is. I did use an ecoplus "commercial" chiller(1hp) for the last year and a half non-stop with 0 problems. I'd still be using it if I hadn't changed my system.

are you trying to chill your room or fertilizer solution? i ask because 2hp is a pitifully small system.
Thats around 5 or 6 kbtuh if my math is correct, assuming 2hp is the capacity and not peak compressor load or some such bullshit figure.
chillers for hvac just dont make sense financially speaking. they are at best marginally more efficient, but they tend to cost more than double what a comparable residential split system would cost.

Don't know how you're figuring that. My 1hp is rated @ 8525 btu/h. It easily removed all the heat from 2 1000w hps from a 5x9 tent and could have handled a 3rd 1000w if I'd had room for it. I'm not going to argue practicality or startup costs, but chilled water is far more effective than air at transferring heat, it's physics.

 

[eebbnflow]

Hey EZ ����. I had the Eco 1.5hp which really is only 1hp. 12000btu and I had the 1/2hp . Both units ran awesome for me too for well over a year , using 2 chillers was a pain to cool using iceboxes . I ended up selling out , only because my equipment was undersized nd mixed matched . Eco plus needs to make a bigger unit ! I liked my ecoplus unit as well . It's been a few days now and I'm probably just going to pass on the chiller . For me to get a banks 2ton or chill king it's over 5000$ CND. Which is way too much 2500/ton lol then pumps ect . Looking into ac packages now

 

[queequeg152]

I believe the 2hp chillking is rated at 24,000btu

interesting. ok so i assumed 2hp was their way of relating the cooling capacity.

you can convert HP to watts or BTUH, so i assumed this was some industry specific standard.

2hp must be their compressor rating. thats about what a large window unit is equiped with so 24kbtuh sounds bang on.

 

[queequeg152]

Don't know how you're figuring that. My 1hp is rated @ 8525 btu/h. It easily removed all the heat from 2 1000w hps from a 5x9 tent and could have handled a 3rd 1000w if I'd had room for it. I'm not going to argue practicality or startup costs, but chilled water is far more effective than air at transferring heat, it's physics.

yes water has much higher specific heat capacity, but that does not make chillers inherantly more efficient. just smaller and much more flexible.

at small scales, with conventional equipment... they just are not appreciably more efficient, and are likely LESS efficient than even a single stage split system.

regardless, like i said earlier, these things just cost way to much to even begin to approach the practicality of things like conventional split ac systems or even minisplits.

at huge 50 ton + scales, chillers become more and more efficient and more and more practical as centrifugal compressors and liquid heat exchange's scale very very favorably.

 

[Ez Rider]

Hey EZ ����. I had the Eco 1.5hp which really is only 1hp. 12000btu and I had the 1/2hp . Both units ran awesome for me too for well over a year , using 2 chillers was a pain to cool using iceboxes . I ended up selling out , only because my equipment was undersized nd mixed matched . Eco plus needs to make a bigger unit ! I liked my ecoplus unit as well . It's been a few days now and I'm probably just going to pass on the chiller . For me to get a banks 2ton or chill king it's over 5000$ CND. Which is way too much 2500/ton lol then pumps ect . Looking into ac packages now

Chilled water cooling isn't the easiest route for sure. It just works real good. I'd think in Canada you could use outside air for cooling. I'm running open hoods in So Cal with no a/c, just outside air in the cool months. I'd recommend a Daikin mini-split for a/c.

yes water has much higher specific heat capacity, but that does not make chillers inherantly more efficient. just smaller and much more flexible.

at small scales, with conventional equipment... they just are not appreciably more efficient, and are likely LESS efficient than even a single stage split system.

regardless, like i said earlier, these things just cost way to much to even begin to approach the practicality of things like conventional split ac systems or even minisplits.

at huge 50 ton + scales, chillers become more and more efficient and more and more practical as centrifugal compressors and liquid heat exchange's scale very very favorably.

A properly set up chilled water system will ALWAYS be more energy efficient than a conventional air conditioner, be it 1/2 ton or 100 tons.

 

[Ttystikk]

yes water has much higher specific heat capacity, but that does not make chillers inherantly more efficient. just smaller and much more flexible.

at small scales, with conventional equipment... they just are not appreciably more efficient, and are likely LESS efficient than even a single stage split system.

regardless, like i said earlier, these things just cost way to much to even begin to approach the practicality of things like conventional split ac systems or even minisplits.

at huge 50 ton + scales, chillers become more and more efficient and more and more practical as centrifugal compressors and liquid heat exchange's scale very very favorably.

So do you have any math, any training or ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL to back up your claims here? No, you're just talking out of your ass like every other stupid stoner.

The truth about chilling is that is more efficient. If you scale down, it's less efficient but STILL beats AC of the same capacity. Scaling up, it gets more efficient and relatively compact to the point where AC isn't a viable option. I have this stuff called physics I can use if you'd like to see proof.

Or maybe the fact that I run a 24kW op on just 4 Tons of
water cooling capacity is enough for it to sink in? Probably not. Most people don't let little things like facts get in the way of their fondly held notions... witness the mess called politics in this country.

 

[Ttystikk]

Chilled water cooling isn't the easiest route for sure. It just works real good. I'd think in Canada you could use outside air for cooling. I'm running open hoods in So Cal with no a/c, just outside air in the cool months. I'd recommend a Daikin mini-split for a/c.


A properly set up chilled water system will ALWAYS be more energy efficient than a conventional air conditioner, be it 1/2 ton or 100 tons.

Ecoplus makes toys. Active aqua is for aquariums. Water cooling in general is best for large scale, commercial operations, where it can be more permanently installed.

For such industrial applications, there's only one real choice; ChillKing. Theirs are better and far more reliable than anything else I've found on the market.

And just wait 'til y'all see what I do with their 5 Ton chiller with hot gas recovery.

 

[eebbnflow]

the main kicker for watercooling for me is : much easier to control multiple zones with simple plumbing, 1 condensor outside vs 2 mini split (damper package not an option) . 2tons is more than I need , more room for later . Skeptical om the chill king window unit. . In Canada all I can find are industrial type for injection molding nothing like a banks 2ton
I'm no engineer. Just saying the Eco plus didn't seem all that bad for 1ton of cooling . More bad reviews on the chill king window mount , Amazon . The chill king is easier for me to get here in Canada online though I'm considering one

 

[eebbnflow]

Chill king has a nice 2ton non window unit but it's a water cooled chiller . my understanding that would mean hooking it up to a tap for DTW ?

 

[Ez Rider]

Ecoplus makes toys. Active aqua is for aquariums. Water cooling in general is best for large scale, commercial operations, where it can be more permanently installed.

For such industrial applications, there's only one real choice; ChillKing. Theirs are better and far more reliable than anything else I've found on the market.

And just wait 'til y'all see what I do with their 5 Ton chiller with hot gas recovery.

The commercial series by ecoplus is as good as anything out there for it's size. That "toy" performed continuously and flawlessly for over a year and a half, all while being mounted outside on a slab, not taking up one of my windows. The unit is still fully functional, I just don't need it with my new system. The notion that chillking is something special is simply not true. Their chillers are just more purpose geared towards growers and residential environments than other brands. If I was going with a 5-ton chiller, I'd get a Trane. I've never seen anyone but growers use chillkings. I've seen Tranes(and others) everywhere. If chillkings setup was so great, I'd expect to see it in more commercial applications...I don't. Besides chillking charges about 2x what the stuff is actually worth, simply because they're selling to growers. I can't encourage that kind of behavior.

 

[St. Phatty]

I like fluid cooled & water cooled systems.

Once I had a chance to cool a 10 kiloWatt system that was in a space about 4 inches by 12 inches (the part that got really hot), and the limitation was, by blowing air through it. Heat output was 1 kilowatt.

The fan cost about $5K and was about 4 inches diameter and 4 inches long.

 

[queequeg152]

A properly set up chilled water system will ALWAYS be more energy efficient than a conventional air conditioner, be it 1/2 ton or 100 tons.

this just is not true.

chillers, even small chillers using conventional equipment CAN BE appreciably more efficient... watts in to watts removed, especially if they are water cooled via geothermal loops or evaporative towers, but most air cooled chillers at small scales like this are not.



chillers become very efficient once you past like 150 tons, where you can run screw compressors on three phase power with a VFD, multiple stages, variable speed blowers and pumps etc.

this type of equipment is not available at very small scales. most chillers are built with cheap low capacity equipment like residential condensing units.

converting one of these units into a chiller is like converting cars drive train from RWD to front wheel drive. sure one can be more efficient, but not necessarily.

minisplit condensing units CAN be adapted to use as a chiller, but ive never seen one that even approaches the cost of a conventional minisplit. were talking like 3+ grand per ton.

heat engines generally become more efficient as the temperature gradient between the hot and cold side approach each other. however, as the temperatures approach each other, the amount of energy you can harness drops as well.

part of the reason chillers can be so efficient is because this temp delta is lower, much lower than an air sourced unit rejecting its heat to 90 degree air. a lower delta means a lower pressure drop across the sink and source, and a lower pressure equates to less work required by the compressor to overcome the difference in pressures. this is called the system head or something like that.
much of the systems and automation and economizing equipment involved in complicated chiller plants involves managing this pressure drop by respondng to varyling loads.

chillers are VERY good at this because they can use centrifugal and screw compressors which respond very favorably to throttling.

but centrifugal compressors and to a lesser extend screw compressors do not scale down well at all. meaning you cant really build small ones that perform as well as very large ones. this is true of many heat engines... the internal combustion diesel in particular.

single phase 2 pole electrical power is also not ideal from the standpoint of varying the speed of these power hungry compressors... hence the need for very expensive inverter power supplies for the minisplit units.

small chillers can take advantage of the fact that a small high efficiency pump can take all of the cooling load where as a conventional system requires fractional HP fans... 1/4 to 2hp belt driven fans for those 15 ton package units. but you have to add back in the watts consumed at the fan coil.

assuming the chiller condensing unit is operating well at ideal conditions, this power savings is usually minimal, and certainly not worth the huge additional expense. this MAY change some day... but not anytime soon from what i can tell.

it would require the mega manufacturers of residential grade equipment to take up chillers in a serious manner. right now there is not much cost justification for doing so.

 

[queequeg152]

So do you have any math, any training or ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL to back up your claims here? No, you're just talking out of your ass like every other stupid stoner.

The truth about chilling is that is more efficient. If you scale down, it's less efficient but STILL beats AC of the same capacity. Scaling up, it gets more efficient and relatively compact to the point where AC isn't a viable option. I have this stuff called physics I can use if you'd like to see proof.

Or maybe the fact that I run a 24kW op on just 4 Tons of
water cooling capacity is enough for it to sink in? Probably not. Most people don't let little things like facts get in the way of their fondly held notions... witness the mess called politics in this country.

ive probably forgotten more about hvac than you have bothered to learn. id love to see your "physics", but i suspect its a bullshit claim.

its literally impossible to remove 92kbtuh( 24kw/h) with a 4 ton system.

assumign 100% efficiency a 4 ton system would remove like 14kw/h. at a cost of 14kwh

so where is the other 10 kwh going? not through your "4 ton" chiller that's for sure.

its either a much larger chiller, or you are loosing heat to the environment or throgh some other means. or you are lying.

please read this before making such absurd claims.

http://www.powerknot.com/how-efficient-is-your-air-conditioning-system.html