Wanna Ask The Old Farts A Question?

[IAMX]

Well if you are going to add side lighting you could go a bit bigger but realistically you never want to use your full hieght with fluoros, the reason being they lack penetration. With no additional lighting I'd flower now but if you are going to add side lighting then maybe you could go to two feet and then flower. If it were me I'd want to maximize the short range of energy they have and keep the plants LST'ed real low. Scrog would probably be okay too but personally I think those are better done with a HID.

Thanks for the reply! I have 4 seedlings ATM. When would you start the LST?
I want to flower at 12" and add side lights around a week into 12/12.

ANOTHER QUESTION:

If the temps are maintained betweent 73 f. - 85 f. and 27-33 humidity would you say these plants would have a pretty stress-less enviornment? In aim to get females.
Because I'd like to start a mother and clones if I get some females.
I could add 3' fluoros in that top shelf for the small clones and mothers.

 

[Transcendence]

Once again I seek knowledge from those who wear the crown of wisdom (aka grey headed old farts!)

I was wondering if it's worth keeping this mutant around? The main shoot is growing at a snails pace. But as you can see the side shoots are growing normally. If it turns out female, would it be worth cloning? Will it inherit that trait of not growing the main shoot? Or will the clones turn out normal if I just clone one of the side branches that is growing normally?

 

[HempKat]

Thanks for the reply! I have 4 seedlings ATM. When would you start the LST?
I want to flower at 12" and add side lights around a week into 12/12.

ANOTHER QUESTION:

If the temps are maintained betweent 73 f. - 85 f. and 27-33 humidity would you say these plants would have a pretty stress-less enviornment? In aim to get females.
Because I'd like to start a mother and clones if I get some females.
I could add 3' fluoros in that top shelf for the small clones and mothers.

I'm not real big on LST. Not that there is anything wrong with it but it's more work then is needed for my grow setup. My grow area is just lightly larger then yours 5'W x 8'L x 8'H but I have a 1000W HID so I can let my plants grow much bigger without suffering much because the 1000W penetrates so much better then fluoros. Anyway my understanding is once they get about a week of so beyond sprouting you can begin LST at anytime and that when you start and how much you do depends on your space and lighting and the results you hope to get. I would engourage you to keep seeking opinions until you've met someone more experienced with LST and/or fluoros then I.

Now for your mext question your temps range from near perfect to too hot and with a fluoro set up and you are hitting temps around 85 then you have a heating issue for sure, most likely due to a ventillation issue. If you indoors is an air conditioned building in the spring then you should not be running 85 with fluoros. I have a friend running a 400W HID under those conditions almost (his grow space is more open then yours) and he keeps his temps in the 70's he says. Ideally for marijuana grown indoors if your goal is stress free you want your lights on temps to be around 75 to 78 degrees F. Lights off you want it to be no less then 65 degrees F. Those temps pretty much hold true for the whole life of the plant too. Now the humidity you mentioned is near perfect for late flower, RH around 30 will really help encourage trich production. Triches or trichomes, in case you don't know are formed from the resin of the plant and contains the thc which is what we want. For the plant however trichomes serve to shield the plant, especially at the bud sites, the insulate buds from moisture loss during low humidity conditions common to outdoor harvest season (think fall when all the leaves are drying on trees). The triches due to their formation also help to act like a nice warm sweater which helps it to deal better with the cooler nights that are frequent in the fall. It's not uncommon in the fall to see 20 degree drops in temps from day to night, such changes can be hard on the flower. So in defense the plant has evolved trichomes, which also by the way triches help plants absorb UV radiation which tends to be higher in the regions the plants we grow today evolved from. In fact a trick in indoor growin is for during the last 3 weeks of flower try to have a 20 degree drop between lights on and lights off and try to get you lights off humidity at around 30% this will help encourage more trichome developement at the point the plant is most eager to produce it. See we look at it from the perspective of getting high. The plant knows nothing of that, just like a maple tree knows nothing of syrup. To these plants, their resins are their blood, it keeps life going in them. The cannabis plant has one goal when it's in flower, that goal is to get pollinated and make seeds and keep them safe until they are ready to go. So it pumps out flowers. Which by the way flowers are not the same as buds, buds are clusters of flowers upon flowers, a flower as a unit consists of a pear shaped sack, the calyx and two long slender hairs protruding from the calyx, aka pistils. The pistils are intended to catch the pollen in the air which causes a bio-chemical reation that is transmited down into the calyx thru the hair and this starts a seed to growing, each flower essentially secretes resin encasing itself and the surrounding area in an attempt to protect it long enough to fulfill it's goal of making a seed so the plant can procreate and live on. The drive is so strong that when growers are successful at keeping the area pollen free plants will sometimes hermi (turn she-male) and pollinate itself as a last resort. So if you think about it, the very condition we seek is itself stressful to the plant. We do it though because before it can grow seeds, if it does pollinate itself, we have usually harvested it. Also because the hermi part is a last resort, long before that a pollen free environment with prime growing conditions cause a plant to pump out more flowers to get more hairs out to the air and more resin to protect the increased amount of flowers. Now I said before that you want lights on to be 75 and lights off 65, but then I said for the last 3 weeks you want a 20 degree drop. To do that you should split the difference and let the lights on temps creep up to 80 and have the lights out temps drop to 60. You can even prop into the upper 50's and this will cause some purple coloration into your buds which many find appealing although I'm not sure why?

I kind of drifted of course there though, in veg you want your humidity higher. In veg the plant isn't thinging much about flowers yet beyond setting up the structure of the plant to better support flowers. During veg there is alot of stretching and new growth and cells dividing and such that a more humid environment is condusive and seems to help the plant. Basically it all boils down to this rule for me.

Veg:

Lights on 75 - 78 degrees F and RH at 55 - 60%

Lights off 65 - 68 degrees F and RH at 40 - 45%

Flower:

The same as veg basically until the last 3 weeks before the breeders recommended harvest date. At that point you want it like this:

Lights on 78 - 80 degrees F and RH at 40 - 45% (lower humidity is good too at this point because the dense bud formations are more susceptable to mold and mildew if the humidity is high)

Lights off 62 - 57 degrees F and RH at 25 to 30%

That's what I do anyway and it works good for me. The way you do that by the way is thru ventilation and cooling. Cooler air can't hold as much moisture and air that isn't allowed to settle in one space for too long doesn't help build humidity. In my set up I have 3 fans, one main exhaust fan, one fan that cools my light and a third one that I can turn on when I need cooler temps and/or low humidity. Now I don't mean regular fans, which I have one of those too to move the air around, I mean the inline blower type fans. I run a 1000W HID though, in your case it's possible to just use fans like you use to exhaust a bathroom, what they call fart fans.

 

[IAMX]

Well now I wont need any help till flowering!! Thanx a million, hempkat!

 

[HempKat]

Once again I seek knowledge from those who wear the crown of wisdom (aka grey headed old farts!)

I was wondering if it's worth keeping this mutant around? The main shoot is growing at a snails pace. But as you can see the side shoots are growing normally. If it turns out female, would it be worth cloning? Will it inherit that trait of not growing the main shoot? Or will the clones turn out normal if I just clone one of the side branches that is growing normally?

A clone should have all the growing characteristics of the plant it came from since really it is the plant it came from. So if the way that plant is growing is because of it's genetics, the clone should do exactly the same because it's operating under the same genetic code. What you have to be careful of though when trying to preserve a trait is to be sure it is a trait and not the result of an environmental factor. If it is and then that factor is changed or removed it may not continue to grow the same way.

As for whether of not it's worth keeping that's entirely up to you. I say it's impossible to tell if you haven't made it to a dried cured harvest and sampled it. I mean it could gorw in some way that's just perfect for your grow area but if it yields a harvest with a crappy buzz and/or not a substantial yield, then is it worth the time and energy to get to that point?

 

[HempKat]

Well now I wont need any help till flowering!! Thanx a million, hepkat!

Sorry, I just smoked a joint of C-99 and it's sativa qualities makes me quite chatty sometimes

 

[HempKat]

Well got to go work in the garden, but I'll check back later

 

[sugabear_II]

wiring a capacitor into a 150 watt hps

wiring a capacitor into a 150 watt hps

Ok some of us folks on the 150 club remembered an old OG FAQ about how small wattage HPS lamps such as the 150 often times don't have a capacitor and as a result draw considerably more amperage through the line than used (4.4 at startup vs. 2 at startup).

Since a single circuit in most houses is only 15 amps one could easily overload a circuit with 3~4 lamps depending upon what else was plugged in (fans,airpumps, floro's, etc.)

Well I won't go into the details of Fawlty Basils post (it's in the 150 club if interested) the solution he said was to wire a capacitor in parallel.

But we're all a little perplexed as to how that would look

Here's a nice easy to follow color coded wiring picture of a 150 without a capacitor



here's a wiring diagram, which I am unsure how to read, for a 150 with a capacitor



Now to show how the capacitor would be wired in the first easy to follow picture I'm thinking this is correct.




Could one of you old farts with some electrical knowledge weigh in on this ?

Thanks so much

-suga

 

[HempKat]

Ok some of us folks on the 150 club remembered an old OG FAQ about how small wattage HPS lamps such as the 150 often times don't have a capacitor and as a result draw considerably more amperage through the line than used (4.4 at startup vs. 2 at startup).

Since a single circuit in most houses is only 15 amps one could easily overload a circuit with 3~4 lamps depending upon what else was plugged in (fans,airpumps, floro's, etc.)

Well I won't go into the details of Fawlty Basils post (it's in the 150 club if interested) the solution he said was to wire a capacitor in parallel.

But we're all a little perplexed as to how that would look

Here's a nice easy to follow color coded wiring picture of a 150 without a capacitor



here's a wiring diagram, which I am unsure how to read, for a 150 with a capacitor



Now to show how the capacitor would be wired in the first easy to follow picture I'm thinking this is correct.




Could one of you old farts with some electrical knowledge weigh in on this ?

Thanks so much

-suga

Well if you look carefully at the wiring diagram the capacitor in that on one side is connected to where the blue wire from the ignitor connects into the ballast. on the opposite side it's connected to the hot side of the ballast where the voltage comes in. So based on that I'd say the capacitor needs to be between the black wire coming into the ballast and the blue wire. The way you show it, it looks like you have it wired in series and not in parallel.

The squiggly lines the capacitor is wire between in the schematic, that is the schematic symbol for a transformer, so it's showing the capacitor in parallel to the transformer itself. This means it will be open during half the cycle and shut the other half, since ac cycles between positive and negative.

 

[IAMX]

this thread kix ass

 

[Makavellian]

helllo again.. i have another question : how do you know your plant is getting overripe ? what are some signs to look out for etc. also, are trichomes that looks like they are "bent oveR" psychoactive?

 

[HempKat]

helllo again.. i have another question : how do you know your plant is getting overripe ? what are some signs to look out for etc. also, are trichomes that looks like they are "bent oveR" psychoactive?

Well it will get a darker appearence to it's frosting as more and more triches turn amber for one thing giving it kind of a toasted look. At the same time your plant should pretty much be dying off and if you managed to keep it from getting pollenated then it failed it's goal and is dying. This can cause some plants to hermie in a last ditch attempt to pollenate itself into another generation. So outwardly the pistils will be drying up and turning dark, the leaves will be discoloring and dropping off especially if you stopped giving nutes in an attempt to flush the plant. If it is going hermie on you, you should see odd whitish horn shaped growths protruding from your buds.

As for the position of the triches, they grow every which direction imaginable and are to small to isolate just the bent ones for a practical analysis of it's psychoactive properties. So I'd say their position has little if anything to do with their quality.

 

[Makavellian]

thanks hempkat

 

[Makavellian]

hello, i have another question. ive harvested some buds so far, but im letting a bunch of smaller buds continue growing. my question is : is this plant still dying? or will it continue growing like a new plant because ive exposed a bunch of green and previously-shaded foliage? thanks, props 2 you hk for creating this thread

 

[NG2k]

hey there HK
im just starting my first grow, http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=27700, and the bottom 2 leaves (not the cots) on both my plants have problems. One plant has just slightly yellowing tips, but this seems to be getting better, however the other plant is on its 4th node but its leaves are all really small and its margins are turning up from the petioles towards the tips. Also the bottom 2 leaves are turning brownish and dying. see photos, I have no idea what this is. Any ideas?
Thanks in advance
NG2k

 

[HempKat]

hello, i have another question. ive harvested some buds so far, but im letting a bunch of smaller buds continue growing. my question is : is this plant still dying? or will it continue growing like a new plant because ive exposed a bunch of green and previously-shaded foliage? thanks, props 2 you hk for creating this thread

Well I've done this a number of times and it is my understanding, and my observations support this, that if you keep the plant on 12/12 it will continue to die as it is at the end of it's cycle. That does not mean that the plant won't finish off the buds but it's not like you can just keep cutting off a few buds, then let it grow more and so on. Now there is a process called revegging a plant in qhich you can bring a plant back and basically start it over again but this is usually a long drawn out process and it might be easier to just start a new batch from seeds. Personally I'd only consider reveg if I desperately wanted to preserve a strain and had no seeds or clones to do so with.

 

[WAMEN]

Hey wud up man?

1st..the Insane Clone Posse iz doing an awsome job..

2nd...im not shure about what to do with a little plant that its grew from a bean that Ive lost during the seedling( due to stoned gardening)...and now it came out in a pot with another baby... I fixed em in a 2 liters pot...cause I don't feel like tryig to split them riskin what you know... am I wrong? its just that I feel sorry to kill one..and Its pretty late to divide 'em..
they 're 3 days of full sun bigger than this:


what you can you suggest to do?
thanx bro

 

[BigHerm]

Im having a problem. Im designing my grow room. The flowering chamber is going to be 31 3/8"W 39"D 75 1/4"tall. First off I plan on using a waterfarm and growing 6-8 plants:

1) Will 430w HPS be enough?
2) Im going to have a seperate vegetation cabiner, what should i grow in for easy transprtation to the water farm. I need something that will hold 8 -10 plants until they are ready to be put in the flowering cab.
3) How much light should this veg chamber use?
4) Tell me if anything is wrong with my diagram.(besides my drawing skills)

The Flowering Cab Design:


Thank you so much for your help!

 

[HempKat]

Hey wud up man?

1st..the Insane Clone Posse iz doing an awsome job..

2nd...im not shure about what to do with a little plant that its grew from a bean that Ive lost during the seedling( due to stoned gardening)...and now it came out in a pot with another baby... I fixed em in a 2 liters pot...cause I don't feel like tryig to split them riskin what you know... am I wrong? its just that I feel sorry to kill one..and Its pretty late to divide 'em..
they 're 3 days of full sun bigger than this:


what you can you suggest to do?
thanx bro

Okay but let me ask you this, what if it gets to a point where one turns out to be male and one female? Unless you want a seedy plant you would have to seperate them then. I mean if you aren't concerned overly about how it turns out you can probably safely grow them together but remember they'll need different care being two plants in one, more water, more soil, more nutes.

Now if you want to do the best you can then I say sacrifice one. You are right in saying that trying to seperate them would probably not work well. So I'd just cut the worse of the two off at soil level, preferably very early on before it developes too much in the way of roots. This allows the one to grow without competition having the pot to itself which is usually better in the long run.

 

[HempKat]

Im having a problem. Im designing my grow room. The flowering chamber is going to be 31 3/8"W 39"D 75 1/4"tall. First off I plan on using a waterfarm and growing 6-8 plants:

1) Will 430w HPS be enough?
2) Im going to have a seperate vegetation cabiner, what should i grow in for easy transprtation to the water farm. I need something that will hold 8 -10 plants until they are ready to be put in the flowering cab.
3) How much light should this veg chamber use?
4) Tell me if anything is wrong with my diagram.(besides my drawing skills)

The Flowering Cab Design:


Thank you so much for your help!

1) Yes, in a chamber that size 430W is the highest I'd go.
2) I'm not 100% sure what you are asking but as an Idea I've seen people rig up large rubbermaid bins like might be used as a storage bin or an ice chest using fluorosto veg plants but for 8-10 you'd probably need 2 or 3 large bins like that. Then again it all depends on who you are doing things. I figure 2 or 3 bins because if they'll be vegging 2 months they'll be a fair size by the time you can move them. If it was timed though that they only needed to hold the plants a couple of weeks then you could have them in cups and get 10 in one bin.
3) Again it depends on how you are doing them, personally with the way I like to grow for 10 plants vegging I would use at least 360W of fluoro. Thing is, the grow box you describe is not enough for 10 plants nor is 430W of HID. Unless you are growing SOG style. I grow 10 bush size plants under a 1000W HID and I need a space 5'x8'x8' to handle it.
4)The only notable thing I picked up on in your diagram as an issue is your vent placement. Heat rises and cool air falls. Due to this your intake vent should be low to the ground so it can pull in the coolest air possible. Likewise since heat rises your exhaust should be at the top preferably directly above the light so it can pull out the hottest air possible.