University of Guelph paper- Flushing is a myth!

[Brother Nature]

When truth seems condescending, you should take a second look at what you're doing.

I think he was probably referring to the delivery of that 'truth' by some members as that's something I've noticed too (on here and in life). Some people get good at something and then talk down to others like they were always the best at what they do. There are a ton of incredible cannabis growers on this site, but some are real pricks about giving advise and shit all over people who are still trying to learn. These kinds of people are just assholes and regardless of how good they are at what they do, I personally ignore them and focus on the people who give out constructive criticisms and offer actual help. My humble opinion is that no one's an expert at anything until they no longer have the capacity to learn more about their chosen subject (e.g. they die). Change is the only constant and that applies to science and scientific studies as well.

 

[pinkus]

Precisely Brother Nature.

 

[GuerrillaRed]

One of the things I hate the most in life is arguing with people. I cannot tell you how many utterly stupid arguments and soap box moments I've sat through in my life with one of these "high knowledge connoisseurs" who has never grown ripping a grower to shreds about their flush and how they can tell the difference and yada yada yada. These people are complete boobs but the sheer ignorance of this culture often dictates what are the norms.

A lot of the reason people do flushes I think is just to shut these people up from having something to complain about.

I think the only time I ever noticed is when I hyper loaded in hydro with molasses in the last week or two and didn't flush. I believe it did produce a noticeably shittier thicker burn. From this is why I've always done a week flush. But my memory is super hazy on this and quite frankly I'm not sure it matters all that much.

I also don't think I've ever seen this illusive white ash. But this thread has been like being told all guys are 18 inches all my life with me having to compensate and then finding out that's just not true... not to say I'm not 18 large or anything.

I don't think it would be hard to flush soil plants at all. I certainly have washed nutrients out of my clones in soil when using just tap water for long periods of time. But that's not my jam so YMMV.

 

[dank.frank]

I'm organic soil. I don't flush. It'd be impossible. My nutrients are chemically bound within the soil via high CEC and proper balance between cations, anions and free hydrogen and oxygen.

That aside, I don't try to finish a plant that hasn't entered senescence in the first place.

...nutrients, don't - "go to the buds" - they are used to break down chloroplasts in the cell tissues which is what allows for the color change you see in leaves in the fall. These signals, are controlled from within the plant itself in combination with the environment it is exposed to.

Current cycle...plants just doing what plants do. 1wk left. Hmmmm...

Like I said earlier, Bong Fu - IC 2020 - my entry will be there.

Growers post pictures of cannabis along with their opinions and lab studies to give credence to the notion they have in some manner applied this knowledge, in which to have formulated an opinion on it.

Others, just thump their chest because they read a .pdf.

Let's not get confused here.



dank.Frank

 

[Weird]

These thread become a joke on a monumental level because substantive logic and deductive reasoning make gross majority of these posts irrelevant.

Simply put if you can't get a plant to express substantial translocation of minerals as part of senescence, forced or otherwise, you have not replicated the phenomenon.

Since science isn't conclusive the comparison is on the grower and the market they supply.

To doubt that there is a subjective preference or to say that subjectivity is meaningless simply underlines a person's nativity and inexperience with the plant and the people that use it.

This is why these forums push away anyone who put the tens of thousands of hours mastering something and of the ones that stay many do so to serve their own interests.

 

[Gauss]

I think the salt comes from people not appreciating being lectured on what is at this point nearly ancestral knowledge, experiences which back in the day you had to know folks well to get them to tip off— because some keyhole insight from a lab coat paper is getting waved around like it's the Nile's gift to Egypt. Folks need a heavy dose of learning how to take information for what it's worth. I can tell you right now the people who do five grows and think they see it all far outnumber the seasoned folks who are always striving to learn more through practice and application but still feel they are on an infinitely more verifiable path in any case. I don't blame them for not appreciating each other, but I do know one is far more credible in my own eyes.

I think this paper is very helpful, because it raises more question than it answers. That is what good science does. When taken for more than it's worth, much like the sharing of any second-hand information, it becomes a hydra of bunk idiocy. If I've ruffled any feathers you probably did it to yourself, but I do apologize for being unsympathetic in that regard.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

I think he was probably referring to the delivery of that 'truth' by some members as that's something I've noticed too (on here and in life).

Yes, you're quite correct. Admittedly, my answer was not as detailed nor as diplomatic as it should have been. Ty.

I also don't think I've ever seen this illusive white ash.

It should look similar to the photo (admittedly not my best), with less black in it. This bowl was somewhere between 2-3 tokes before being done.


I'm still looking for a photo I took of the ash in one of my bats, since that was a super clean grow and shows the nice off-white ash I like.

The key to this, as far as I'm aware, is proper feeding. During flower, excesses can be absorbed and fixed to new growth (your flowers). I work to provide the absolute minimum a plant needs, to produce full and healthy growth rates for my goals. When I mess up and overfeed, my ash inevitably gets darker. I've literally given a hydro plant r/o filtered water only, for an entire month, and still had black ash from over feeding weeks earlier.

 

[GMT]

The ICMag 2020 cup needs a new category this year:
THE GRUDGE CUP!

 

[GuerrillaRed]

Yes, you're quite correct. Admittedly, my answer was not as detailed nor as diplomatic as it should have been. Ty.


It should look similar to the photo (admittedly not my best), with less black in it. This bowl was somewhere between 2-3 tokes before being done.
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=70975&pictureid=1964528&thumb=1]View Image[/URL]

I'm still looking for a photo I took of the ash in one of my bats, since that was a super clean grow and shows the nice off-white ash I like.

The key to this, as far as I'm aware, is proper feeding. During flower, excesses can be absorbed and fixed to new growth (your flowers). I work to provide the absolute minimum a plant needs, to produce full and healthy growth rates for my goals. When I mess up and overfeed, my ash inevitably gets darker. I've literally given a hydro plant r/o filtered water only, for an entire month, and still had black ash from over feeding weeks earlier.

Gotcha, yes. Thank you for illustrating this and giving me something visual to see.

Maybe I'm just not thinking very clearly about this. I've been vaping as my weapon of choice now for so long, I can't remember the last time I actually looked at combusted ash. Let me go hit a bowl in a bong and look at the ash.

I think in my mind I'm envisioning snow white ashes but I also rarely ever combust that my memory is all goofy.

 

[GuerrillaRed]

This is only kissing the bud with a flame once or twice but is this the white ash everyone is talking about? This is bud that had about a week long flush.

I am going to have to think about this quite a bit. Quite frankly, flushing has always been convention wisdom so I haven't put a lot of thought into it. I've always just done it. But as a hydro grower who in the past played with DWCs, there were some weeks you just didn't feel like lugging dozens of gallons of water around while fighting through a jungle. So I'm not entirely sure where I stand on this yet.

I do distinctly remember trying to overdose plants on molasses and carbo loading them as much as I could in DWCs really early in my career but that was so long ago I don't remember the particulars. I do remember it had a distinctly nasty shitty burn with black sugary remnants when you combusted it. But I don't remember much beyond that. And that was so early in my career those issues could have been about a bunch of different things.

 

[MedFaced]

When I did commercial hydro, we pumped those girls full of the complete big brand line, added PGR’s like Gravity and any other shit that boss felt would pad the bottom line. A five day sugar water flush before harvest was all that we did. Many of the organic guys, including myself, would joke about how we would never smoke the nuclear hydro in the warehouse—that we were growing. However, on occasion I would light up a bowl/joint and not tell the guys it was the warehouse weed, everyone would compliment it for taste and then I’d enjoy the looks after I told them the truth. Ash color was never something noticeable. Nothing looked odd or stood out in memory. This was flushed weed that got nothing but compliments despite questionable growing ethics.

As for my personal grows, I’m completely organic, feed poop teas until the end, but cut out things like N. Ash looks normal but I’m no ash expert, never a snap, crackle, or pop unless it’s breakfast time.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

FWIW... As a baseline for whether your cannabis is "good" or not, I offer my thoughts on 'relativity' and cannabis quality HERE. I believe it gives a grower a rough estimate of where they stand, from a self perspective.

 

[dank.frank]

The ICMag 2020 cup needs a new category this year:
THE GRUDGE CUP!

hahaha!!!

DANK.FRANK vs THE WORLD

Bring it F.U.C.K.E.R.S. - been marching to the beat of that drum a LONG time.

I really would love to see this be the biggest cup ever. I hope my encouragement of some and out right goading of others increases event awareness and participation, ultimately.



dank.Frank

 

[GMT]

That price tag of over £200 quid per entry (cash value of 30g) always put me off. Then there's the shame in finishing last.

 

[Gauss]

That would be 400 British pesos to challenge a duel, fellas.

 

[MedGrowerTom]

not the best of pics, but yeah nothing to flush in organics

 

[GuerrillaRed]

Here's a thought to throw into the discussion.

Do you think you lose weight by flushing? This is something that has come across my mind in the past observing them in the last week. As I mentioned before, I can understand the argument against flushing because of potentially disrupting metabolic processes in the last week.

My metaphor for this would be starving a morbidly obese person for 7 days in which a 500 pound person would probably lose 20-30 pounds in that time.

 

[Gauss]

That's a good question. I think in theory flushing adds water weight if anything, but lowers final dry weight. This difference would probably be minuscule, but I don't know myself.


I get your example and think it's useful for an explanation but if I may nitpick, you can't really lose weight by starvation— well you can, but shortly that person will become malnourished and their body will be incapable of taking advantage of all fat reserves.

 

[Tony21]

That's a good question. I think in theory flushing adds water weight if anything, but lowers final dry weight. This difference would probably be minuscule, but I don't know myself.


I get your example and think it's useful for an explanation but if I may nitpick, you can't really lose weight by starvation— well you can, but shortly that person will become malnourished and their body will be incapable of taking advantage of all fat reserves.

Why would flushing add water weight?



A body's fat reserves, do go on, it seems relevant somehow.....!

 

[Gauss]

Why would flushing add water weight?



A body's fat reserves, do go on, it seems relevant somehow.....!

I have literally zero desire to enrich your understanding of anything. I even hope you never figure that out, because it is still humorous to me.