your right, i mean why are ppl selling weed when they can be giving it away for free....
Use 2000w to produce 4000w....
- Thread starter Thread starter joe fresh
- Start date Start date
your right, i mean why are ppl selling weed when they can be giving it away for free....
That's missing the point, joe.
It costs money (and requires energy) to mine coal, uranium, etc. It costs money (and requires energy) to process these things to use them as fuel. It costs money (and requires energy) to transport these things to the site where electricity is being produced.
If you could do all of that with a machine (even an incredibly expensive machine) you would not bother with the coal, uranium, etc.
It doesn't mean you'd have to pass this cost saving/energy producing advantage on to the end user. You could still make your profit. (In fact, you'd make astronomically more because you wouldn't be buying, refining and trucking fuels.)
The fact that they aren't using it in this way should be all the proof anyone needs that it doesn't work (or at least doesn't work as described by "that guy at the hydro store.")
Just for fun I did some stoney math.....
1 machine uses 2000w and outputs 4000w. (1 machine total)
1 machine outputs 4000w into 2 machines (3 machines total)
2 machines output 4000w each into 2 machines each (7 machines total)
4 machines output 4000w each into 2 machines each (15 machines total)
8 machines output 4000w each into 2 machines each (31 machines total)
16 machines output 4000w each into 2 machines each (63 machines total)
32 machines output 4000w each into 2 machines each (127 machines total)
64 machines output 4000w each into 2 machines each (255 machines total)
128 machines output 4000w each into 2 machines each (511 machines total)
256 machines output 4000w each = 1,024,000 watts per hour
So using this idea, you could build 511 of these machines and turn 2,000 watts per hour into 1,024,000 watts per hour (at same amperage).
At $0.12 per killowatt hour (the US national average in 2011), this collection of devices would cost you $0.24 per hour to run and would generate $122,880.00 worth of electricity per hour.
Even at a cost of $14,000 per unit ($7,154,000 for 511 of them) you would make your money back in 58.22 hours (2.42 days) and every day thereafter you would earn $2,949,114.24
Spend 7 million and earn $1,069,274,800 (1.069 billion) your first year and $1,076,428,800 (1.076 billion) every year thereafter.
(First year earnings take your expenses building/buying the units into account.)
1 machine uses 2000w and outputs 4000w. (1 machine total)
1 machine outputs 4000w into 2 machines (3 machines total)
2 machines output 4000w each into 2 machines each (7 machines total)
4 machines output 4000w each into 2 machines each (15 machines total)
8 machines output 4000w each into 2 machines each (31 machines total)
16 machines output 4000w each into 2 machines each (63 machines total)
32 machines output 4000w each into 2 machines each (127 machines total)
64 machines output 4000w each into 2 machines each (255 machines total)
128 machines output 4000w each into 2 machines each (511 machines total)
256 machines output 4000w each = 1,024,000 watts per hour
So using this idea, you could build 511 of these machines and turn 2,000 watts per hour into 1,024,000 watts per hour (at same amperage).
At $0.12 per killowatt hour (the US national average in 2011), this collection of devices would cost you $0.24 per hour to run and would generate $122,880.00 worth of electricity per hour.
Even at a cost of $14,000 per unit ($7,154,000 for 511 of them) you would make your money back in 58.22 hours (2.42 days) and every day thereafter you would earn $2,949,114.24
Spend 7 million and earn $1,069,274,800 (1.069 billion) your first year and $1,076,428,800 (1.076 billion) every year thereafter.
(First year earnings take your expenses building/buying the units into account.)
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your 100% right, and under what you say, because the up front cost of this "so called" machine, then its not "free electricity" because you had to pay up front for the machine.
so that means that even if they create a car that runs forever 100% never have to charge or put fuel...but they sell it for 100k....because of the upfront costs to you it is not free energy??
and like i said about page 6
its most likely one of these, after doing some research and looking though pics, it looks alot like this, but more horizontal and less tall....this is the closest this i have found that looks like it.... except its more horizontal and less high
http://www.electric-energy-today.net/
joe fresh,
last unit you are mentioning is just a system with batteries and inverter. Basically, you charge the battery with a 2000w charger for 12h; then you release 2000W from the battery and 2000W from the grid, which makes 4000w to your lamps for 12h.
You will still pay and use as much electricity as with 4000w, actually even more because you will use some more power to compensate the losses in the battery/inverter system
last unit you are mentioning is just a system with batteries and inverter. Basically, you charge the battery with a 2000w charger for 12h; then you release 2000W from the battery and 2000W from the grid, which makes 4000w to your lamps for 12h.
You will still pay and use as much electricity as with 4000w, actually even more because you will use some more power to compensate the losses in the battery/inverter system
No, I'd say that a car that runs forever without ever having to be refueled qualifies as free energy under the definition in the original posting.
You have one?
Power is a unit that is internationally measured in Kilowatts. A 1 horsepower motor is 746 watts, or 3/4 a kilowatt.
The way a motor uses electricity is not 100% efficient because of the way the magnets react and cyclic motion of the motor. Motors have efficiency and power factor ratings in the 80% range, typically.
Things that just make heat, without motion is called a resistive load. They are much more efficient and predictable. Not much can happen mechanically to effect the motion, or physical resistance in a purely resistive electrical load.
Gas Turbines are not energy efficient. A small gas turbine can use 50 gallons of diesel fuel per minute. Gas turbines are used where high rpm is required or small physical size/weight is a primary design specification. Gas turbines compress gas (like oxygen) and then that compressed gas is heated and expands. That rapid expansion is like an explosion and blows through the turbine blades to produce cyclic energy. If you look at jet airplanes you get the idea of the thrust they create. Some times generators are gas turbine, but high efficiency is the not the reason.
You cannot increase a given amount of power from any source.
A transformer can multiply the input voltage, but the power remains the same. A 100 kw transformer at 100 volts is still the same kw at 10,000 volts. There is a drop in the amps. And in fact there are loses in the transformer so you really lose by increasing the voltage.
In case anyone ask, my primary field of study was English USC and Art in Colombia.
The way a motor uses electricity is not 100% efficient because of the way the magnets react and cyclic motion of the motor. Motors have efficiency and power factor ratings in the 80% range, typically.
Things that just make heat, without motion is called a resistive load. They are much more efficient and predictable. Not much can happen mechanically to effect the motion, or physical resistance in a purely resistive electrical load.
Gas Turbines are not energy efficient. A small gas turbine can use 50 gallons of diesel fuel per minute. Gas turbines are used where high rpm is required or small physical size/weight is a primary design specification. Gas turbines compress gas (like oxygen) and then that compressed gas is heated and expands. That rapid expansion is like an explosion and blows through the turbine blades to produce cyclic energy. If you look at jet airplanes you get the idea of the thrust they create. Some times generators are gas turbine, but high efficiency is the not the reason.
You cannot increase a given amount of power from any source.
A transformer can multiply the input voltage, but the power remains the same. A 100 kw transformer at 100 volts is still the same kw at 10,000 volts. There is a drop in the amps. And in fact there are loses in the transformer so you really lose by increasing the voltage.
In case anyone ask, my primary field of study was English USC and Art in Colombia.
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If it's one of those, wouldn't it be a whole lot cheaper, simpler, better to run two (smaller) 2000w rooms on a flip flop rather than using a $14,000 inverter to run one (bigger) 4000w room 12 hours a day? They both pull a steady 48kw hours a day, right? (ignoring whatever losses incurred by the inverter/battery combo.)
Is there any advantage to this? Flip flop relays can be had for under $100.
(Just curious if anybody knows.)
then why do you keep brining up the fact that "energy is not free because It costs money (and requires energy) to mine coal, uranium, etc. It costs money (and requires energy) to process these things to use them as fuel. It costs money (and requires energy) to transport these things to the site where electricity is being produced."
this is where you are correct, but fail to see where i am comming from
"But by the specialized terms, wind, solar, thermal or fuel based technologies are not FREE energy because energy is being converted from one form (wind, solar, steam turbine, internal combustion) to another (electricity, motion, etc.) and in the creation of the primary goal (electricity or turning a piston or shaft) there are also secondary effects that are created (heat, tension, pressure, vibration, etc.) that detract from the efficiency of your engine. (In layman's terms: Some of your energy gets spent in the conversion, resulting in a net-loss of energy each time it changes forms. Because you have to keep inputting energy into such a system, it isn't free. "
this i understand and agree 100% with you, you can not make electricity out of nothing. you must use water, air, magnets, metals...ect to convert into electricity...
in the last few posts i was talking about tapping in to th aether energy source and converting that into electricity...
our earth spins constantly because of magnetic fields, and the metals our earth is made of, the reaction between the 2 make the earth spin constantly in the same direction....this is ENERGY, this theory can be applied to electricity.
but like i was saying it is just a theory, but a verygood and interesting one that warrants more research.
if you were to spend more time looking intoo the subject rather than just posting "its impossible it cant work" based on what we ALREADY know, rather than what we can LEARN.
i understand that the likely of the machine in the shop working like i said in the frist post, is very low, next to none...its most likely one of those like i posted in the pic a few posts above.
but the conversation thats going on now is more about the possibility of converting "other sources" of energy into electricity. alot of these "free energy machines" that are made(not all alike many diff concepts) do have some sort of possibility that they are on the right path, but without continual research and testing it will not go further.
i urge you to watch a few documentrys i posted and read into some documents about this subject. then maybe we can be on the same page.
research Troy Reed, John Hutchinson, and Denis Lee
Denis Lees has a very interesting energy producing(one among many of his) here is his heat pump concept http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31HoQ4rGdBc
the only advantage i see is that if you are growing in the middle on nowhere in burried containers or something, and want to be off grid, would be to use one of those in combination with solar/wind chargers that the company sells also...that company claims they can get your whole house completly off the grid with one of those and a charger(solar or wind)
Edit.....just so everyone may know...i am not arguing nor trying to flame anyone, i am simply debating my point of views with others, i enjoy the conversation, its more of an "intelligent conversation" that intrigues me...no hard feelings to anyone who may take my posts as being angry or arguing with anyone...its called debating
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Well, I bring it up in the specific discussion of this device. If you can buy enough of these devices (and they work as originally proposed) then you can begin to generate basically limitless "free" energy. And I am merely pointing out that if it were currently possible to do so, we would not find this technology in the hydro shops before we found it in industrial/commercial power generation.
Therefore it isnt' likely to exist.
Look at the numbers from my earlier post (you might of missed it because you replied while i was editing it):
I am saying nothing against the idea of harnessing a potential energy source that we are currently ignorant of. Every example of such a technology that I have seen thus far has been very credulous indeed.
I am specifically speaking against the idea of the specific machine in that specific hydro shop and using these other things as examples of why THAT ONE MACHINE is impossible, as described in the OP.
But if you had an off-grid system that was capable of generating sufficient power to run a 2000w grow 24 hours a day (2000w while lights on and 2000w into the inverter with lights off) then you could do the same thing with two 2000w flowering rooms that each run 12 hours a day on a flip flop relay) The same 2000w per hour x 24 hours would apply.
ya well lets just say that my "faith" in it isnt too high, but i still want pics and all, id like to see what others think of this machine that is being sold in the hydro shop, i mean when ever i go to the hydro shop its like a kid in the store, lol, if i see a new nute brand or new products i usually sit there and examine it thoroughly, i didn have time last week, but friday i will take pics and get a better description that way we can all know what it is and whats its best purpose(im pretty curious my self)
S
stratmandu
That's funny they call it a "Deep Cycle Battery Powered Generator" but that is just not true. It's a battery back-up with an Inverter and a panel. Being in the fishing industry I can tell you how long that inverter is going to keep running with no input voltage... Ie. battery charger.
This bring me to another point about 'Free Energy'. Why do proponents always obfuscate this issue by using the wrong terms to describe things. And just plain make things up out of thin air, when it suits them?
I would be the first to embrace a cheap alternative source of energy, like say a home Fusion generator, or better solar (With a breakthrough) but until then it's hard to support what seems to me to be pipe dreams.
A
astra007
fish finder
fish finder
example: this was patented and sold provincially offshore 10 years before it was commercially marketed across canada. you have to start somewhere and the fishermen laughed at an idea that you could find fish before they knew you were coming.
enough said; we will see.
fish finder
example: this was patented and sold provincially offshore 10 years before it was commercially marketed across canada. you have to start somewhere and the fishermen laughed at an idea that you could find fish before they knew you were coming.
enough said; we will see.
A
astra007
COMPANIES
COMPANIES
Proenergie:Energy Consulting Conservation Engineers; Chicoutimi Que
Pro Energie: Batteries Expects; Deauville QUE
COMPANIES
Proenergie:Energy Consulting Conservation Engineers; Chicoutimi Que
Pro Energie: Batteries Expects; Deauville QUE
Firstly, the device is not possible, period. There is no room for debate on this one guys. It might be an inverter and batteries, Like a fancy version of the one under your computer desk that makes sure you can save your paper if the power goes out. Otherwise, it's a piece of highly specialized equipment meant to reduce power draw in industrial applications, mostly for motors. They use complex circuity, monitoring, capicitors, and inverters to economize the power a facility draws, and optimize draw according to market price of power in some instances.
It DOES NOT turn 2000W into 4000W.
Secondly, the earth has a magnetic field because it spins, not the other way around.
Also, we do have a technology that uses magnetic forces to generate power. It's called a generator. Or an electric motor.
It DOES NOT turn 2000W into 4000W.
Secondly, the earth has a magnetic field because it spins, not the other way around.
Also, we do have a technology that uses magnetic forces to generate power. It's called a generator. Or an electric motor.
Well, your wrong there. The Idea of using a transducer to
produce sound pulses(pings), reflect off of things, and be picked
back up by the transducer, has been around since 1913.
Fisherman never 'laughed at the idea' as many of them served in the wars and knew all about sonar and echo-sounders.
The problem was they were just too damn big and expensive to put on anything other than a huge fishing vessel.
Starting in the late 50's early 60's companies such as Raymarine, Furuno, Westmar and the like started producing smaller less expensive models and thats when mainstream fishermen started using them.
Really, you should do a little research before talking about things you don't know.
A
astra007
actually this was quoted right out of fishingBC magazine and yes your speaking of sonar and radar. in the deep dark ocean it was used but not on the inland lakes until much later. the quote was about old school "tickel" fishing, carp spearing with tridents and net usage of the 50's to the 70's. the modernation of tech gear to revolutionize inland fishing. maybe a bad example but maybe you should do some research yourself.
both companies had no website but did have phone numbers and i found them using google; of registered companies of quebec, CANADA.
both companies had no website but did have phone numbers and i found them using google; of registered companies of quebec, CANADA.
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