using colloidal silver on M/F Plants

[doctor.dank]

Question, I've never used colloidal silver to hermie a plant before. Trying to make feminized seeds.

Anyways, here is my question: if I have grown some male/female (non feminized) seeds and just put them into flowering but sex hasn't shown yet can I still start spraying them with colloidal silver? Even though I don't know if they are male or female yet? Will the female/male flowers still show as they normally would so I will be able to discard the males and just keep spraying the females until they hermie?

Or do I have to sex the plants first, then start spraying them? If so, will I have to revert them back to veg for a couple weeks (after killing the males) and then start flowering over again? Because I heard you have to start spraying the plants daily from the onset of flowering in order to hermie them.

Any input would be helpful. Thanks guys.

 

[Loc Dog]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=239154

 

[doctor.dank]

Thank you for the link, I have actually read that thread before. Doesn't 100% answer my question though, thats why I was looking for input.

 

[Darpa]

Question, I've never used colloidal silver to hermie a plant before. Trying to make feminized seeds.

Anyways, here is my question: if I have grown some male/female (non feminized) seeds and just put them into flowering but sex hasn't shown yet can I still start spraying them with colloidal silver? Even though I don't know if they are male or female yet? Will the female/male flowers still show as they normally would so I will be able to discard the males and just keep spraying the females until they hermie?

Or do I have to sex the plants first, then start spraying them? If so, will I have to revert them back to veg for a couple weeks (after killing the males) and then start flowering over again? Because I heard you have to start spraying the plants daily from the onset of flowering in order to hermie them.

Any input would be helpful. Thanks guys.

Hi Doctor.Dank!
I confirm that you won't have any problem identifying your reversed female since they will still grow bud structure form which pollen pod will emerge. Depending on the strain, you may have to help the pollen pods to get its way out by removing some of the bud structure around them.... It is impossible to mistake a reversed female with a male so don't worry.

Also, make sure you get the right molecular ratio between Silver Nitrate and Sodium Thiolsulfate. The amount of thiosulfate to be use for your stock solution of 0.1M will depend if you use the anhydride form or the pentahydrate.... (STS is prepared with a molar ratio between silver and thiosulfate of 1:4, respectively. Nearly all of the silver present in the solution is in the form of [Ag(S2O3)2]3-, the active complex for ethylene effect inhibition.)

If you need to know the exact ratio (w/w) for both form let me know because a lot of the ''recipe'' you will find online are simply wrong...

 

[Loc Dog]

From that link -

I will fill a spray bottle and start spraying a target gal 2 weeks before flower
Hit her once a day...you'll have a full blown male by the 2nd week of flower
with many strains and 3-4 weeks on the far end...


It's always best to set the target mom to be reversed into flower a good 2 weeks prior
to your other untreated mothers ,,,, You can harvest the pollen at your leisure as it
becomes available with tweezers and a petrie dish,,then brush it onto your mums .

I personally have always used feminized seeds (have not done this in six or 7 years).

So according to him, you should select target plants well ahead of flower (why would you want to reverse a large plant anyway) and put into flowering light. This process is not for a branch like some people do it, but the entire plant. Typically males do not flower for 3 to 5 months if I recall correctly. You would probably be reversing 1 month old plants. If you have pollen too soon, store it. I do not recall how, but quick google would let you know optimum method of storing pollen. According to him, if you have been under 12 hour light a week for 2 weeks, you are already too late.

 

[Loc Dog]

Hi Doctor.Dank!
I confirm that you won't have any problem identifying your reversed female since they will still grow bud structure form which pollen pod will emerge. Depending on the strain, you may have to help the pollen pods to get its way out by removing some of the bud structure around them.... It is impossible to mistake a reversed female with a male so don't worry.

Also, make sure you get the right molecular ratio between Silver Nitrate and Sodium Thiolsulfate. The amount of thiosulfate to be use for your stock solution of 0.1M will depend if you use the anhydride form or the pentahydrate.... (STS is prepared with a molar ratio between silver and thiosulfate of 1:4, respectively. Nearly all of the silver present in the solution is in the form of [Ag(S2O3)2]3-, the active complex for ethylene effect inhibition.)

If you need to know the exact ratio (w/w) for both form let me know because a lot of the ''recipe'' you will find online are simply wrong...

He is using colloidal silver, most likely off the shelf.

 

[Darpa]

My mistake, I should have read more carefully. However, I wonder why anybody would use colloidal silver when Silver Nitrate and Sodium Thiosulfate are fairly cheep and really easy to acquire...

 

[Loc Dog]

My mistake, I should have read more carefully. However, I wonder why anybody would use colloidal silver when Silver Nitrate and Sodium Thiosulfate are fairly cheep and really easy to acquire...

I have not done it since about 2009. Just ordered parts for new rig. The wire and power supply shipped were about $20.00. Would have been $15 if I had an old DC power supply laying around, and could make fresh CS for many years.

 

[Loc Dog]

My mistake, I should have read more carefully. However, I wonder why anybody would use colloidal silver when Silver Nitrate and Sodium Thiosulfate are fairly cheep and really easy to acquire...

I have not reversed plants in a long time, and have never tried to reverse a clone. How long after roots pop out of rockwool cube can it start being sprayed. I would imagine that it can be thrown into flowering light 2 weeks after spraying starts.

 

[Darpa]

I have not reversed plants in a long time, and have never tried to reverse a clone. How long after roots pop out of rockwool cube can it start being sprayed. I would imagine that it can be thrown into flowering light 2 weeks after spraying starts.

Hi Loc Dog,
I would presume that you would probably end up with some viable pollen if you start the reversal as soon as you take the cut from the mother plant. I have however never reversed clones within that time frame, but I did flower freshly cut clones without any roots development… I assume that it will work just fine, but the amount of pollen that you will get may be limited. I would personally let them grow for 2-3 weeks. It all depend of your needs. I usually collect hundreds of Eppendorf tube of pollen samples when I perform such procedure so it’s why I prefer to work with older/bigger plants.

Also, I never use Colloidal Silver but you don’t have to spay 2 weeks in advance of the 12-12 switch with STS. I spray 4 days before the switch and then at a ±4 days frequency…

 

[Loc Dog]

Hi Loc Dog,
I would presume that you would probably end up with some viable pollen if you start the reversal as soon as you take the cut from the mother plant. I have however never reversed clones within that time frame, but I did flower freshly cut clones without any roots development… I assume that it will work just fine, but the amount of pollen that you will get may be limited. I would personally let them grow for 2-3 weeks. It all depend of your needs. I usually collect hundreds of Eppendorf tube of pollen samples when I perform such procedure so it’s why I prefer to work with older/bigger plants.

Also, I never use Colloidal Silver but you don’t have to spay 2 weeks in advance of the 12-12 switch with STS. I spray 4 days before the switch and then at a ±4 days frequency…

With STS, do you get a full reversal, or just nanners? The point of the tech I use for CS, is that you get full reversal. It is very old, and never heard of STS back then.

 

[Darpa]

With STS, do you get a full reversal, or just nanners? The point of the tech I use for CS, is that you get full reversal. It is very old, and never heard of STS back then.

Hi Loc Dog, Initially, it would like to correct some information about CS since there is so much misinformation about this procedure. The methods describes online to produce CS are BS, from a chemical point of view, since electrolysis of 99.99% silver in distilled water won’t produce Colloidal Silver, but will produce a solution of ionic silver. The electrochemical synthesis of Colloidal Silver nanoparticle in aqueous electrolyte require the use of different stabilizing agent…

«Reetz and Helbig [11] reported for the first time the electrochemical synthesis of metallic nanoparticles involving tetraalkyl-ammonium salts as stabilizing agents. Using the same approach, Rodriguez–Sanchez et al. prepared silver nanoparticles in acetonitrile containing tetrabutyl-ammonium salts [12] and Yin et al. [13] discussed the role of poly (N-vinyl-2-pyrrolidone) (PVP) as a stabilizer for the obtained silver clusters. Their results showed that the rate of transfer of PVP-stabilized silver clusters from the cathodic vicinity to the bulk solution played an important role in preparation of the monodispersed nanoparticles. Usually PVP is mostly used as stabilizer agent, controlling the particles shape and size in electrochemical [14] and also in chemical [15,16] synthesis procedures. The formation of Ag nanocubes [17] and nanowires [18] have been reported, too. The addition of sodium lauryl sulfate (Na-LS) as costabilizer usually ensure the wrapping and electrostatic stability of the silver nanoparticles in solutions.»

With all respect, those who think that they will get colloidal silver from electrolysis of a silver piece of metal in an aqueous solution are probably the same that believe info commercial about miracle pill if the presenter is wearing a lab coat… That been said, silver ions will have an effect on ethylene systhesis....

The effects of silver on ethylene synthesis, which is responsible for sex reversal, is known from decade. However, I have to say that Silver ions obtained for silver metal electrolysis in distilled water, or what everyone else call CS, is just a week alternative of the STS method because the active principal chemical responsible for the sex reversal is [Ag(S2O3)2]3-, the active complex for ethylene effect inhibition.

With the so called CS or STS, the reversal success will depends of the concentration of the active chemical X time of exposition.

My intention wasn’t to bash against suggested CS synthesis tutorial but mostly to talk about the chemistry aspect of the procedure.

 

[Loc Dog]

Do you have a link to a guide on how to make it, preferably in milliliters. Found one using 5 to 1, but in grams.

Are they solids or solutions? I saw silver nitrate sticks. I do not want to buy the wrong things. is there a purity level, and what form, powder, crytals, liquid, etc.?

How long can it be stored?

 

[Darpa]

Do you have a link to a guide on how to make it, preferably in milliliters. Found one using 5 to 1, but in grams.

Are they solids or solutions? I saw silver nitrate sticks. I do not want to buy the wrong things. is there a purity level, and what form, powder, crytals, liquid, etc.?

How long can it be stored?

You buy the chemical in solid form. Sodium thiosulfate is use to remove chlorine from tap water and it could be found in pet store... Silver Nitrate is use in photography, and for basic chemical analysis (titration for salinity test of sea water from Cl concentration). You can find them easily on eBay or Amazon.

Here is the right protocole:

Protocol: Silver Thiosulfate – Plant Tissue Culture Protocol

Prepare a 0.1 M Sodium Thiosulfate (STS) stock solution by dissolving 1.58 g of Sodium Thiosulfate (Product No. S7026) into 100 ml of water. Prepare a 0.1 M Silver Nitrate stock solution by dissolving 1.7 g of Silver Nitrate (Product No. S7276) into 100 ml of water. Store the stock solutions in the dark until needed to prepare the STS.

In general, the STS is prepared with a molar ratio between silver and thiosulfate of 1:4, respectively. Nearly all of the silver present in the solution is in the form of [Ag(S2O3)2]3-, the active complex for ethylene effect inhibition.

Prepare a 0.02 M STS by slowly pouring 20 ml of 0.1 M silver nitrate stock solution into 80 ml of 0.1 M sodium thiosulfate stock solution. The STS can be stored in the refrigerator for up to a month. However, preparation of the STS just prior to use is recommended.

If you are using Sodium Thiosulfate pentahydrate: in step 1, Instead of dissolving 0,001 mole or 1.58 g of sodium thiosulfate anhydrous you should dissolve 2.48g of sodium thiosulfate pentahydrate.

I’ve done it several time, worked everytime.

 

[rod58]

interesting read ..now just a quick question and excuse my ignorance. i was setting myself up to fem some this season ,.i've bought online some cs 30ppm which i was going to spray with .its a dietary supplement .will this do the job ?
just a bit confused after reading and not fully understanding the above postings .

 

[Loc Dog]

interesting read ..now just a quick question and excuse my ignorance. i was setting myself up to fem some this season ,.i've bought online some cs 30ppm which i was going to spray with .its a dietary supplement .will this do the job ?
just a bit confused after reading and not fully understanding the above postings .

I have always followed the CS tech in my first post (which I have not done in about 8 years). It states that off the shelf CS is garbage, and might produce some nanners (hardly any pollen).

To make your own requires 99.9999 pure 12 gauge wire, a dc power supply, an air pump and air stone, plus mason jar with plastic cap. takes about 2 days to make. Every 2 hours wires need to be wiped down. Also need PPM meter.

Darpa's method requires 2 chemicals and can be made very quickly.

The CS does not store well, and lasts 30 days. The STS does also, but think if you keep the 2 solutions separate, can be stored long term, and mixed whenever needed.

I just bought the stuff to make CS, but will order the chemicals to make STS, for convenience. Also with that CS tech, plants need to be sprayed twice a day starting 2 weeks before flower. With STS, start right when switching to flowering light, twice a week. I would cover the medium it grows in, when spraying.

 

[rod58]

thanks for the clarification loc dog ..

 

[Loc Dog]

A little confused -

If you are using Sodium Thiosulfate pentahydrate: in step 1, Instead of dissolving 0,001 mole or 1.58 g of thiosulfate you should dissolve 2.48g of sodium thiosulfate heptahydrate.

Is it the pentahydrate or heptahydrate that you would need to use more of?

When searching on e-bay what do I look for, to make sure it is the better one?? I imagine the heptahydrate is the better one, but have not seen that for sale.

Is there a disadvantage to using pentahydrate, except needing to use more?? That is all I can find.

 

[Darpa]

A little confused -

If you are using Sodium Thiosulfate pentahydrate: in step 1, Instead of dissolving 0,001 mole or 1.58 g of thiosulfate you should dissolve 2.48g of sodium thiosulfate heptahydrate.

Is it the pentahydrate or heptahydrate that you would need to use more of?

When searching on e-bay what do I look for, to make sure it is the better one?? I imagine the heptahydrate is the better one, but have not seen that for sale.

Is there a disadvantage to using pentahydrate, except needing to use more?? That is all I can find.

Sodium Thiosulfate (Na2O3S2) is a crystalline salt that can be found only in two different solid form: Anhydrous and hydrated. Sodium Thiosulfate pentahydrate is the most frequent chemical sold for commercial purpose, while the anhydrous form is mostly used for specific application in chemistry. There is no such thing as Sodium Thiosulfate heptahydrate. (I made a mistake in my previous post, sorry for the confusion... I will correct that!)

Sodium thiosulfate anhydrous (Na2O3S2) is a hygroscopic salt, that mean that it attract water. The sodium thiosulfate pentahydrate is just an hydrated form of thiosulfate since it is associated with 5 molecule of water: Na2O3S2-5H2O. If you get the anhydrous form and let the bottle open for a while, it will turn into the pentahydrate form because it will bind with water molecule naturally present in air.

That been said, both chemical are just as effective. But you will probably pay less for the pentahydrate form. The only reason why you should add more of the pentahydrate compare to the anhydrous is because it contain water molecule that are binded to the main molecule…