Variation if S1 seeds?

[MadBuddhaAbuser]

Isn't this S1 variation how we got all the OG Kush cuts?

supposedly, yeah. I think the bubbas too.(i mean i think katsu is a 98 s1, or has been speculated as such. not sure though, hard to keep up these days)


and oh yeah, ALL the chem cuts (#4, D, etc) come from seeds in the same bag of bud.

 

[MadBuddhaAbuser]

Also a good point to remember is some traits are controlled by more than one gene.

 

[purp&kush]

excellent thread,

have wondered this my self.

 

[LouDog420]

This

Dominant genes whether hetero (Aa) or homo(AA), is what the plants will usually take on, sometimes a recessive gene(aa) will show. The variance in s1's are due to the plants dominate hetero genes(Aa). Out of 4 seeds if you have a dominate hetero gene, you will have 1 plant showing AA, 2 plants showing Aa, and 1 plant showing recessive aa. If you self a Dominate homo AA, all plants will show the AA.

and this

Also a good point to remember is some traits are controlled by more than one gene.

Selfed plants will most certainly show phenotype variation. Meduser and MBA bring up good points. Multiple genes can be responsible for a single trait as well as a single gene affecting multiple traits (in the case where a plant loses certain aromas and have no odor...) Basically, most of these genes are interacting with each other and all these interactions result in the plant we are seeing.

As an example, a single gene could be responsible for the creation of some protein that is necessary for terpene production (molecules that are associated with the smells and essential oils). A heterozygous plant for this gene (Aa) could then produce an S1 that is recessive and can't create that necessary protein and therefore is relatively or completely odor free as opposed to having the same odor as the parent, or even a slightly different odor.....

IMO it is inbreeding on an elevated level as now the plant is exactly identical to its pollen donor. Some great plants can definitely be found and created and its a very handy way to backup a line if no other options (males) are available. Definitely is a tribute to our lady that she can and will pollinate herself to pass on those genes.

Certain weaknesses can pop up which may have shown up in the parent, or can be completely the result of recessive and strange traits popping up. Whether it be hermie traits, a missing protein that prevents something like germination, a weakness to a certain fungus or disease, or spectacular resin production...

Proper testing can relieve these fears and worries though as with any cross, or at least provide the relevant information to those buying the beans.

 

[BlueGrassToker]

Typically an F1 of a cross will contain genes from two unrelated plants and typically an F1 will display a 1:3:1 ratio where the majority of plants will display a mixture of the two plants dominant traits.
It is at the F2 generation of the same cross that will start to display a larger swing in phenotype.

The S1 (self pollinated 1st gen) on the other hand does not contain genes from two unrelated plants, as does an F1. The selfing (S1) is more akin to an F2 than an F1 (in reality the S1 is an F2). It is in fact the second generation where related genetic maps are crossed. And as such the S1 will show more variation than a regular bred F1. HOWEVER the genetic maps used are nearly identical in the S1 so the variation is not as noticeable as it would be with an F2.
If the female used is homozygous the variation will be far less than if she is heterozygous.
Confused yet?

The selfing will also lack the hybrid vigor that a true F1 enjoys.

The reversal that uses two unrelated females can enjoy hybrid vigor and will also display phenotypes as an F1 would. The reversal (R1) using unrelated plants is in fact an F1, whereas the selfing (S1) is in fact an F2.
A reversal that uses one female for the mother, and her sister is forced for pollen, is in fact an F2. However the cross had a bit more genetic material to work with than the selfing and as a result can display a bit more diversity.

I fear I made things confusing....

 

[djingo]

the og chemdawg bagseeds s1 did produce a few different phenos (guess it was four).
friend has fem spg s1, the plants show slight variation in growth, not uniform like clones.

 

[marijuanamat]

Typically an F1 of a cross will contain genes from two unrelated plants and typically an F1 will display a 1:3:1 ratio where the majority of plants will display a mixture of the two plants dominant traits.
It is at the F2 generation of the same cross that will start to display a larger swing in phenotype.

The S1 (self pollinated 1st gen) on the other hand does not contain genes from two unrelated plants, as does an F1. The selfing (S1) is more akin to an F2 than an F1 (in reality the S1 is an F2). It is in fact the second generation where related genetic maps are crossed. And as such the S1 will show more variation than a regular bred F1. HOWEVER the genetic maps used are nearly identical in the S1 so the variation is not as noticeable as it would be with an F2.
If the female used is homozygous the variation will be far less than if she is heterozygous.
Confused yet?

The selfing will also lack the hybrid vigor that a true F1 enjoys.

The reversal that uses two unrelated females can enjoy hybrid vigor and will also display phenotypes as an F1 would. The reversal (R1) using unrelated plants is in fact an F1, whereas the selfing (S1) is in fact an F2.
A reversal that uses one female for the mother, and her sister is forced for pollen, is in fact an F2. However the cross had a bit more genetic material to work with than the selfing and as a result can display a bit more diversity.

I fear I made things confusing....

Spot on,if the mothers a F1 the seeds will display like a F2s if its from IBL then it should be more like the mother but IBLs don't breed true for all traits just some so there will still be some variation.