Urgent Help Needed! Pro-Mix BX grow - 2400W

[RSA]

Started a thread awhile back, but it fizzled and I really didn't get much input.

I started my growing experience a few years back. Originally ran Canna Coco and FFOF, had some good results even using straight tap water and FloraNova nutrients.

Unfortunately due to cost, Canna Coco is not available for me any longer. Closest hydro shop that carries it is round-trip 250 miles. Shipping is $50-60 per bag for UPS ground from 99.9% of online retailers. I could spend $60 in gas to drive there to pick it up, but in the idea of saving money, I skipped out on going coco/hydro and am going to stick with PRO-MIX BX.

A lot of people have said they use PM-BX and have amazing grows. Not many people have issues with that as it is a 'blank' medium essentially and you can build up your own preferred nutrient profile as opposed to FFOF which already has many amendments.

Here's where I'm at. Last few grows (PM-BX w/FFOF) have turned out unsuccessful. I usually started the seeds out in FF Light Warrior, transplanted into a 50/50 mix of PM-BX and FFOF. TONS of bugs, what looked like fungus gnats, and the plants looked like GARBAGE compared to my Canna Coco grows. I usually use city tap water which is around a straight ph 7.

Here are my questions, and if you can help please note which question you are referring to (denote by #)

#1: Is starting seeds out in straight Pro-Mix BX optimal? Should I amend with perlite or anything to start them out? I want healthly, green seedlings. I've noticed I get 'curling' leaves on seedlings recently, and that was in the FF Light Warrior.

#2: After I get the seeds started and they're a week or so into growing, I need advice on what nutrients to use and how much to feed. I hear 'oh use this or that brand', the 'KISS' method...I'm not a gardener by any means, so a step-by-step or specific recommendations would be great. Also, when do you begin feeding after the seedlings sprout?

#3: Overall, what should be added to the PM-BX? I have Perlite, Garden Lime and EWC. the Perlite seems like it is very 'powdery', so is it beneficial to rinse it before mixing in with PM-BX? I know PM-BX has perlite in it already, so not sure if adding more will help since PM-BX is notorious for becoming 'compact' after awhile.

#4: I bought a few gallons of Distilled and Spring water. When starting the seedlings out, which water should I use? I will eventually switch over to city tap water (ph7 with chlorine probably) - at that point I usually add a drop or two per gallon of pH DOWN. Some also say to fill the jugs up, let them sit open for a day or two to let some of the chlorine evaporate...is that true? Sometimes time is not on my side, so I literally fill the jugs, add the pH down, and water immediately.

#5: I noticed throughout a few of the grows (non-coco grows) that the leaves 'curl' and 'twist' - is that a nutrient issue or pH issue? What tools should I have on hand to test pH?

#6: 3 gallons vs 5 gallons. Yield is top concern. I have 2 tents, 1 with 2 x 1000w and 1 400W. I can either fit 12 + 4 five gallons, or a bunch of 3 gallons. It's basically bigger plants versus more plants - and not sure what would be best for my situation as I'll be growing from standard (non-fem'd) seeds and have to sex.

#7: What is the best way to avoid water 'puddling' in tents? It seems a lot of people say to thoroughly water and wait for a 'little bit' of runoff, but because PM-BX dries out and hardens the way it does, it will 'run down the sides' of the pot and it's hard to tell if the entire pot has been thoroughly watered - which means I water, come back an hour later and have puddles in the tent. I end up having to soak up this water with towels, and a lot of people say the puddling water can fuck up the roots if it gets into the pots and the roots are forced to 'soak' in this runoff.

The problem I see with the cannabis growing world is that everyone swears by THEIR method, if they grow successfully. Oh I use THIS formula and it's the best, another guy will trash that formula and say use this. I'm tired of reading this versus that, I need something SIMPLE that I can handle as this is a secretive indoor grow - some recommended the KISS method, but I am confused on that and not sure how that would apply as all I really took from it was 'mix some shit in a mason jar, mix it in with some other stuff and wah-lah'. Would be AWESOME if someone could break it down for me and explain how that would apply in my situation.

Recap:

I need specific, direct recommendations for BRANDS and types of nutrients to roll with. I'll be growing Nirvana WHITE WIDOW, BS2.2 and possibly Nirvana Medusa/Kaya Gold/Blue Mystic. Nothing entirely crazy as far as expensive beans are concerned. I grew NRS White Widow and White Rhino successfully with Canna Coco. I hear Coco is amazing, but the only thing available to me is the ROOTS brand and many are saying it's a brand to avoid due to bug reports, too many amendments, not much end-user experience posted on the web, etc.

I have:

Pro-Mix BX
Perlite
EWC
Garden Lime

#8: What is the best 'mix' of the above to ensure GOOD drainage and healthy growth (for both Veg and Flower)?

#9: Since I do not have floros to use, I actually have to start with 400W lamps to start the seedlings off. Once I plant them though after soaking the seeds, should the lights be on the 18/6 schedule RIGHT THEN AND THERE, or should I wait a few days until they pop to turn the lights on?

#10: I purchased imid (Merit 75) - being I've had bug issues the last 3 grows, is there a preventative way to use this, or should I only apply when I see or notice bugs? I want to kill those fuckers before they cause problems - should I dose in Veg just to be sure flowering goes through without a hitch?


I'm sure I'll have more questions. I need some experienced ProMix people here to post if possible, I need to get started tomorrow! I can't waste another couple hundred dollars on electricity for a failed, fucked up grow...so I plead to you ICMAG growers...help me out!

Thank you!!

 

[rocketman420]

i have used PM BX and all you are paying for is peat moss with perlite. FFOF is to expensive and it has things that take time to break down. make your own soil just like FFOF using guano, kelp, shrimp meal, bone and blood meal, ect. in your mix. i use

5 parts PM sphagnum peat moss, half price of BX
2 parts worm castings, nitrogen is ready for plant to use and gentle
3 parts perlite, if using BX 2 parts perlite
2 tsp dolomite lime per gallon of soil mix

works great for me. i use a clone machine and wait till the roots are about 2 or 3 in long and transplant into the soil mix. it works great for seadlings too, i am running both clones and seedlings right now. water with declonrinated water, leave out at least 24 hours, ph to 6-6.3. water only first weak, half strength nutes second week, then full strength after that. hope this helps good luck.

 

[rocketman420]

and for your bug problem, i just moved into a new house that had a minor bug problem, so i put bug blast on my lawn, you can get it from a co-op or farm supply store. i got a doctor doom bug bomb for indoor gardens and a bunch of raid bug bombs and bombed the shit out of it. after that i cleaned every inch of the room with water with about 15% bleach. caulk any gaps were they can get in and go to wal-mart or home depot and get some ortho home defense spray and spray your house inside and out around windows and doors and any crack or gap. keep your room and house clean and sanitary, and make sure if you are in the woods or yard working or playing you can bring unwanted pests into your grow room, so be as clean as possible when you enter. keep some neam oil or something comperable around also just in case you ever see any bugs after all that work.

 

[RSA]

thanks for the reply, but i need more specific answers to my specific issues such as what mix to use with seedlings, what mix to use when transplanting, nutrients to use, when to use Merit 75/whether or not preventative usage is necessary, etc. i numbered them because my last thread was just random responses with no real direct answers. thanks though. bug bombing isn't an option, too toxic and don't have time. i can understand the sanitation concerns though, I have been sanitizing for weeks with lysol/water, lysol spray, going to use bleach and clean out the pots, etc.

 

[Smokin Joe]

What is your ph? Not sure about with your amendments but str8 up promix bx has worked well for me at a ph of 5.8

 

[Smokin Joe]

thanks for the reply, but i need more specific answers to my specific issues such as what mix to use with seedlings, what mix to use when transplanting, nutrients to use, when to use Merit 75/whether or not preventative usage is necessary, etc. i numbered them because my last thread was just random responses with no real direct answers. thanks though. bug bombing isn't an option, too toxic and don't have time. i can understand the sanitation concerns though, I have been sanitizing for weeks with lysol/water, lysol spray, going to use bleach and clean out the pots, etc.

More spicifics are needed to help with your problems. What kind of pest do you have?

 

[vukman]

Hello:

I grow with Promix and always have...the only thing I have added was sheep manure and that was around mix of 3:1 ratio.

I use Fox Farm nutrients during the flower cycle and a generic 20-20-20 for the veg. The FF nutes are the "Tri-Pak" of Open Sesame, Beastie Bloomz and Cha Ching. During this grow I have used 'beetle shit'.....yes, I know it sounds strange but that is what I'm being told it is...

During the flush period, I add some molasses and that's about it.

I too have had issues with bugs. The last grow was "Thrips". Spinosad was the weapon of choice for them.
This grow I too had 'Fungus Gnats'. Had a bit of a problem with them but ultimately what did it for me was 'Gnatrol' or more commonly known as "Mosquito Dunks". It contains Bacillus thuringiensis subspecies israelensis. <<That is a copy and paste of the name of the active ingredient within that product. Within two weeks, they were gone.

The issue is with these pests is persistence! You have to reapply the insecticide 3-4 times on a 4-5 day schedule so you get all the larvae or else you're just shovelling shit against the tide!!

I'll include two images here. One was when the grow first started. The plants vegged for approx 5 weeks due to some training issues and fuck ups on my part. The flowering is almost one full calendar month.

If you need any more help, please do not hesitate to ask..

Good Luck

 

[Smokin Joe]

Started a thread awhile back, but it fizzled and I really didn't get much input.

I started my growing experience a few years back. Originally ran Canna Coco and FFOF, had some good results even using straight tap water and FloraNova nutrients.

Unfortunately due to cost, Canna Coco is not available for me any longer. Closest hydro shop that carries it is round-trip 250 miles. Shipping is $50-60 per bag for UPS ground from 99.9% of online retailers. I could spend $60 in gas to drive there to pick it up, but in the idea of saving money, I skipped out on going coco/hydro and am going to stick with PRO-MIX BX.

A lot of people have said they use PM-BX and have amazing grows. Not many people have issues with that as it is a 'blank' medium essentially and you can build up your own preferred nutrient profile as opposed to FFOF which already has many amendments.

Here's where I'm at. Last few grows (PM-BX w/FFOF) have turned out unsuccessful. I usually started the seeds out in FF Light Warrior, transplanted into a 50/50 mix of PM-BX and FFOF. TONS of bugs, what looked like fungus gnats, and the plants looked like GARBAGE compared to my Canna Coco grows. I usually use city tap water which is around a straight ph 7.

Here are my questions, and if you can help please note which question you are referring to (denote by #)

#1: Is starting seeds out in straight Pro-Mix BX optimal? Should I amend with perlite or anything to start them out? I want healthly, green seedlings. I've noticed I get 'curling' leaves on seedlings recently, and that was in the FF Light Warrior.
( Yes you can str8 in promix) (What is your ph?}
#2: After I get the seeds started and they're a week or so into growing, I need advice on what nutrients to use and how much to feed. I hear 'oh use this or that brand', the 'KISS' method...I'm not a gardener by any means, so a step-by-step or specific recommendations would be great. Also, when do you begin feeding after the seedlings sprout?
(Start feeding after the first set of real leaves are formed. Not the single blades but the 3 blades. Or when you can see they are hungry) ( as for nutes that is the million dollar question. Use what you can get. You may have to run a few rounds before you get it dialed in but pic 1 and stick with it. )
#3: Overall, what should be added to the PM-BX? I have Perlite, Garden Lime and EWC. the Perlite seems like it is very 'powdery', so is it beneficial to rinse it before mixing in with PM-BX? I know PM-BX has perlite in it already, so not sure if adding more will help since PM-BX is notorious for becoming 'compact' after awhile.
( you could add some chunky perlite and vermiculite but other than that I never add anything and those arnt necessary. I just add them for a filler)
#4: I bought a few gallons of Distilled and Spring water. When starting the seedlings out, which water should I use? I will eventually switch over to city tap water (ph7 with chlorine probably) - at that point I usually add a drop or two per gallon of pH DOWN. Some also say to fill the jugs up, let them sit open for a day or two to let some of the chlorine evaporate...is that true? Sometimes time is not on my side, so I literally fill the jugs, add the pH down, and water immediately.
(Do you check you ph before adding the ph down? Spring water may have a high ppm so the distilled water would be my choce. Yep let your water set out and evaporate the chlorine or use a fish tank bubbler to speed the process)
#5: I noticed throughout a few of the grows (non-coco grows) that the leaves 'curl' and 'twist' - is that a nutrient issue or pH issue? What tools should I have on hand to test pH?
(maybe ph )

#6: 3 gallons vs 5 gallons. Yield is top concern. I have 2 tents, 1 with 2 x 1000w and 1 400W. I can either fit 12 + 4 five gallons, or a bunch of 3 gallons. It's basically bigger plants versus more plants - and not sure what would be best for my situation as I'll be growing from standard (non-fem'd) seeds and have to sex.

#7: What is the best way to avoid water 'puddling' in tents? It seems a lot of people say to thoroughly water and wait for a 'little bit' of runoff, but because PM-BX dries out and hardens the way it does, it will 'run down the sides' of the pot and it's hard to tell if the entire pot has been thoroughly watered - which means I water, come back an hour later and have puddles in the tent. I end up having to soak up this water with towels, and a lot of people say the puddling water can fuck up the roots if it gets into the pots and the roots are forced to 'soak' in this runoff.

The problem I see with the cannabis growing world is that everyone swears by THEIR method, if they grow successfully. Oh I use THIS formula and it's the best, another guy will trash that formula and say use this. I'm tired of reading this versus that, I need something SIMPLE that I can handle as this is a secretive indoor grow - some recommended the KISS method, but I am confused on that and not sure how that would apply as all I really took from it was 'mix some shit in a mason jar, mix it in with some other stuff and wah-lah'. Would be AWESOME if someone could break it down for me and explain how that would apply in my situation.

Recap:

I need specific, direct recommendations for BRANDS and types of nutrients to roll with. I'll be growing Nirvana WHITE WIDOW, BS2.2 and possibly Nirvana Medusa/Kaya Gold/Blue Mystic. Nothing entirely crazy as far as expensive beans are concerned. I grew NRS White Widow and White Rhino successfully with Canna Coco. I hear Coco is amazing, but the only thing available to me is the ROOTS brand and many are saying it's a brand to avoid due to bug reports, too many amendments, not much end-user experience posted on the web, etc.

I have:

Pro-Mix BX
Perlite
EWC
Garden Lime

#8: What is the best 'mix' of the above to ensure GOOD drainage and healthy growth (for both Veg and Flower)?

#9: Since I do not have floros to use, I actually have to start with 400W lamps to start the seedlings off. Once I plant them though after soaking the seeds, should the lights be on the 18/6 schedule RIGHT THEN AND THERE, or should I wait a few days until they pop to turn the lights on?

#10: I purchased imid (Merit 75) - being I've had bug issues the last 3 grows, is there a preventative way to use this, or should I only apply when I see or notice bugs? I want to kill those fuckers before they cause problems - should I dose in Veg just to be sure flowering goes through without a hitch?


I'm sure I'll have more questions. I need some experienced ProMix people here to post if possible, I need to get started tomorrow! I can't waste another couple hundred dollars on electricity for a failed, fucked up grow...so I plead to you ICMAG growers...help me out!

Thank you!!

Just a few things in the () marks for starters

 

[rocketman420]

i use fox farms, go buy a pack of nutes its whatever you prefer, all the brands have a feeding scheadule just ease into it with the nutes the mix i posted will work for seedlings for at least a week without any nutes. i start slowly feeding my plants every 3 days then every other day during flowering. feed every other time or every time just cut nutes in half. you deffinately need a ph meter and ph your water after you add nutes. i like 6.0-6.3 some like 5.8 it all depends. and you said you had tents how big are they i got 2k in a 4x8 and can only run 18 in 3 gallon smart pots. you could do 5 gallon no prob but i think its a waste of soil. remember keep that 1000 watt hps at least 12 inchs away and thats if its air cooled. and the bugs you need a scope to see small pests. identify them and someone can help you out. dont give up

 

[unregistered190]

good info...subscribed so i can come back and read again

 

[RSA]

well, my tap water ph was around 7 last time i checked with the dye test. bugs, i think were fungus gnats. i have both gnatrol (not sure if i spelled that right) and merit 75. i guess i'll just have to dose when/if i see the bugs?

so for now, it's ok to start in straight promix.

what about MaxiGro and MaxiBloom, as far as nutes? That's from the KISS method right?

 

[RSA]

I will get pics up tomorrow of the grow rooms, but it's a homebox L and growlab gl145L

 

[vukman]

well, my tap water ph was around 7 last time i checked with the dye test. bugs, i think were fungus gnats. i have both gnatrol (not sure if i spelled that right) and merit 75. i guess i'll just have to dose when/if i see the bugs?

so for now, it's ok to start in straight promix.

what about MaxiGro and MaxiBloom, as far as nutes? That's from the KISS method right?

As far as the Merit 75 goes.......please just go easy on that stuff and use only as a last resort. It's a systemic insecticide and will stay in the plant for approx one month. I have never gone out and tested that due to the costs of testing of that calibre but I have heard and read more than enough reports which state that. Also, that one month time frame depends on how much you use as well..............just a little bit of friendly advice..

Good Luck

 

[RSA]

thanks for the input folks, still looking for specific answers on:

#2: After I get the seeds started and they're a week or so into growing, I need advice on what nutrients to use and how much to feed. I hear 'oh use this or that brand', the 'KISS' method...I'm not a gardener by any means, so a step-by-step or specific recommendations would be great. Also, when do you begin feeding after the seedlings sprout? (What about the MaxiGro/MaxiBloom nutes from the Kiss method?)

#3: Overall, what should be added to the PM-BX? I have Perlite, Garden Lime and EWC. the Perlite seems like it is very 'powdery', so is it beneficial to rinse it before mixing in with PM-BX? I know PM-BX has perlite in it already, so not sure if adding more will help since PM-BX is notorious for becoming 'compact' after awhile. In other words, what is the best ratio/mix with the above components?

#6: 3 gallons vs 5 gallons. Yield is top concern. I have 2 tents, 1 with 2 x 1000w and 1 400W. I can either fit 12 + 4 five gallons, or a bunch of 3 gallons. It's basically bigger plants versus more plants - and not sure what would be best for my situation as I'll be growing from standard (non-fem'd) seeds and have to sex. (Homebox L and GrowLab GL145L)

#10: What are good 'tools' to have on hand to test a water's ph minus strips?

 

[vukman]

http://www.happygirl.ca/learn_to_grow.htm

this is a 'seed' house in Toronto but I found the 'basic' ( for want of a better term) information contained within their grow guide can really help you answer some of your questions..

Good Luck

P.S. I am not affiliated with the above linked place nor do I endorse their products. I merely was linking to them because they offer some fairly decent information pertaining to this thread....

vukman....

 

[rocketman420]

#2. use for what you want to achieve. if you want yeild go with a chemical nute like GH Flora Nova pack, or fox farm pack, BC, there are a shit ton and all of them come with feeding schedules. if you want more flavors and quality run organic like all organics soils amended, or an organic line like earth juice, necture of the gods(about to try a run with this my local hydro shop gave me a 5 pack kit for free), or any other line. i use FF line its a mix of both organic and chemical. i give straight water first week then start the feeding schedule a little lighter than it has on the sheet and ease it in, you dont wanna burn them which is easy to do with a chemical fert. different strains like different amount of nutes.

#3. dont worry about the powder it wont hurt anything mix you 6 part PM BX, 2 part perlite, 2 parts earthworm castings or some kind of mild compost, if you dont have or cant get earthworm castings or somethin comp. use 8 parts PM BX, 2 tbs lime per gallon of soil mix.

#6. i have a 4x8x6.5 ft tent runnin 2k use 2 gallon smart pot to veg, 3 gallon smart pot to flower, and they have plenty of room. i run mostly indica strains so they are bushy and stay short. think of smart pots i have been using them and i have a great room ball and mass in my soil. i love them will never go back to plastic buckets again.

#10. go buy a ph tester pen. they are $30-300. a cheap one will do fine for a little while you will just have to replace them every couple months when they go crazy. just make sure to buy they ph. calibration solution to test, i keep my pens tip submerged in the solution in a shot glass.

 

[RSA]

My biggest issues seem to be starting the plants out healthy.

What mix is 'prime' for starting from seed? Should I amend the pro-mix at all until first transplant, or should I add EWC/Perlite/Lime for the seedlings as well? Don't wanna burn them.

 

[Smokin Joe]

I run mine str8. You will need to start feeding after about a week tho. You don;t need to add lime to pro mix. It is already in it. You can add perlite anytime you like. Why may I ask are you wanting to add lime and perlite ? As for the ewc I would hold off fo a few weeks.

 

[rocketman420]

put 20% worm castings in with it, it is high in N and very gentle for the new plants that dont have a big root sytem. just the worm castings will feed your plants for at least a week or two. i like putting lime in my soil, it helps with the ph and cal/mag problems. like i said before it is cheaper to make your own soil.

 

[chroniclabs]

pro mix is fine for all stages of growth .but being it is inert or no pre mixed nutes into the soil-less mix u must feed them or they soon will become deficient( bottom leaves turning yellow ext.) any complete name brand nute made for a soil/soil-less mix will work fine,(cutting edge botanicare G.H advanced house and garden ext). if u follow their feed charts..with the exception of using a ppm meter to make sure Ur not over feeding them.remember nute company's want u to use as much of their products as possible thats how they make their money ,so more dose NOT mean bigger or better, And as a rule of thumb do a feed-water-feed schedual, or a feed-water-water-feed schedule.and far as poping seeds go place them in a moist paper towel in a bag on a warm surface until they pop then transplant strait into the bx with a root inoculate optional, and strait Ph water until the 3rd watering or once true leafs are growing, feed them half strength veg/clone solution. and don't forget to use a fresh Ph water only every other watering at least. the ideal Ph none for pro mix or soil-less media is between a 5.5-6.5 i would start at a 6.3 and go from their based on the plants health. for bugs all i can say is a ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure..cleanleness is key and patients pays off. Best of luck to you and hope i helped a Lil.feel free to message me if you have any questions.. PEACE from chronic land.