Vertical Vs Horizontal lighting

[DrFever]

i think that if you are really good at canopy management then horizontal or dished/v is the way to go.

that diagram about vert having 135% more growing space doesnt mention that the surface area of the canopy will diminish as the plant grows towards the light whearas a horizontal your canopy size stays the same.

also diffuse light from a reflector is better used and better penetrates the canopy because it doesnt come from a point source.

most vert growers would struggle to beat the gpw yields i achieve in horizontal scrog.

but at the end if the day what matters is that you find the method that works best for you and try to make the most of it in your situation.

VG

Nice answer like you said at the end of the day its what works for you
i found in my experience commercially speaking that horizontal is the way to go many growers will say vert
comercial growers will place some vertical lighting for shaded places don't get me wrong but most of there lighting is horizontal and its there for a reason
When doing scrog style grows its about even canopy and most grows thats what you want SOG etc

i will try a vert grow same set up as the one i just completed and see as well post my findings here for all to see
the one i just completed was 4 plant 4 pound final dry weight 2000 watt horizontal grow scrog

 

[187020]

Flat vegg is workin well

Flat vegg is workin well

 

[187020]

5 foot seven inch sours

5 foot seven inch sours

Courtesy of side lighting

 

[DrFever]

courtesy of horizontal grow 6 foot plants

 

[Anti]

Yeah! Nice to see you still find a use for your reflectors.

 

[KnifeWrench]

i believe in vert>horizontal but the vert section has gotten out of control as far as hyping vert over horizontal...... PLANT NUMBERS DICTATE YIELDS, 1GPW IS BABYSHITBABYSHITBABYSHIT..... youll watch the majority of those cats fail miserably cause they get caught up in ridiculous expectations.

the combination of high numbers, weak clones, and vert lighting is a recipe for disaster if you try to run before you can walk.

 

[TommyTwoColas]

i think that if you are really good at canopy management then horizontal or dished/v is the way to go.

that diagram about vert having 135% more growing space doesnt mention that the surface area of the canopy will diminish as the plant grows towards the light whearas a horizontal your canopy size stays the same.

also diffuse light from a reflector is better used and better penetrates the canopy because it doesnt come from a point source.

most vert growers would struggle to beat the gpw yields i achieve in horizontal scrog.

but at the end if the day what matters is that you find the method that works best for you and try to make the most of it in your situation.

VG

The same grower will yield more growing vertically vs horizontally, all else equal (IMHO). Of course everyone's setups/limiting factors are different, and horizontal is not a bad way to grow at all.

Although plants grow towards the light a smidge in a vertical setup, they still mainly grow up - the gravitropism of weed is stronger than the phototropism of weed.

Regarding point sources, I'd counter that the wasted light from the reflector (coupled with the hot spots inherent in using a reflector) overcome any benefit of using line source light v point source light. For me, I use stacked bulbs to achieve a line source light effect.

As (somewhat) of a sidebar, to me that's the greatest advantage of vert - all parts of all plants get virtually the same amount of light, whereas in a flat garden the tops of the center plants get too much light and the outside plants and bottom of the center plants get too little light.

I have seen and respect your yields, but I think it merits pointing out that there's an inverse relationship (IMHO) between the size of the wattage used and the yields.........another way to say it, it's easier to get to 1gpw using a 250W than using a 1000W (this is my humble opinion and I have nothing to back that up other than my personal experiences).

Anyhow, I fully agree that everyone needs to decide what is best for their particular setup, but I'd strongly encourage any new grower to grow vertically - you don't see a whole lot of people going back to horizontal after experiencing the advantages of vertical.

 

[TommyTwoColas]

i believe in vert>horizontal but the vert section has gotten out of control as far as hyping vert over horizontal...... PLANT NUMBERS DICTATE YIELDS, 1GPW IS BABYSHITBABYSHITBABYSHIT..... youll watch the majority of those cats fail miserably cause they get caught up in ridiculous expectations.

the combination of high numbers, weak clones, and vert lighting is a recipe for disaster if you try to run before you can walk.

Plant numbers do dictate yields (in terms of g/kWh used, not necessarily in the g/w metric that many use that doesn't take into consideration their veg time) and 1gpw is babyshit for a properly dialed vert setup.

1gpw is attainable for a properly dialed horizontal setup as well, but if there was a hypothetical where I had one run to hit 1gpw (with limited veg time), I'd have to go vert.

Happy growing with whatever you choose

 

[Anti]

i believe in vert>horizontal but the vert section has gotten out of control as far as hyping vert over horizontal...... PLANT NUMBERS DICTATE YIELDS, 1GPW IS BABYSHITBABYSHITBABYSHIT..... youll watch the majority of those cats fail miserably cause they get caught up in ridiculous expectations.

the combination of high numbers, weak clones, and vert lighting is a recipe for disaster if you try to run before you can walk.

Not all of us take ourselves that seriously.

My failures will be spectacular until I learn the lessons I need to learn. And anyone who comes after can learn from my errors. If everybody shared their failures honestly the way the people do in the vert section, we'd already all know so much more than we do.

When you're hanging out with your boys, you sometimes develop a lingo. There's a ton of respect and support in the ICMAG VERT CULT.

(Dude, don't tell 'em it's a cult... they'll knoooow, man.)

 

[KnifeWrench]

Plant numbers do dictate yields (in terms of g/kWh used, not necessarily in the g/w metric that many use that doesn't take into consideration their veg time) and 1gpw is babyshit for a properly dialed vert setup.

1gpw is attainable for a properly dialed horizontal setup as well, but if there was a hypothetical where I had one run to hit 1gpw (with limited veg time), I'd have to go vert.

Happy growing with whatever you choose

i agree with EVERYTHING you said... what i dont agree with is pushing this TEK(by screaming from the rooftops how a gpw is chump change) on growers who arent capable of producing big healthy clones(all the clones they need at once) and have yet to dial in their environment. when a reasonable(small) amount of plants with a decent veg aswell as training will be much more suitable for a noob.

i agree with the TEK but it's only for those who've entered hardmode

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I only get 0.75 grams per watt in my vert grows. That said I grow vert because it is easier for me than hor is. I can stand to do my trimming instead of bending over to trim. I don't have to reach over as far into my grow to trim as well. I basically do a vert scrog instead of a hor scrog. I can take one plant in and out of my set up with no problem.

I also don't have the high plant counts that some people do. My highest plant count for a 1000 watt bulb is 10 plants. This is new to me and I only did this because I had no plants ready for flower that would fill my screens. Normally I only grow 6 per 1000 watt.

You can talk about yield all you want to me I will stick with vert. It is so much easier to train and prune then is hor. I chose it because of the ease of growing, higher yields will come in time. Sorry if I only get about 25 oz per light. I am happy with the growth and I think I do alright with the yield I get. Personally I think that the light is better used in a good vert then in a good hor. I get good sized bud all the way up and down my plants not just at the tops.

I think some one who is new to both just need to get good at growing to get a good yield no matter the direction of their light source.

 

[TommyTwoColas]

i agree with EVERYTHING you said... what i dont agree with is pushing this TEK(by screaming from the rooftops how a gpw is chump change) on growers who arent capable of producing big healthy clones(all the clones they need at once) and have yet to dial in their environment. when a reasonable(small) amount of plants with a decent veg aswell as training will be much more suitable for a noob.

i agree with the TEK but it's only for those who've entered hardmode

It sounds to me as though you have a problem with the "pushing" of SOG methods (not necessarily vert SOG) on people in general, which I don't disagree with in the least (particularly for the novice grower).

IMO, it's the responsibility of the grower to know what they can and can't handle.........I've run 144 plant SOGs in a 4x4 tray, but I certainly wouldn't recommend that to a noob.

As Dirty Harry says, "a man's got to know his limitations".

 

[DrFever]

It sounds to me as though you have a problem with the "pushing" of SOG methods (not necessarily vert SOG) on people in general, which I don't disagree with in the least (particularly for the novice grower).

IMO, it's the responsibility of the grower to know what they can and can't handle.........I've run 144 plant SOGs in a 4x4 tray, but I certainly wouldn't recommend that to a noob.

As Dirty Harry says, "a man's got to know his limitations".

you have run 144 plants in 4 x 4 tray sog ??? what the hell
what from seed or what just curious
i think many people get confused about SOG Sea of green here is my SOG i did a while back 90 plants 6000 watts plants finished @ 6 foot height

 

[TommyTwoColas]

Plants were clones (took 294 clones and took the 142 best), and I lied about the number - it was 142 plants (4" square pots, but lost two plants because I had to leave room for the E&F fittings in my tray).

EDIT: Dr. Fever, that was under a 1K in a Magnum XXXL - yield was pretty shitty if memory serves, something in the area of a pound-ish (although I'd imagine I probably could've gotten 1.5 lbs. out of it if I didn't hate trimming so much). Literally spent a half hour TOTAL on that grow (after taking all those clones, of course). I have the worst ADD of any human being you've ever met.

These days I run vert SOGs in a PVC structure ("only" 90 plants).

 

[DrFever]

did you grow vertical ???? amd what was your final yield if you don't mind ??

 

[FlowerFarmer]

courtesy of horizontal grow 6 foot plants

I'm not seeing much talk about vegetative time in this thread. Those stalks are nice and your plants are huge.. but I'm sure they took a bit to veg.

Your talking about yields from a 4 plant 2000w horizontal setup. That is a monster scrog... with a lengthy veg time to train through those screens.

Me.. I'll stick to vertical w/ 1k lights. I've finally achieved the yields I want after nearly 10 years of horizontal growing. This personal experience to me cannot be discarded.

After nearly 10 years of gardening horizontally I turned on a completely newbie friend with 4k dropped vertical down into his coco circles. He beat my yields his very 1st grow. It was sort of depressing to say the least. Its dead simple and cost effective ta boot.

I'm not abandoning horizontal completely. I'm a junkie for medium-less flood and drain setups (tables). For remote growing application I cannot risk going vertical due to plant support and canopy management issues. In horizontal I can easily do a scrog in a way where I can get consistent chops..safely..easily..every time.

I love the cut and dry structural aspect of table growing. Its clean and I can turn crops over like clock work. But with vertical I can hit my desired yields with ease.

so... I do both.

 

[KnifeWrench]

It sounds to me as though you have a problem with the "pushing" of SOG methods (not necessarily vert SOG) on people in general, which I don't disagree with in the least (particularly for the novice grower).

IMO, it's the responsibility of the grower to know what they can and can't handle.........I've run 144 plant SOGs in a 4x4 tray, but I certainly wouldn't recommend that to a noob.

As Dirty Harry says, "a man's got to know his limitations".

i presented my contribution/argument in a shitty way... i was more so nitpicking the attitude and enthusiasm WE(i AM part of the vert family) throw out there that can be too much too soon for a LARGE majority of growers that havent hit their groove yet. i apologize for a misleading double talk-esque opening that's (disgustingly)similiar to how the liberal/conservative crowds attack each other(linking shit to other shit that isnt relevant to the DIRECT topic at hand aswell as throwing out hurtful words and negative energy to start the discussion on the wrong foot).

its just that their is SOOO much more(canopy management and KNOWING the plant you're working with) than just NUMBERS=YIELD... NUMBERS=YIELD is the icing on the cake to take it to the next level, ALOT of users are skipping a level without realizing it. once you take advantage of the extra surface area and have PERFECT canopy but are still looking to add more weight THEN increased plant numbers should be what you look into.

im not very good at communicating with people

 

[DrFever]

i vegged 40 days and flowered 48 so total 84 days from 3" clone this is like 4th week pic i believe

 

[nut]

i believe in vert>horizontal but the vert section has gotten out of control as far as hyping vert over horizontal...... PLANT NUMBERS DICTATE YIELDS, 1GPW IS BABYSHITBABYSHITBABYSHIT..... youll watch the majority of those cats fail miserably cause they get caught up in ridiculous expectations.

the combination of high numbers, weak clones, and vert lighting is a recipe for disaster if you try to run before you can walk.

^
This 100% real talk!

learn to before you try advanced methods and dont worry about what someone is yielding and in what method is being used.

Also dont forget lots of people lie yes people do exaggerate the GPW (gram per watt) its kind of like saying they have a 9 or 12 incher when in-fact its only 6 inches at the most.

take what people say with a pinch of weed

 

[supermanlives]

the way i see it .is my plants are gonna get the same light levels. i will also get maximum reflection.i am also running cooler. this run was just because i could . next run will be more serious.