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Water cooled co2
- Thread starter Bozo
- Start date
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T
THCV
water cooling for this uses a lot of water. like taking a hot shower on and off for 12 hours. I always figured this is best for Canadian grows, where water is cheap, cold, and replenished annually. Here in socal, water-cooling is a crime (almost), so electricity gets used instead (AC). Water-cooled lights, heat-exchangers/chillers, and this new water-cooled CO2 gen all make sense up north, and maybe a few other watery parts of the US, but not where I grow. Too bad, cuz it is a cool idea, and seems to be more effective than air cooling in general. But water is too precious for us. 
B
badugi
What type of venting are you speaking of?BlindDate said:
Bozo
Active member
Blind the manual for my 5 L unit says max flow rate 2gpm .The inlet on this thing is 1/2 '' pretty small and you can reduce the flow of water with dial .I agree if you live in a water challenged area this thing aint for you .On the other hand if you live where it rains 250 days a year snows the other 115 and you have to work out in it I think you deserve to enjoy some of the rewards water can bring !
I will run it into a 5 gal bucket on high and time a minute to be sure this weekend some time
I will run it into a 5 gal bucket on high and time a minute to be sure this weekend some time
B
badugi
Just curious, what happens on a leap year?Bozo said:
Bozo
Active member
I have been looking closely at hooking mine up ,the outlet pipe is smaller than the inlet
This allows it to them to heat water better.I have some time today too cold to work so I will be hooking it up today .hopefully I will get the CHHC-1 today also and can report on how well it works .A/C isnt installed but I would love to be able to get it up to 1500 ppm the way i have it ,so what if i use twice as much propane .Offf to Home DePot for the plumbing supplies .I have been needing water plumbed in there anyway sick of packing jugs into room I'm gettin old and 5 gal jugs are to
This allows it to them to heat water better.I have some time today too cold to work so I will be hooking it up today .hopefully I will get the CHHC-1 today also and can report on how well it works .A/C isnt installed but I would love to be able to get it up to 1500 ppm the way i have it ,so what if i use twice as much propane .Offf to Home DePot for the plumbing supplies .I have been needing water plumbed in there anyway sick of packing jugs into room I'm gettin old and 5 gal jugs are to
Bozo
Active member
Install complete, with fans off it takes 1 min to bring room to 1500 ppm on the lowwest possible setting .I am tickled to death with the co2 output on th 5 L model And the best part,the water cooled exhaust works better than I expected the exhaust temp are in the low 50s. Yup low 50s for the exhaust that is so hot you cant hold hand on the pipe before it goes through the bozo box (ice box).I couldnt be happier thanks hydro inovations for the idea.CHHC-1 works great controling the water soleniod valve (in same room as a 1K lumatec digi no ill effects) .Only thing I dont like it the tiny 3 inch fan i put on icebox I am going to put a 80 cfm suncort duct booster I have laying around on it ,a tiny bit of heat is excaping out of top I belive I can increase amount of air I draw .Ice box works so well I will tweak air flow through it till I have ZERO heat in room from the heater.I belive after tonights test burn it is very possible to scrub all the heat from this thing on low ,possible even on high but test tonight showwed on high this unit will give off more heat than the little 3 inch fan can suck through the cooler and heat leaks out side vents .Bigger fan should solve this ,but not to big I belive there is a fine line
When AC gets here tommorow I will build box and install it and do more tests but I can tell all ready this ones a winner and let me assure you I have build more than one losser .I dont post pictures but I am so proud of this baby I might just have to snap a few and post em Happy HolliDaZe
When AC gets here tommorow I will build box and install it and do more tests but I can tell all ready this ones a winner and let me assure you I have build more than one losser .I dont post pictures but I am so proud of this baby I might just have to snap a few and post em Happy HolliDaZe
BubsNugs
Member
Please get some pics. I need to reread thread because im pretty baked but i think your takin a hotwater heater n venting its exhaust through some sorta cooler n therefire gettin rid of the heat but still getting the co2.
Neat idea.I saw the video on youtube with the watercooled co2 unit in that setup wasnt buddy using a res/chiller combo for the cooling?? if so i dont see wgats the prob re water use???
Peace
neat idea
Neat idea.I saw the video on youtube with the watercooled co2 unit in that setup wasnt buddy using a res/chiller combo for the cooling?? if so i dont see wgats the prob re water use???
Peace
neat idea
Bozo
Active member
Yes Bubs he was usin a tiny rez and recirculating but the set up he had would get too hot cause the water would get hot in no time unless you set it up like they show on there web site .Go read the water specs on this thing before you concider a recirculating system .A chiller would work I think but if I had to buy a chiller I never woulda gone this route .I plan on writing Hydro inovations and letting them know there missing out on a big selling point and lying to public @ same time by not showwing there icebox cooling exhaust and saying exhaust is not hot .The exhaust as it comes from heater is hot does not scrub 86% of heat ,so 86% efficient does not translate to 86% of heat being taken away by water ,or so it seems .The real joy of this system will be lost to those that dont cool there exhaust.
I will report findings later tonight after I install the 4 inch suncourt duct booster I know I will be happy with bigger fan and I can speed control it if I have to for less turbulance if it tries to suck flames out .
I will report findings later tonight after I install the 4 inch suncourt duct booster I know I will be happy with bigger fan and I can speed control it if I have to for less turbulance if it tries to suck flames out .
Bozo
Active member
100% heat scrub on low and i was able to use foil tape on top to help close up vent and dirrect all the exhaust out the pipe through cooler .@ lights on takes 45 sec to brings room to 1500ppm,it over shoots to over 1800ppm .No heat except the pipe from heater to icebox and it only gets warm for a sec .Refires @1475 for 20 sec max exhaust pipe barely has time to get warm at all I can hold my hand on it whole 20 sec .Fires bout every 30 mins but I can improve on that by sealing room better,bout 16 gallons per 12 hours .Exaust temps are cooler than the room air .I keep fan running through icebox 24/7 to evaporate the condensation that ocurs inside ( there was quite a bit night i took cover off to change fan out)I also had to insulate the water lines because the cold water in them causes them to condensate
Well thats it was money well spent I now have a semi sealed room with A/C took the ducts off my lighs and removed the glass .It is so much brighter I hated the glass but it was nessesary to cool room with carbon scrubber .Oh yeah I got to turn off the 2 -6 inch vortexs i had running no longer sounds like an airport in there .I bought a vaportex 4000 and love it set on 1 it takes care of 110% of the smells .And best of all water cooled CO2 and i recon 5 gallons of propane gonna last many months
It wasnt cheap 200$ water heater , 450$ a/c 250$ vaportec, 75$ water soleniod valve , 550$ CHHC-1 , 200$ plumbing supplies ,100$new 5gal propane tank (full) 12 foot hose and regulator ,50$ to build icebox if you include the 4 inch fan(I had one laying around) 2 K give or take I live where I had to ship all of that stuff including the A/C you could do it cheaper else where but not much I shopped around and found best deals i could on stuff Well good luck if you do this hope I covered any questions you might have if not post yer question and I will try to help
Well thats it was money well spent I now have a semi sealed room with A/C took the ducts off my lighs and removed the glass .It is so much brighter I hated the glass but it was nessesary to cool room with carbon scrubber .Oh yeah I got to turn off the 2 -6 inch vortexs i had running no longer sounds like an airport in there .I bought a vaportex 4000 and love it set on 1 it takes care of 110% of the smells .And best of all water cooled CO2 and i recon 5 gallons of propane gonna last many months
It wasnt cheap 200$ water heater , 450$ a/c 250$ vaportec, 75$ water soleniod valve , 550$ CHHC-1 , 200$ plumbing supplies ,100$new 5gal propane tank (full) 12 foot hose and regulator ,50$ to build icebox if you include the 4 inch fan(I had one laying around) 2 K give or take I live where I had to ship all of that stuff including the A/C you could do it cheaper else where but not much I shopped around and found best deals i could on stuff Well good luck if you do this hope I covered any questions you might have if not post yer question and I will try to help
Cotyledons
Member
Bozo,
You had planned on writing Hydro Innovations about their products but there is no need we are listening. It's very interesting to us that you are complaining about the performance of the HydroGEN, but you don't own any H.I. products. I'm affiliated with Hydro Innovations and there are some things that you need to know about. First of all the HydroGEN is a MODIFIED tankless hot water heater made by Marey Corp, the owner does not deny this. What is important to pass along to readers on this forum are the critical differences between the two units that involve your safety and your plants' health, along with the difference in performance between the two units.
The most important point is that burner has been redesigned for clean burning to avoid the build up of bad gasses in the grow room. H.I. tested 6 different brands of tankless hot water heater and found out that all of them produced bad gasses, which include carbon monoxide (CO) and ethylene. This is fine for venting the gasses outside in hot water heater applications but dangerous for you and your garden. In the instruction manual of these units, including the 5L, it specifically warns NOT to use the product in a sealed or semi-sealed environment. H.I. spent thousands of dollars working with engineers, making prototype burners, and testing their units to make sure that they are safe for you to use indoors (w/o venting). This was a very difficult job b/c of the unit being adjustable, even the regulator had to be matched to the burner for this to be accomplished. H.I. also includes an oxygen depletion sensor for added safety, this protects you and your garden in case of a co2 monitor malfunction that leaves the burner running constantly (it happens). A CO alarm is only going to alert you if the levels are dangerously high. Even small amounts of the gasses can damage a crop. I hope that you aren't using this in your home, CO is called "the silent killer" for a reason. "Google" incomplete combustion of propane for more specific information about this issue.
You complain about the performance of the HydroGEN and say that the video is all smoke and mirrors, and saying that they are lying about the results. Did you ever consider that the units are different??? The HydroGEN heat exchanger was upgraded too. The redesigned heat exchanger uses threaded tube copper instead of smooth wall copper. This means that there are cooling fins on the inside of the copper tubing raising the efficiency of the unit. Also the copper tubing is the same size through the unit allowing more water flow.
H.I. will be offering a custom "Ice Box" for the HydroGEN. It will install directly and securely on top of the ducting flange (has a ducting flange on the other side too). This heat exchanger will be supplied with the unit at NO additional charge to the customer. They are way ahead of you on that.
Not only are these things different but it also comes with regulator and 12' hose, hardware for connecting 1/2" tubing, mounting holes to chain hang, 14 page instruction manual, and customer service geared towards gardening...for $200 difference. Taking a risk yourself is one thing, but encouraging others to so the same could get someone hurt. It's like me handing out medical advice, something that I know nothing about.
You had planned on writing Hydro Innovations about their products but there is no need we are listening. It's very interesting to us that you are complaining about the performance of the HydroGEN, but you don't own any H.I. products. I'm affiliated with Hydro Innovations and there are some things that you need to know about. First of all the HydroGEN is a MODIFIED tankless hot water heater made by Marey Corp, the owner does not deny this. What is important to pass along to readers on this forum are the critical differences between the two units that involve your safety and your plants' health, along with the difference in performance between the two units.
The most important point is that burner has been redesigned for clean burning to avoid the build up of bad gasses in the grow room. H.I. tested 6 different brands of tankless hot water heater and found out that all of them produced bad gasses, which include carbon monoxide (CO) and ethylene. This is fine for venting the gasses outside in hot water heater applications but dangerous for you and your garden. In the instruction manual of these units, including the 5L, it specifically warns NOT to use the product in a sealed or semi-sealed environment. H.I. spent thousands of dollars working with engineers, making prototype burners, and testing their units to make sure that they are safe for you to use indoors (w/o venting). This was a very difficult job b/c of the unit being adjustable, even the regulator had to be matched to the burner for this to be accomplished. H.I. also includes an oxygen depletion sensor for added safety, this protects you and your garden in case of a co2 monitor malfunction that leaves the burner running constantly (it happens). A CO alarm is only going to alert you if the levels are dangerously high. Even small amounts of the gasses can damage a crop. I hope that you aren't using this in your home, CO is called "the silent killer" for a reason. "Google" incomplete combustion of propane for more specific information about this issue.
You complain about the performance of the HydroGEN and say that the video is all smoke and mirrors, and saying that they are lying about the results. Did you ever consider that the units are different??? The HydroGEN heat exchanger was upgraded too. The redesigned heat exchanger uses threaded tube copper instead of smooth wall copper. This means that there are cooling fins on the inside of the copper tubing raising the efficiency of the unit. Also the copper tubing is the same size through the unit allowing more water flow.
H.I. will be offering a custom "Ice Box" for the HydroGEN. It will install directly and securely on top of the ducting flange (has a ducting flange on the other side too). This heat exchanger will be supplied with the unit at NO additional charge to the customer. They are way ahead of you on that.
Not only are these things different but it also comes with regulator and 12' hose, hardware for connecting 1/2" tubing, mounting holes to chain hang, 14 page instruction manual, and customer service geared towards gardening...for $200 difference. Taking a risk yourself is one thing, but encouraging others to so the same could get someone hurt. It's like me handing out medical advice, something that I know nothing about.
Last edited by a moderator:
Bozo
Active member
where did I complain about the performance?I never bought one your suppliers were behind the curve offering stuff you couldnt ship or they didnt have .Now you are offering the icebox free LOLOL I will belive that when I see it! (Yeah go ahead and mount that plactic thing directly to exhaust it will melt )You claimed in vidieo exhaust wasnt hot .What now it needs cooled like I did?
I bought yer water valve (kinda cheesey I ordered a replacement for when it stops working )
I mentioned the o2 depletion sensor and agree it is important .So I dont understand why you sound like I never mentioned the O2 depletion sensor? Are you mad ?
I would love some info on special burners that burn cleaner.I am just curious why I am just now hearing it and it isnt part of your sales pitch,and the special threaded heat exchanger both great selling points and stuff people should know (This is the place to tell people about that?)
I am truely happy yer soo upset and after reading this very happy I didnt send you an email (Its ok to steal my idea for cooling the exhaust ,no need to lie also )
I bought yer water valve (kinda cheesey I ordered a replacement for when it stops working )
I mentioned the o2 depletion sensor and agree it is important .So I dont understand why you sound like I never mentioned the O2 depletion sensor? Are you mad ?
I would love some info on special burners that burn cleaner.I am just curious why I am just now hearing it and it isnt part of your sales pitch,and the special threaded heat exchanger both great selling points and stuff people should know (This is the place to tell people about that?)
I am truely happy yer soo upset and after reading this very happy I didnt send you an email (Its ok to steal my idea for cooling the exhaust ,no need to lie also )
Bozo
Active member
Look At there only other post now look at time I posted in http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=106793&page=4&pp=15
441 am I get this then 3 mins later 444 am smurf responds in above thread .Odd when you concider Cotyledons only has one other post and it is in
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=106987
maybe I am wrong but they seem like the same person to me(smurf and Cotyledons) ,could just be the shitty attitude they both have ,could just be Cotyledons was lookin for a friend before he came here all johny come lately telling everyone about the special features not listed on there own web site that i linked in this thread
Kinda Odd the timing thou right after the first pics i have ever uploaded ,and in other thread smurf was callin me out to post grow pics (something I will never do this is a classic example of why )
441 am I get this then 3 mins later 444 am smurf responds in above thread .Odd when you concider Cotyledons only has one other post and it is in
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=106987
maybe I am wrong but they seem like the same person to me(smurf and Cotyledons) ,could just be the shitty attitude they both have ,could just be Cotyledons was lookin for a friend before he came here all johny come lately telling everyone about the special features not listed on there own web site that i linked in this thread
Kinda Odd the timing thou right after the first pics i have ever uploaded ,and in other thread smurf was callin me out to post grow pics (something I will never do this is a classic example of why )
Cotyledons
Member
Also one other important detail that I forgot to mention. Using a fan and ducting to distribute the co2 enriched air is ok and very convenient but must be done carefully. If the fan used is too powerful it will cause airflow inside the unit which will definitely cause the flame to distort and incomplete combustion WILL occur. It's the equivalent to blowing on any flame...it essentially changes the way the flame burns.
When propane burns the co2 doesn't "fall" out of the the unit...the co2 is the warm air that is released. Since warm air naturally rises, on a non-ducted setup mounted inside the grow room, the co2 would naturally pool around the ceiling of the garden until it cools and falls slowly to the floor. If ducting the HydroGEN from outside the grow room over a short distance, for ex. through a wall in to the next room, it will not be necessary to use a fan at all. Since the co2 naturally rises it will continue through the ducting until it is released in to the garden.
Bozo,
If running over a long distance a 4" duct booster fan can be used, BUT YOU MUST NOT COVER THE VENT HOLES ON THE SIDE OF THE UNIT WITH ANYTHING!!! These vents are very important especially when using a fan. When they are covered you are forcing all the air drawn by your fan through the bottom of the unit and ultimately over the burner assembly, not a good idea. Leaving these vents uncovered would allow most of the air to be drawn in ABOVE the burner assembly. Your photos do not show that you have done this but in an earlier post you mention doing that...just for your own safety.
When propane burns the co2 doesn't "fall" out of the the unit...the co2 is the warm air that is released. Since warm air naturally rises, on a non-ducted setup mounted inside the grow room, the co2 would naturally pool around the ceiling of the garden until it cools and falls slowly to the floor. If ducting the HydroGEN from outside the grow room over a short distance, for ex. through a wall in to the next room, it will not be necessary to use a fan at all. Since the co2 naturally rises it will continue through the ducting until it is released in to the garden.
Bozo,
If running over a long distance a 4" duct booster fan can be used, BUT YOU MUST NOT COVER THE VENT HOLES ON THE SIDE OF THE UNIT WITH ANYTHING!!! These vents are very important especially when using a fan. When they are covered you are forcing all the air drawn by your fan through the bottom of the unit and ultimately over the burner assembly, not a good idea. Leaving these vents uncovered would allow most of the air to be drawn in ABOVE the burner assembly. Your photos do not show that you have done this but in an earlier post you mention doing that...just for your own safety.
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