MeanBean
Member
I Couldn't Agree More!What kinda strains you got?
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VerdantGreen's quarters - 205w LED Organic Mod. ScrOG
- Thread starter VerdantGreen
- Start date
I Couldn't Agree More!What kinda strains you got?
SupraSPL
Member
Hey VG nice results! .8g/w is not bad for a thai . How many weeks flowering? I have been trying to normalize gr/watt numbers to 8 weeks for better comparison, it really puts things into perspective. Your gr/watt numbers never cease to impress even with HPS lol.
I trust the 180w figure thanks to wize wizo putting it on the meter in his thread. 180w includes the fans and driver losses as I am sure you know. Since we are normally trying to compare our results against traditional HPS numbers we would get the most accurate numbers by subtracting those losses.
The wattage used by the fans can vary quite a bit. I don't even know if they are AC or DC but if they are DC there are AC-DC converter losses too, usually 40% on small converters. I usually just peg it at 3 watts per fan but it would be easy to find out with a multimeter (or a kill-a-watt if there is a AC-DC converter)
A good quality AC LED driver can achieve 90% efficiency if it is well matched to the load. These losses are similar to a good quality digital HPS ballast. So lets give HGL the benefit and call it 90%.
180w-12w for fans =168 * .9 = 151 watts dissipation. So 151 would be the most accurate when comparing against HID bulbs gr/watt figures (I assume you used HPS bulb dissipation in your earlier grows?)
All that said, we can also calculate a separate gr/watt/8 weeks number for overall system efficiency that includes ballasts, fans and AC. Once LED radiometric efficiency really gets going, that is where we will really see benefits over HID. That will also show benefits of climate and basement vs attic etc.
hey supra, the lemon thai was actually flowered for just over 8 weeks, and the powerplant and NL will be pretty much the same. the blueberry will be closer to 10 weeks - presuming i harvest them all in the next couple of days.
thanks for the info, personally i think i will keep to the total power usage of the unit, 180w, to calculate gpw - because whilst the fans in the led unit do increase air circulation in the cab, they dont remove the need for an extractor fan and also because i never used a cooled hood with my hps anyway as i didnt want the glass between lamp and plant
feel free to pick over my figures and present your own version of them though.
MB you make a good point. my 250 probably used more than 250w, but i always calculated the yield using the 250 number.
cheers
VG
thanks for the info, personally i think i will keep to the total power usage of the unit, 180w, to calculate gpw - because whilst the fans in the led unit do increase air circulation in the cab, they dont remove the need for an extractor fan and also because i never used a cooled hood with my hps anyway as i didnt want the glass between lamp and plant
feel free to pick over my figures and present your own version of them though.
MB you make a good point. my 250 probably used more than 250w, but i always calculated the yield using the 250 number.
cheers
VG
gotta spread the rep before giving it to VG again,
fantastic work bro, you're one of those guys whos getting the best yield out of his light 
cheers,
red.
fantastic work bro, you're one of those guys whos getting the best yield out of his light
cheers,
red.
SupraSPL
Member
I see your point VG and that crossed my mind as well. That particular lamp design relies on those fans to maintain the output and lumen maintenance. My point is more theoretical because of the ability for passive cooling the LEDs.
Including the LED driver losses on the other hand will skew your figures in favor of HID. You and MB are correct, a 250w HPS will draw ~275-300 watts due to the ballast so that is why it is preferable to subtract driver losses of the LED. Unfortunately we do not know how efficient these particular LED drivers are without testing so that can be a gray area. I have seen them range from 60%-90% efficiency. Since 90% is theoretically possible, I usually use that number to estimate dissipation watts. That matches up with good digital HPS ballasts so I think that comparison is reasonable.
Good call on finding a way to get along without the glass. Some figures state that glass only blocks 8-10% of the light but I think that is only edge-on and the losses are greater off angle.
Including the LED driver losses on the other hand will skew your figures in favor of HID. You and MB are correct, a 250w HPS will draw ~275-300 watts due to the ballast so that is why it is preferable to subtract driver losses of the LED. Unfortunately we do not know how efficient these particular LED drivers are without testing so that can be a gray area. I have seen them range from 60%-90% efficiency. Since 90% is theoretically possible, I usually use that number to estimate dissipation watts. That matches up with good digital HPS ballasts so I think that comparison is reasonable.
Good call on finding a way to get along without the glass. Some figures state that glass only blocks 8-10% of the light but I think that is only edge-on and the losses are greater off angle.
hey red! - thanks
supra - good points again
---
right, the deed is done, chopped the other three plants today.
all looked good, but the Power Plant looked the best of the bunch i think, in the words of the song - this one's fat like yer mother
and chopped - nugs are dense and rock hard - 60 days
the NL also looked good, chopped at 8 weeks
chopped
and the Bb came out ok, although it had about half the N guano of the NL in it's soil mix, i feel it was still slightly too much. im going to go back to my original soil mix too after this without any coco in it as the coco seems to make N more available and P less available
chopped
so the DC is spending a night alone in the cab. ive been spraying it religiously to try and kill the mite cycle and it will get sprayed again before the next round of plants go in - which i will show you tomorrow. final yields on the harvested plants will take a week or so...
cheers
VG
supra - good points again
---
right, the deed is done, chopped the other three plants today.
all looked good, but the Power Plant looked the best of the bunch i think, in the words of the song - this one's fat like yer mother
and chopped - nugs are dense and rock hard - 60 days
the NL also looked good, chopped at 8 weeks
chopped
and the Bb came out ok, although it had about half the N guano of the NL in it's soil mix, i feel it was still slightly too much. im going to go back to my original soil mix too after this without any coco in it as the coco seems to make N more available and P less available
chopped
so the DC is spending a night alone in the cab. ive been spraying it religiously to try and kill the mite cycle and it will get sprayed again before the next round of plants go in - which i will show you tomorrow. final yields on the harvested plants will take a week or so...
cheers
VG
WizeWizo - thanks! - nope got some new stuff - see below 
hazy - thanks mate and cheers for the power readings - 484w for a 400 is pretty high!
Blimey - yep you guessed it, couple of KC going in
Supra - the Power plant isnt that strong smelling or tasting really, its more about the speedy extrovert high. smell is kind of meaty.
---
right, so first things first - here is the Deep Chunk scrog attempt at 17 days and shaping up nicely
now the new additions, Kentish Creme - this is a Jamaican Bagseed strain that Elevator Man saved a clone of which produced a few S1's and i was kindly gifted some. it's supposed to be pretty amazing smoke, very dense nugs and highly resinous but not a big yielder. some people who have smoked just about everything going rate this above many elite clones, so i am lucky and happy to have it. others that have grown it said it was very tough to make it branch so i gave it some pretty hard training in veg and managed to get half a dozen growing tips - but they seem brittle and i broke one being careless. anyway, without further ado, here they are.
KC1
training after topping once
and with screen fitted
KC2, this is the one i broke a shoot on a while ago. this one also got scorched on my cfl veg light
and screen fitted
for the last quarter i am going to try a 4 plant sog, this is my own cross, Power Black which is Power Plant x Black Forrest. ive grown this out once already and it is stronger and more potent than the power plant but in a more trippy way. this time i am taking it to F2 so out of these 11 seedlings i will choose 9 that will be flowered after about 3 days veg. 4 females (if i get them) will be finished and a couple or three select males will be flowered in a jar of water, then i will mix pollen and make some F2 seeds with the females (just the lower buds). i also thought it would be interesting to see how sog will work with the LED and how big a top bud we can get
here are the seedlings in root trainers - which i usually use for beans etc but they are pretty compact and i dont have much space for a dozen seedlings. 9 will be repotted and sexed in the flowering cab on sunday
cheers
VG
hazy - thanks mate and cheers for the power readings - 484w for a 400 is pretty high!
Blimey - yep you guessed it, couple of KC going in
Supra - the Power plant isnt that strong smelling or tasting really, its more about the speedy extrovert high. smell is kind of meaty.
---
right, so first things first - here is the Deep Chunk scrog attempt at 17 days and shaping up nicely
now the new additions, Kentish Creme - this is a Jamaican Bagseed strain that Elevator Man saved a clone of which produced a few S1's and i was kindly gifted some. it's supposed to be pretty amazing smoke, very dense nugs and highly resinous but not a big yielder. some people who have smoked just about everything going rate this above many elite clones, so i am lucky and happy to have it. others that have grown it said it was very tough to make it branch so i gave it some pretty hard training in veg and managed to get half a dozen growing tips - but they seem brittle and i broke one being careless. anyway, without further ado, here they are.
KC1
training after topping once
and with screen fitted
KC2, this is the one i broke a shoot on a while ago. this one also got scorched on my cfl veg light
and screen fitted
for the last quarter i am going to try a 4 plant sog, this is my own cross, Power Black which is Power Plant x Black Forrest. ive grown this out once already and it is stronger and more potent than the power plant but in a more trippy way. this time i am taking it to F2 so out of these 11 seedlings i will choose 9 that will be flowered after about 3 days veg. 4 females (if i get them) will be finished and a couple or three select males will be flowered in a jar of water, then i will mix pollen and make some F2 seeds with the females (just the lower buds). i also thought it would be interesting to see how sog will work with the LED and how big a top bud we can get
here are the seedlings in root trainers - which i usually use for beans etc but they are pretty compact and i dont have much space for a dozen seedlings. 9 will be repotted and sexed in the flowering cab on sunday
cheers
VG
U
unthing
Congrats on nice harvest. The new round sounds very good, bit more exotic strains
thanks unthing - yep got some exotic/interesting stuff for this round. here are 9 power blacks potted up in 1.5litre pots and put into the cab for sexing. 4 females will be flowered in a quarter (if i get 4 or more lol) in 1 gallon pots. going with blimey's 3 day veg plan on these because last time they got way too tall after 2 weeks veg as mentioned above the males will be selected and used to make f2 seeds on the lower buds - a breeding project in a square foot - what a hack!
here is the cab with the 9 pots in a quarter. the two Kentish Creme are on the back row and the DC scrog in the front right. i made a little tray to stand the 9 pots on
lastly here is a pic of two herijuana seedlings i have - some seeds were kindly gifted to me as part of a trade with a friend in europe. i also took the pic to show a useful technique for repotting. if you are scared that the rootball wont hold together well, bury the plant complete with pot and pat the soil down as usual (as shown with the plant on the left. then carefully take the plant and pot out leaving the cast of the pot in the soil of the new pot. turn the plant upside down and remove the pot carefully, then in one confident flip/dunk you drop the rootball into the ready made hole that is just the right size. then it should look like the pot on the right
cheers
VG
as mentioned above the males will be selected and used to make f2 seeds on the lower buds - a breeding project in a square foot - what a hack! here is the cab with the 9 pots in a quarter. the two Kentish Creme are on the back row and the DC scrog in the front right. i made a little tray to stand the 9 pots on
lastly here is a pic of two herijuana seedlings i have - some seeds were kindly gifted to me as part of a trade with a friend in europe. i also took the pic to show a useful technique for repotting. if you are scared that the rootball wont hold together well, bury the plant complete with pot and pat the soil down as usual (as shown with the plant on the left. then carefully take the plant and pot out leaving the cast of the pot in the soil of the new pot. turn the plant upside down and remove the pot carefully, then in one confident flip/dunk you drop the rootball into the ready made hole that is just the right size. then it should look like the pot on the right
cheers
VG
MeanBean
Member
Look's fun! I am going to attempt a breeding project to. I got the dp Ultimate and dp Oasis. The Oasis throws hermies here n there no matter what, it even says so on their site, so I am hoping to get that pollen and hit my feminized dp ultimate with that.
i hope by mixing a 12 week sativa dominate strain with a 100% indica 8 week strain will give me some faster results and something better for the screen!!
Again thanks for the inspiration on the scrog!
i hope by mixing a 12 week sativa dominate strain with a 100% indica 8 week strain will give me some faster results and something better for the screen!!
Again thanks for the inspiration on the scrog!
hey MB breeding is great fun, rewarding and a whole new ball game. what you are trying to achieve sounds good but you might want to consider if using a plant that throws nanners is the right breeding stock to use - it may mean that the offspring do it even worse. the other great thing about breeding is that males are good! you have a use for them
VG
VG
MeanBean
Member
You got a good point V. See the Oasis only threw a few the first time but the second time I upped the nutes and i think it just stressed them cause I got even more nanners.
When I started this experiment I really didn't have a choice. I baked the seeds i was trying to pop
I figured, welp I only got some oasis seeds for now so I guess I am growing them, also I had an extra clone I made for the ultimate.
I was hoping that when I crossed the 2 I would be lucky enough to drop the nanner trait. Then if they were still there cross it to the ultimate again and have like a 75% -25% mix. Maybe by then the nanners would be gone haha.
Still your right and it could work out opposite of my hopes! I still haven't picked out a good strain yet so I'm stuck playin around! Having the male plants is def the way to go.
I got 2 upgrades I am working on for now. #1. better airflow #2. cooler water temps for veg cab, its above the flower chamber and is getting a lil hot now, gonna insulate to!!
see ya around bro!
When I started this experiment I really didn't have a choice. I baked the seeds i was trying to pop
I figured, welp I only got some oasis seeds for now so I guess I am growing them, also I had an extra clone I made for the ultimate. I was hoping that when I crossed the 2 I would be lucky enough to drop the nanner trait. Then if they were still there cross it to the ultimate again and have like a 75% -25% mix. Maybe by then the nanners would be gone haha.
Still your right and it could work out opposite of my hopes! I still haven't picked out a good strain yet so I'm stuck playin around! Having the male plants is def the way to go.
I got 2 upgrades I am working on for now. #1. better airflow #2. cooler water temps for veg cab, its above the flower chamber and is getting a lil hot now, gonna insulate to!!
see ya around bro!
all sounds good MB
right, here is a picture update - and i will have the final yields from the last round tomorrow - im waiting for a power meter to arrive so i can do a proper watt for watt comparison with my 250 hps.
here is the Deep Chunk - at 23 days. buding up nicely and we have trics forming. ill get a few better pics of this for next time.
here is Kentish Creme 1 about a week in and it's stretching and starting to form side branches
Kentish creme 2 - i snapped another tip off this, very strange phenomena where they snap like china or something. i hope this doesnt end up being a better smoke because i prefer the other one as it seems to have more bendy branches
the broken branch is just behind the big leaf on the bottom left. snapped clean off so i used it as a cutting
and the 9 Power Blacks at 1 week flower (after 3 days veg) coming on well.
cheers
VG
right, here is a picture update - and i will have the final yields from the last round tomorrow - im waiting for a power meter to arrive so i can do a proper watt for watt comparison with my 250 hps.
here is the Deep Chunk - at 23 days. buding up nicely and we have trics forming. ill get a few better pics of this for next time.
here is Kentish Creme 1 about a week in and it's stretching and starting to form side branches
Kentish creme 2 - i snapped another tip off this, very strange phenomena where they snap like china or something. i hope this doesnt end up being a better smoke because i prefer the other one as it seems to have more bendy branches
the broken branch is just behind the big leaf on the bottom left. snapped clean off so i used it as a cutting
and the 9 Power Blacks at 1 week flower (after 3 days veg) coming on well.
cheers
VG
Should be awsome turn out on this one VG, I think scrog or sog is best for the LEDS, I vegged mine out as typical for a bush grow, and the buds seem underdeveloped, So I think I got them a little to big, For best results using leds one should veg and scrog or do a quick veg sog style grow keep them sized down a bit so you get proper bud developement.
Or maybe mine are gonn fatten up nicely over the next 4 weeks and suprise me
Good Growing!
Or maybe mine are gonn fatten up nicely over the next 4 weeks and suprise me
Good Growing!
hey blaze thanks for stopping by, i agree that an 'intensive' method is better for LED's, i'm trying a little sog in one of my quarters this time so it'll be interesting to see how that goes. whilst i'm pretty confident that i could scrog pretty much anything, i have much less experience with sog - last time they got far too tall for the cab!
as for bud development, i think the 205 vs 400 was always going to be a tough call for the LED's, but when we consider that HID technology is pretty much maxed out and LED tech is just coming of age, then i guess they will keep getting better for a while to come.
VG.
as for bud development, i think the 205 vs 400 was always going to be a tough call for the LED's, but when we consider that HID technology is pretty much maxed out and LED tech is just coming of age, then i guess they will keep getting better for a while to come.
VG.
