Wanna Ask The Old Farts A Question?
- Thread starter HempKat
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Whoa, it's been a while. Glad to see this thread is still running strong, and that HempKat is still helping everyone out 
What are your thoughts on horizontal vs vertical lighting?
Have you ever intentionally defoliated a plant? Apparently there's a bit of a bandwagon going on, people are defoliating to increase yield. To me it's backwards, but I'd like to hear what you old farts think.
What are your thoughts on horizontal vs vertical lighting?
Have you ever intentionally defoliated a plant? Apparently there's a bit of a bandwagon going on, people are defoliating to increase yield. To me it's backwards, but I'd like to hear what you old farts think.
Whoa, it's been a while. Glad to see this thread is still running strong, and that HempKat is still helping everyone out
What are your thoughts on horizontal vs vertical lighting?
Have you ever intentionally defoliated a plant? Apparently there's a bit of a bandwagon going on, people are defoliating to increase yield. To me it's backwards, but I'd like to hear what you old farts think.
I'm not sure what you mean by "people are defoliating to increase yield" If you mean they trim the plant up like is done for a Sea Of Green style of grow then yeah, it seems a little backwards but in that style you're keeping things fairly close to the light so you can get great results without a whole lot of leaves. If you're talking about something else then the bandwagon hasn't been by this way yet.
Horizontal vs Vertical? Both are fine approaches but if you're going to grow bigger then say 3 feet tall, vertical is the more efficient and practical way to go. If you're going to stay around 3 feet or less then horizontal is fine and will probably give you good results. Where vertical shines is when the size of the plant forces some bud sites out of the effective range of the light (due to the inverse squared rule). By going vertical you can allow your plants to get 5' or taller and still get good growth along the length of the plant because in the vertical position without the hood you hang the light down in the midst of the plants and you get good growth going in all directions from the light. When a light is hung horizontally you're only getting the benefit of the area below the light. This method is especially effective I hear, if you can set your vertically hung light with a cool tube.
One thing to be careful of though is to make sure your light supports that style of hanging before you go to the trouble of removing the hood and/or setting your grow up for a vertically hung light (in vertical you want plants more around your light then under it). Some lights, especially older or cheaper ones won't work in a vertical position.
mellow yellow
Member
Hello HK et al
Just a quicky....v low on bud, got a plant (68 days 12/12) been flushed for 5 days plan to chop in a week or so..
If i chop a branch (I topped the plant and has 4 big heads) how will this affect the plant will it shock it for days/weeks, prevent the last fattening up?
Basically if it has a big effect I will not do it and just buy some smoke, can`t get any decent smoke thats the problem.
Just a quicky....v low on bud, got a plant (68 days 12/12) been flushed for 5 days plan to chop in a week or so..
If i chop a branch (I topped the plant and has 4 big heads) how will this affect the plant will it shock it for days/weeks, prevent the last fattening up?
Basically if it has a big effect I will not do it and just buy some smoke, can`t get any decent smoke thats the problem.
Scottyboycx
Member
i chop main colas off my plants at harvest then leave the popcorn for a week or so longer to fatten up......not seen any stress or anything from doing this.
I'm not sure what you mean by "people are defoliating to increase yield" If you mean they trim the plant up like is done for a Sea Of Green style of grow then yeah, it seems a little backwards but in that style you're keeping things fairly close to the light so you can get great results without a whole lot of leaves. If you're talking about something else then the bandwagon hasn't been by this way yet.
A little confusing I know, this is just the latest thing I've been reading about. It's a current, and apparently popular trend though. I've always avoided defoliating my plants unless I absolutely had to, and I still do that.
The theme is 'defoliating increases yield' and that is apparently regardless of growing style...at least alot of them seem to be. So I wonder how something that seems detrimental could all of a sudden be considered a training technique. To me it seems very flawed, just wanted to know if I was the only one
I've never cut off anything early other then popcorn buds so I can't really say. It shouldn't effect it too much this late in the game but it'll definately stress the plant. It's probably not going to get much fatter either so I don't see it affecting that. It probably won't do this either but in theory if you removed a large main bud and the buds were still swelling, if anything the others should get bigger because the bud you removed is not there to use up resources leaving more for the other buds. Again though, unless that's actually a strain meant to go much longer at 68 plus days it's don'e all the real growing it's going to do, all it's doing at that point is rippening.
A little confusing I know, this is just the latest thing I've been reading about. It's a current, and apparently popular trend though. I've always avoided defoliating my plants unless I absolutely had to, and I still do that.
The theme is 'defoliating increases yield' and that is apparently regardless of growing style...at least alot of them seem to be. So I wonder how something that seems detrimental could all of a sudden be considered a training technique. To me it seems very flawed, just wanted to know if I was the only one
Well the feeling many folks have is that the more directly you can expose bud to light, the bigger the bud will get, which is true to a point. On the other hand leaves are the very engines that provide the buds with the starches and sugars and what not that combines with the nutrients to create the new growth a plant gets. So to me removing the leaves to get more growth means you're trying to force the plant to do more with less resources. So in general it just can't work.
Now in particular instances it can work, such as SoG style because you got the plants so close together that there's lots of competition for the light and lower leaves are going to be more of a drain to the plant then a benefit. In that instance though, the leaves you remove are so blocked from the light they'd die off on thier own anyway if you give them enough time.
To be honest I've never heard removing leaves as a general practice being promoted as a popular technique, so I can only guess what is being suggested and how it came to be a practice people are promoting. My guess would be that someone say it done in a SoG application, saw that the buds got bigger and just made the assumption that removing leaves in and of itself is what caused the growth when in fact there was alot more to it then that.
Personally though I think it's definately an unsound approach. Why in the hell is a plant going to waste time, energy and resources producing leaves if the plant would do better with less leaves? If you study plants and how everything works with them one of the first things you notice is they're very efficient in what they do. If a plant is putting out more leaves it's because it wants to get bigger, the light energy is there to make it happen, but the plant needs more leaves to harvest that energy.
Well said, that's my very problem with it. Thanks for the replies HempKat, this is one great thread
mellow yellow
Member
cheers boss
Just a quick question from a new grower.
I have been wondering, when the plant first starts setting leaves, they are 3 pronged, then later it makes 5 pronged... Ive seen shots of 7 pronged leaves. And my boyfriend claims there are 9 pronged as well, but only on plants that are really thriving.
What I am wondering is: How far does that number go up? 11, 13, 15?
I have been wondering, when the plant first starts setting leaves, they are 3 pronged, then later it makes 5 pronged... Ive seen shots of 7 pronged leaves. And my boyfriend claims there are 9 pronged as well, but only on plants that are really thriving.
What I am wondering is: How far does that number go up? 11, 13, 15?
13 leaves
13 leaves
i remember growing columbian gold seeds out in the seventys and there were huge plants with huge fan leaves with high number of fingers - unfortunately never had one flower in central illinois - at least before theives or dad found it but im pretty sure they had huge flowering period.
then again wally duck has a strain that only gets 3 leaves.... and after awhile in flower my white widow drops down to leaves of 1
13 leaves
i remember growing columbian gold seeds out in the seventys and there were huge plants with huge fan leaves with high number of fingers - unfortunately never had one flower in central illinois - at least before theives or dad found it but im pretty sure they had huge flowering period.
then again wally duck has a strain that only gets 3 leaves.... and after awhile in flower my white widow drops down to leaves of 1
The number of fingers on the leaves is somewhat strain specific, but they all show differing patterns depending on maturity and health, as well as the stage of growth.
The three basic stages are single finger leaf at sprout, progressing to a three finger leaf, and then matures to a five finger leaf. This takes place in most all cannabis.
The five finger leaf is a key to some things as well, such as when the first set of five finger leaves emerge, it is a sign that the plant has set in some roots and will soon not be able to nourish itself (seedlings essentially feed on the cotyledons that emerge first from the seed). The five finger leaf also will signal that a re-vegging plant is back to a normal vegetative pattern, but in some strains this goes to 7 fingers right away.
For the most part, anything past 7 fingers is usually strain dependent, or perhaps the stage of the plants life, or as as your bf stated, it's health and vigor.
I have had a plant that threw out 13 finger leaves as a seed plant, but it never did that again after it re-vegged.
7-13 fingers are common and not a whole lot more you can glean from them really.
The three basic stages are single finger leaf at sprout, progressing to a three finger leaf, and then matures to a five finger leaf. This takes place in most all cannabis.
The five finger leaf is a key to some things as well, such as when the first set of five finger leaves emerge, it is a sign that the plant has set in some roots and will soon not be able to nourish itself (seedlings essentially feed on the cotyledons that emerge first from the seed). The five finger leaf also will signal that a re-vegging plant is back to a normal vegetative pattern, but in some strains this goes to 7 fingers right away.
For the most part, anything past 7 fingers is usually strain dependent, or perhaps the stage of the plants life, or as as your bf stated, it's health and vigor.
I have had a plant that threw out 13 finger leaves as a seed plant, but it never did that again after it re-vegged.
7-13 fingers are common and not a whole lot more you can glean from them really.
I've seen 9 blade leaves and heard of 11 but I've never heard of anything higher then 11. As for what your boyfriend is saying, he's half right. The higher number of blades per leaf is a sign of maturity. Now a plant does need to be thriving to mature so that's where he was right but it's actually a sign of maturity. In the future when/if taking clones, keep that in mind, especially if you're wanting to flower the clones as soon as they root rather then vegging them for a while. Less mature clones will still flower but your yield will be better if you start with mature clones.
So, here is my question:
Could artificial light be just as good or even any better than the sunlight?More important: why?
I did my search but all I found was: "you can't beat the sun, man!" which I sure feel is right but why?
in advance!
Basically because the sun (by the time it reaches the earth) is much stronger then any artificial light we can realistically throw at it. What's really different though is that even though the sun's light has traveled millions of miles from it's source it's just as strong at 20 feet up in the air as it is at ground level. Sunlight is still subject to the same laws of energy such as the reverse squared rull that says every time you double the distance of the light from the source, the energy strength of that light becmes on 1/4 the strength it was at the closer point. The sunlight has traveled so far you'd have to go into space away from the sun for it to get significantly weaker. With the strongest realistic light (a 1000W HID) after you get about 5 feet from the bulb the lights pretty much too weak for good growth.
Also the sun has a more fuller spectrum of lightenergy then any bulb that I know of and it's that kind of energy that plants adapted to over millions of years so the sun compared to artificial light is like a good homecooked meal made from scratch compared to a McDonald's happy meal.
Finally the sun has UV radiation in it naturally and it is believed that the UV radiation enhances resin production because resin works like a sun screen to protect the plant from UV radiation. Some also believe that it activates a reaction in the trichome gland heads that makes the THC more potent. Whether this is true or not is unknown to the best of my knowledge but most people agree that a strain grown outdoors produces buds with a better high then that strain grown indoors. One can add UV radiation to thier grow with and added special light although personally I don't think it's worth the hassle and the increased risk of skin cancer.
That is correct, when I was talking of immature clones I mean if you take a clone of a mother that's really not quite ready and therefore immature. It'll still flower okay but with the less developed leafsets it won't gather light as efficiently and so growth won't be all it could be.
Also sometimes you can take a clone from a mature mother and it has difficulty rooting such that by the time it does the plant is in pretty rough shape. I've noticed in my experience that when that happens the clone kind of revegs and you get the one and three blade leaves at first even thought the mother had 5 or more blades per leaf. In that case I'd say the clone became less mature then the mother.
I
In~Plain~Site
Funny you should mention the WW with one leaf, I have one in my room I was trying to discern. I believe it's an 'accidental' hybrid that I made using NS's SW and a Sk strain I've been running.
Interesting...learn something every day.
