Vote YES or NO on Prop 19

[vta]

VTA most cannabis business are already paying their fair share of Sales Tax, Federal and State Income Tax, Unemployment insurance, payroll tax, state business tax, ect...

Taxes are already being paid.

Yes sir I know this. I was referring to underground commercial growers.

 

[GanjaAL]

Some of us are not against taxes... I support sales tax or a level tax accross the board. I do not agree with that sin tax. Also prop19 has some wonderful points and ideas but again it will not change that fact people will go to jail as usual as prop19 does not address at this time the main reason they are going to jail now.

Also the fact that we only have 14 states on board for mmj and to think rec use is the answer... I just do not see that getting through to the Bible belt state or the heavy conservitive states. It just will not happen. But mmj can and will win them over in time.

Prop 19 has the potential to ruin this if they see that rec use did not curb the black market or arrest rates and you will see these state clam up to even mmj laws.

 

[justalilrowdy]

Has government regulated anything and made it less expensive for the people?? Has that ever happened? This wont be our last chance and if it is then better to keep it the way it is now. Change is coming... lets make sure its in the right direction.
I'm all for paying taxes as it brings validation and legitimacy to the industry. We do that now. We do a 1099 for any grower who requests one and I encourage everyone to do that.

 

[Feb2006er]

FWIW the weed I have smoked with Richard Lee was harsh and grown without love. The medicine at GKG is top quality and is priced better than Bluesky. I don't want to see the top quality meds that GKG is able to obtain be lost due to this industrialization bill. There are strains that take an extremely long time and have very little yield. Those strains tend to have some effects that I do not get from commercial strains. The downside is that when the space restrictions are enacted those growers will have their space for personal, and won't have any surplus for patients like myself to acquire. The market will become very sparse for those types of strains, and the price will rise because of it. This bill will do nothing but hurt small boutique growers, take money from communities and give it to greedy monopolistic corporate entities. People will be busted and thrown in jail for medicating...just read the little clauses in the bill that pertain to how johnny law can screw patients.

 

[F_T_P!]

Yes sir I know this. I was referring to underground commercial growers.

They live deep in the sewers of LA.They are untouchable.LOL. Clown.

 

[JackTheGrower]

only reason I am voting yes for it is because of this

(c) No person shall be punished, fined, discriminated against, or be denied any right or privilege for lawfully engaging in any conduct permitted by this Act or authorized pursuant to Section 11301 of this Act. Provided however, that the existing right of an employer to address consumption that actually impairs job performance by an employee shall not be affected.

This means if you test positive you can and will be fired at all major employers. The Insurance companies offer discounts for a drug testing program.
They can save money on disability claims too if they have a drug policy and you get hurt on the job they save money on any settlement if you tested positive for Cannabis. They will present the issue that the injured was a contributor to their injury if not the cause.

This means that any business that wants more profits by saving on insurance costs will have a test positive get fired rule.

In effect this Initiative actually supports drug testing and drug dismissals because they cannot tell if you smoked 5 days ago or at lunch that day,.

So they have to fire everyone that tests positive.

So Tax2010 doesn't protect us on our jobs. It specifically allows for us to be fired.
They just made it look like it protects workers.

 

[GanjaAL]

Yup... people are not reading it like they keep telling us NO people too.

 

[Feb2006er]

I like the poll of in state residents thus far.

 

[vta]

I like the poll of in state residents thus far.

...ever hear of the Broadus Effect?

Pot Legalization Prop 19 Polls Are All Over The Map -- Why? The Broadus Effect

Of six polls released so far on Prop 19, the November ballot initiative that would legalize marijuana for adults 21 and older, three have the yeas winning easily, while three have it losing narrowly.

What gives? As usual, if you have a polling conundrum, Nate Silver is your man. And in this case, his hypothesis is fascinating.

Silver is the stat whiz who first created a formula for predicting -- with astounding accuracy -- the performance of baseball players. Then, under the pseudonym Poblano, he began analyzing polls to forecast the many outcomes of the long Democratic presidential primary campaign. Then he set up shop as fivethirtyeight.com, which has since been bought by The New York Times. He predicted with uncanny accuracy the 2008 election.

Anyway, Silver notes that three polls in which Prop 19 is winning are "robopolls," meaning they're automated -- you push a number on your phone to respond. In the three where Prop 19 is losing, the pollsters are actual humans asking the respondents questions.

Silver notices something else: Huge spreads in the numbers among African-Americans.

In the robopolls, blacks favor Prop 19 by 28 points or more. In the only human poll where they break out demographics, African-Americans are opposed by 12. There are large disparities among Latino voters, too.

The hypothesis: The automated polls give the respondent a more secure feeling of anonymity and no social stigma, so he feels free to voice his true opinion. (Silver also notes that it's possible the automated polls are having trouble getting a representative sample of African-Americans because they have a lower response rate to robopolls.)

But if indeed black voters are more honest with the robopolls, it would amount to a mirror of the Bradley effect.

The Bradley effect was the notion -- broadly speaking -- that people lie to pollsters and say what they think they want to hear. It refers to Tom Bradley losing the 1982 California governor's race even though he was leading in late polls. The idea is that white voters, out of some vague racial guilt, told pollsters they were voting for Bradley but didn't once in the safe confines of the voting booth.

Silver: Nevertheless, it's possible that we're seeing some sort of Bradley effect in reverse, which I've reluctantly dubbed the "Broadus Effect" after the given name of the rapper Snoop Dogg, himself a frequent consumer of cannabinoid-rich products.

So the idea here is that once voters are in the cozy confines of the ballot box and can register their choice in secret, they may feel free to say yea on Prop 19.

And with that, we have delightful new lingo for the Prop 19 battle: The Broadus Effect.

 

[FoxxyDoe]

It would take something like this to get my YES vote.
Example...

1 Remove permitting for massive large scale grows. Why do we need these? Take away from all the little guys? why?

2 Make the 5x5 an 8x5 with scalability for the amount of people and property size. (something realistic is fine, at least 20% size increase per person). Perhaps with a cap at some point.

3 Allow everyone to sell to co operative store fronts, taxes can be added at this point. (Price and quality could be regulated?)

4 Remove the transportation and carrying limits. (It should at least be increased from an ounce to at least a couple pounds.)


I'm not sure how medium scale commercial grow permitting and size should go but with some more thought there is most definitely a way to balance it out with the home growers. (Richard lee and Oakland are not looking for that balance.)

This system may still be exploitable but its better than the Lee setup.

 

[amannamedtruth]

I am a SoCal resident, registered voter, Vet and MMJ patient. I fallow the leader of leaders for the end of prohibition by Decriminalization and that man was/is Jack Herer who did not support Prop 19. He had seen it for what it is... taxation and nothing more.

The proof... Mr. Richard Lee's facility which will crank out a mega 60 pounds a day.

I am for the Decriminaliztion of our beloved plant and not the enslavement of it through taxation.

I do not knock Mr. Lee for what he is doing... just do not feed me a line of bull. Just tell it like it is.

You are completely wrong. How about you come out here to the midwest and see how much your medical defense will help you out of jail...Look, you people were probably complaining about 215 cause they didnt allow for dispensary, but then sb 420 came along after proper amount of cooling effect on the society at large.

All you medical growers will suffer no ill results from this, no small gardens, no amount limits, ITS SIMPLY GOING TO CUT YOUR PROFIT MARGINS, AND YOUR EXPORTS TO NON MEDICAL STATES WILL SUFFER AFTER THE NATION SLOWLY FOLLOWS. You are as bad as the police profiting from the caging of consumers. I sure as hell know that you don't hear about too many people getting arrested after allowing for the 18 year old at family dinner to have a glass of wine, and if you hang out with people that are that young, you need to find a new crown anyways.

Jeez, even large scale tomato growers pay taxes, whats the problem with contributing to society!? One reason the mainstream is unaccepting of us is because of the incorrect notion of our lack of contribution to community...what better way to show we help than by chipping in a little. Doesnt seem fair that the pepper farmer whose profit margins are CONSIDERABLY LOWER than a marijuana farmer have to pay taxes, and the ganja farm doesnt. Quite selfish. Doesn't hurt to step out of the ganja world for just a little bit.

Notice the amount of out of stater's that would vote yes, then consider yourself blessed.

Maybe if you wanted to be the one pumping out 60 pounds a day, you shouldve taken the initiative to legalize it. The bill is worded to appease the non ganja crowd, how is that hard to understand? Why don't you bring up the millions of dollars of Richard Lee's own money that he is putting into this initiative? You really think he wants it taxed, too. Its called politics, and a no tax bill will never, ever pass. People that don't smoke see this only as a moneymaker, and they live on this planet, as well.

Hows about you guys that are in Cali come setup some stealth grows in non-med states, thatll really help you make some cash, really take advantage of the prohibition caused monopoly. You Cali med. growers for the most part are convincing me that you are nothing but spoiled.

This means if you test positive you can and will be fired at all major employers. The Insurance companies offer discounts for a drug testing program.
They can save money on disability claims too if they have a drug policy and you get hurt on the job they save money on any settlement if you tested positive for Cannabis. They will present the issue that the injured was a contributor to their injury if not the cause.

This means that any business that wants more profits by saving on insurance costs will have a test positive get fired rule.

In effect this Initiative actually supports drug testing and drug dismissals because they cannot tell if you smoked 5 days ago or at lunch that day,.

So they have to fire everyone that tests positive.

So Tax2010 doesn't protect us on our jobs. It specifically allows for us to be fired.
They just made it look like it protects workers.

Dude, it says impairs. You're not impaired, you don't get tested.

You shouldn't be going to work impaired anyways.

VTA most cannabis business are already paying their fair share of Sales Tax, Federal and State Income Tax, Unemployment insurance, payroll tax, state business tax, ect...

Taxes are already being paid.

THEN WHY ARE YOU BITCHING ABOUT TAXES NOW!!!????

 

[mullray]

Aghhhhhh - here we go again. What I'm sick of hearing is Jack would have voted no. Jack and NORML have had their differences over the years; one of them being that Jack was against taxing cannabis. Look no offense to Jack but the man is dead. He can't speak anymore (perhaps he would have changed his opinion) and he sure can't vote. Either way if cannabis becomes a legitimate commodity it will and should be taxed. I sort of wish that people would stop exploiting his memory in order to try to sway voters.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

I am a SoCal resident, registered voter, Vet and MMJ patient. I fallow the leader of leaders for the end of prohibition by Decriminalization and that man was/is Jack Herer who did not support Prop 19. He had seen it for what it is... taxation and nothing more.

i KNEW jack personally. and i can tell you (like chris conrad and dan herer would tell you) that jack would have voted for 19 !!!!!! jack was always about furthering the movement. the only reason he came out against 19 was to try and get the california hemp and health iniative on the ballot. then he passed on. if he would have been alive to see his iniative not make he ballot and 19 did. he d be telling you all right now to pass 19. thats classic jack. and anyone who KNEW jack personally would have told you the same......

PS>>>decriminalization means you cant grow or produce, only possess and consume. why anyone would want such a stupid fucking thing like decrim is beyond my comprehension.... how can you have a legal commodity that is illegal to produce???? makes ZERO sense.

 

[Dödsknark]

I hate it when they do this...

I live in another country but FUCK them. FUCK them up the ass with a giant cactus for trying to take our herb and make it their cashmachine.

Then again, I guess it is some sort of progress on other fronts but damn... They do REALLY try.

Pardon my harsh language.

Good luck over there whichever way it goes. I just hope the tide keeps on turning...

The rest of the world is watching.

 

[iBogart]

Listen folks, this country was founded on a comprimise. Do you really think everyone is going to get everything they want out of this proposition the first time around? There'll be amendments. It may not be perfect for some, but it is a step in the right direction. Baby steps. Besides, those of you complaining about the taxation, personal grow limits, and age restricitions are nit-picking the finer points in my opinion.

Taxation - Of course, that's a selling point for cash strapped California and it's swing voters.

5x5 personal grow space - Who can argue that this isn't enough space for personal consumption? You want more? = Greed.

Age Restricitions - Again another selling point to all the "what about the childern" folks. Eventually consuming cannbis underage will be like consuming alcohol underage. They're not going to throw you in the slammer for it.

So stop worring about your greedy selves. Vote yes on 19. Think about the rest of america. You know ya'll californians already have the best of everything. Help the rest of the country and blaze the trail for cannabis legalization. Please help us! Vote Yes on 19!

 

[Grimr3efer]

Who woluld vote to keep it illegal. One the selfish snobs. Get your head out of your selfish ass and do it to help us all out. No bill will ever be perfect.

 

[GanjaAL]

Sorry but name calling will not further your cause. I am voting no. This prop gives all the power to the prohibitionist to do as they see fit and will not do anything to curb the incarceration rate as it stands now. I get so fired up when people insult us for voting no that it motivates me to influence others to vote no as well. Just for this outburst of insults my goal is to get 5 more this week to vote no. I am sorry but I do not agree with giving them the power to enslave us. As it is now... my neck of the woods has a ban. Also with the new leader of the dea... this bill will do more harm than good.

 

[subrob]

Sorry but name calling will not further your cause. I am voting no. This prop gives all the power to the prohibitionist to do as they see fit and will not do anything to curb the incarceration rate as it stands now. I get so fired up when people insult us for voting no that it motivates me to influence others to vote no as well. Just for this outburst of insults my goal is to get 5 more this week to vote no. I am sorry but I do not agree with giving them the power to enslave us. As it is now... my neck of the woods has a ban. Also with the new leader of the dea... this bill will do more harm than good.

never fuckin mind....i prob dont need to point out what everyone can plainly see......

 

[TruthOrLie]

I'm curious what your ethinicity is, your form of employment, and how big your garden is NOW - for all the no voters.

 

[amannamedtruth]

I'm curious what your ethinicity is, your form of employment, and how big your garden is NOW - for all the no voters.

Hey thats a good question, I'm sure that the population voting no PALES in comparison to those voting YES.