Water Cooled Growers Unite!

[packy]

Ok so where are we at 3 years later?
Simply what is the best route now for a 6-8 1k light Closed room , traditional A/C or water cooled. Any up dates. Please feedback on only those two systems, cause most of us are renting (with consent of course or live in the city so no pool, streams, or bury it in the back yard. Just based on those two which way do you swing???

yes thread is old but new people are coming on all the time.

 

[packy]

Or maybe a hybrid of the two

 

[budleydoright]

For the sake of simplicity my vote is for an open hood system with a properly sized AC.

Each 1k balanced out with 4000btu of refrigerated air creates an environment with the right amount of RH at the right tempurature very easily.

A cooled light or LED array may require the use of additional heat or substantial dehumidifiers to keep things in check. A dehumidifier is just another refrigeration unit whereas dehumidification is a byproduct of refrigerated air. So in a sense, you may as well ad heat with your lamps and have the AC remove the heat and moisture together as opposed to cooling your lights and then heating it backup with a dehuey.

Water cooling lights is a bitch. Water cooled AC is another story.

 

[poindexterous]

Haven't checked in here for some time! About 4 years now running 4K in 4 fresca sol's on a 360 degree light rotator(photo a few pages back). After the initial crazy plumbing job, and a few adjustments and fixes early on it's been surprisingly totally reliable and incident free for years now. While it's certainly not the simplest system I'm very happy with it. I would however like to add some LED's for a few more lumens, not sure what brand yet, nor have shot the lock off my wallet with the prices!

I'd say to do water cooled lights you probably have to love hose, pumps, fittings, and crazy plumbing for the sake of it, since as BD points out it's not the keep-it-simple option for sure!

Best!

P

 

[budleydoright]

Wow my frescas fell apart. The powdercoat between the glass flaked off then it was just a matter of time.

 

[Ttystikk]

Ok so where are we at 3 years later?
Simply what is the best route now for a 6-8 1k light Closed room , traditional A/C or water cooled. Any up dates. Please feedback on only those two systems, cause most of us are renting (with consent of course or live in the city so no pool, streams, or bury it in the back yard. Just based on those two which way do you swing???

yes thread is old but new people are coming on all the time.

Budley said it. Much as I would like to extoll the virtues of water chilling for all, the simple fact is that water chilling more than one or two spaces will be a big buildout and will make a mess of a rental fast.

 

[Ttystikk]

I currently run two x 2 Ton ChillKing window mount chillers, which cool;
12 bare bulbs (6 each on a flip schedule)
2kW veg
Several RDWC
Dehuey all spaces

Because there are multiple spaces, AC wasn't a viable option for me. One chiller comes in from the windowsill in October and hearts the house all winter. This trick alone saves over a thousand dollars a winter in gas bills, and has thus paid for the chiller. That's in addition to the efficiency gains over AC for indoor gardening.

There are some circumstances where I could see a water cooled op being done in a rental home; a window mount chiller would be a mandatory first step, and having adjacent rooms would be important to keep runs of waterlines short and out from underfoot.

 

[Ez Rider]

Wow my frescas fell apart. The powdercoat between the glass flaked off then it was just a matter of time.

You had the OLD ones. The newer frescas have a mono gasket instead of the 2 rings. The water never comes in contact with the metal. They work way better. I live in the same city as the manufacturer, and was able to upgrade my old frescas for $75 each. Just a matter of changing out the ends. The newer frescas all come with the mono gasket.

 

[budleydoright]

You had the OLD ones. The newer frescas have a mono gasket instead of the 2 rings. The water never comes in contact with the metal. They work way better. I live in the same city as the manufacturer, and was able to upgrade my old frescas for $75 each. Just a matter of changing out the ends. The newer frescas all come with the mono gasket.

Yea, they offered to SELL me a fix but at that point I was thinking they had more of my money than they deserved.

 

[Ez Rider]

Yea, they offered to SELL me a fix but at that point I was thinking they had more of my money than they deserved.

I can understand your point of view for sure. I must say that I've been very happy with mine. I bought the originals on CL, 3 for $150. So even with the new ends, I'm only in $375 for the 3. The guy who sold them couldn't figure out why a 1/4hp aquarium chiller wouldn't handle 3K with a 20gal res! He gave me the 1/4 hp chiller for free because "it didn't work". Not too bad. I'd agree that original purchasers with receipt should have got replacements at a steep discount at the very least.

I honestly can't think of another viable solution in my situation, and it's considerably cheeper than using an ac, even though I use a 1hp chiller.

 

[Ttystikk]

I can understand your point of view for sure. I must say that I've been very happy with mine. I bought the originals on CL, 3 for $150. So even with the new ends, I'm only in $375 for the 3. The guy who sold them couldn't figure out why a 1/4hp aquarium chiller wouldn't handle 3K with a 20gal res! He gave me the 1/4 hp chiller for free because "it didn't work". Not too bad. I'd agree that original purchasers with receipt should have got replacements at a steep discount at the very least.

I honestly can't think of another viable solution in my situation, and it's considerably cheeper than using an ac, even though I use a 1hp chiller.

I will admit this was seductive for me, but I decided in the end that the fewer layers of material between light source and plant leaf, the better. Controlling my environment is more challenging, however, so there are tradeoffs, and your fresca sols do have their strengths.

 

[Ez Rider]

I will admit this was seductive for me, but I decided in the end that the fewer layers of material between light source and plant leaf, the better. Controlling my environment is more challenging, however, so there are tradeoffs, and your fresca sols do have their strengths.

They work very well for my situation. Only big downside is I can't use the chiller to dehumidify or my lights will go boom! I really don't have much humidity trouble anyway. I have a small dehuy outside the tent for those rare occasions. Heat is my big problem. If I had an actual room, or better yet a flip-flop, I'd really take a look at water cooled air handlers. At the end of the day, you need to transfer excess heat from the grow. Water transfers heat WAY better than air...pretty simple. I am looking at using my chillers extra capacity, and an icebox to help cool the air intake in the summer, which is the only time the frescas have any trouble at all.

I've been looking at several of your threads, and you've really got me thinking about new possibilities

 

[Ttystikk]

They work very well for my situation. Only big downside is I can't use the chiller to dehumidify or my lights will go boom! I really don't have much humidity trouble anyway. I have a small dehuy outside the tent for those rare occasions. Heat is my big problem. If I had an actual room, or better yet a flip-flop, I'd really take a look at water cooled air handlers. At the end of the day, you need to transfer excess heat from the grow. Water transfers heat WAY better than air...pretty simple. I am looking at using my chillers extra capacity, and an icebox to help cool the air intake in the summer, which is the only time the frescas have any trouble at all.

I've been looking at several of your threads, and you've really got me thinking about new possibilities

Thank you, that's quite a compliment! You have ME thinking about double stacked fresca sols in my silo! Maybe triple...? What's a little overkill among friends?! (Spoken like the true gamer geek that I am)

You can make an extra circuit for an Icebox air to water heat exchanger. Blow air through it, don't suck. Do it in a space as sealed as you can get it, so heat doesn't leak back in. Yup, that means getting a CO² bottle and controller, but you're already spending the money for CEA, you may as well be getting all the benefits. If you run the water in the chiller circuit cold enough, the icebox will get condensation and voilá! No more humidity problems. In other words, this will solve both temperature and humidity issues, given enough chiller capacity. I'd say your one Ton unit is good for 1-2 bare bulbs, or 3 n maybe 4 if they're in sealed n vented hoods. Your fresca sol units should be counting them as bare.

If you have any questions or comments about my grows I'm very interested in hearing them!

 

[budleydoright]

I can understand your point of view for sure. I must say that I've been very happy with mine. I bought the originals on CL, 3 for $150. So even with the new ends, I'm only in $375 for the 3. The guy who sold them couldn't figure out why a 1/4hp aquarium chiller wouldn't handle 3K with a 20gal res! He gave me the 1/4 hp chiller for free because "it didn't work". Not too bad. I'd agree that original purchasers with receipt should have got replacements at a steep discount at the very least.

I honestly can't think of another viable solution in my situation, and it's considerably cheeper than using an ac, even though I use a 1hp chiller.

Like I said the problem started pretty quick. When I inquired about the issue,
I was told it was purely cosmetic and would not affect performance. After the performance was affected and the lights started to fail, they simply claimed that warranty is expired and they make no exceptions.

Pretty short sited imho. I would still be using them instead of talking about their failure if they would have made it right.

 

[Ez Rider]

Thank you, that's quite a compliment! You have ME thinking about double stacked fresca sols in my silo! Maybe triple...? What's a little overkill among friends?! (Spoken like the true gamer geek that I am)

You can make an extra circuit for an Icebox air to water heat exchanger. Blow air through it, don't suck. Do it in a space as sealed as you can get it, so heat doesn't leak back in. Yup, that means getting a CO² bottle and controller, but you're already spending the money for CEA, you may as well be getting all the benefits. If you run the water in the chiller circuit cold enough, the icebox will get condensation and voilá! No more humidity problems. In other words, this will solve both temperature and humidity issues, given enough chiller capacity. I'd say your one Ton unit is good for 1-2 bare bulbs, or 3 n maybe 4 if they're in sealed n vented hoods. Your fresca sol units should be counting them as bare.

If you have any questions or comments about my grows I'm very interested in hearing them!

As long as I run the frescas, I can't run the chiller they're on below the dewpoint. I'm positive something bad would happen.

I run fairly strong intake and exhaust in the tent, which sits in a large room. Most of the year, an open window is all I need to maintain <80F under the lights. In the summer, even with my central a/c, it will sometimes go as high as 86F and never under 80F, lights on.

I'm thinking I'll set the chiller much closer to the dewpoint, and put a 6" icebox inline with the cws line, and with the 6" intake fan. Hopefully the colder intake will cool the tent to an acceptable temp. Only problem I see is most likely needing a timed bypass circuit on the icebox for lights off.

The chiller is rated at ~9000btu, and each bulb is just over 3000btu input. Theoretically, I've still got close to a 1/4 ton of cooling left. I may as well use it.

I've been looking at vert frescas too, but that's a ways down the road. You'll hear from me again for sure.

 

[Ez Rider]

Like I said the problem started pretty quick. When I inquired about the issue,
I was told it was purely cosmetic and would not affect performance. After the performance was affected and the lights started to fail, they simply claimed that warranty is expired and they make no exceptions.

Pretty short sited imho. I would still be using them instead of talking about their failure if they would have made it right.

Hey, if it was up to me, you'd get new ends for free. The powdercoat coming off was fairly common on the old ones. Especially if you didn't keep the cooling water dialed at 7.5-8.0ph, or if you replaced the plastic barbs with brass ones. My frescas have been trouble free for over 2 years now and I expect several more.

 

[budleydoright]

As long as I run the frescas, I can't run the chiller they're on below the dewpoint. I'm positive something bad would happen.

I run fairly strong intake and exhaust in the tent, which sits in a large room. Most of the year, an open window is all I need to maintain <80F under the lights. In the summer, even with my central a/c, it will sometimes go as high as 86F and never under 80F, lights on.

I'm thinking I'll set the chiller much closer to the dewpoint, and put a 6" icebox inline with the cws line, and with the 6" intake fan. Hopefully the colder intake will cool the tent to an acceptable temp. Only problem I see is most likely needing a timed bypass circuit on the icebox for lights off.

The chiller is rated at ~9000btu, and each bulb is just over 3000btu input. Theoretically, I've still got close to a 1/4 ton of cooling left. I may as well use it.

I've been looking at vert frescas too, but that's a ways down the road. You'll hear from me again for sure.

Maybe you could use water below the dew point, run it into an icebox and then into your lights, inline. The icebox may be able to raise the water from below the dewpoint to prevent condensation on the glass but facilitate it on the icebox. Just a thought.

 

[Ez Rider]

Maybe you could use water below the dew point, run it into an icebox and then into your lights, inline. The icebox may be able to raise the water from below the dewpoint to prevent condensation on the glass but facilitate it on the icebox. Just a thought.

Until I upgrade to open gavitas, I'll stick with above dewpoint water. Why tempt fate? When I go open bulb/sealed room, I'll use the chiller to feed a water-cooled air-handler/dehum of some sort. For just the lights, running the water cooler than ~65f doesn't seem to make a difference. This summer I'll drop it to ~50F to feed the icebox/intake with lights on. This should give me a nice a/c effect in the tent. I'll plumb in a bypass on a timer, so the icebox is only fed light on. Don't want to freeze the plants lights off.

 

[Ttystikk]

Until I upgrade to open gavitas, I'll stick with above dewpoint water. Why tempt fate? When I go open bulb/sealed room, I'll use the chiller to feed a water-cooled air-handler/dehum of some sort. For just the lights, running the water cooler than ~65f doesn't seem to make a difference. This summer I'll drop it to ~50F to feed the icebox/intake with lights on. This should give me a nice a/c effect in the tent. I'll plumb in a bypass on a timer, so the icebox is only fed light on. Don't want to freeze the plants lights off.

I did a lil research on this. From the best that I can find, your light will eliminate dewpoint problems on the inside of your fresca sol just because it's sealed- there's no moisture to condense inside (unless you screwed them together on a rainy day, lol). Any moisture that might condense on the outside would be harmless and would evaporate soon after the light came on, anyway.

The problem would be that in order to get dehuey at night, your fixtures would drip, as they'd be below dewpoint, too.

It's a similar problem to the one I'm dealing with; my whole op uses one chilling circuit, so everything connected to it becomes another item at or below dewpoint. Sometimes my tubsites sweat so much people think there's a leak!

 

[Ez Rider]

I did a lil research on this. From the best that I can find, your light will eliminate dewpoint problems on the inside of your fresca sol just because it's sealed- there's no moisture to condense inside (unless you screwed them together on a rainy day, lol). Any moisture that might condense on the outside would be harmless and would evaporate soon after the light came on, anyway.

The problem would be that in order to get dehuey at night, your fixtures would drip, as they'd be below dewpoint, too.

It's a similar problem to the one I'm dealing with; my whole op uses one chilling circuit, so everything connected to it becomes another item at or below dewpoint. Sometimes my tubsites sweat so much people think there's a leak!

The bulb is most definitely not "sealed" in the fresca. I have to vacuum gnats out of the inside all the time. The only thing "sealed" is the space between the 2 tubes. The inner space is basically open. There are end covers, but they have weep holes in case of leaks or condensation. They also have notches for the water lines. I assure you, If I ran my water below the dewpoint, the insides of the tubes would sweat on a humid day.