United Growers Front

[SeniorBuzz]

Ok lets start off by saying this is for california legal medical growers in strict compliance with their coresponding local and state laws. no mafia here.

100% compliance means 100% legal.

i understand years of being treated like a criminal have made many still feel like what they do, even legally, is illegal. those are the chains we are trying to break right?

mike - im in the greater los angeles area.


this mindset of having to maintain radio silence is what will eventually fuck all of us when the big dogs set up camp.

look im not saying everyone come out of the closet and send your name to whomever can fuck you with it. im proposing a legal association of legal cali growers. we can keep our identities in an association by using a lawyer as a gate keeper. that way everything talked about is covered by attorney client priveledge.

any other ideas?

we are only referring to growing medical marijuana legally

this is a way to keep the growers in the game

by setting up a grow that is LE endorsed and approved by the community.

pick a county to start with, where you think the growers would be willing to discuss it

 

[binaryfission]

binary, there is no black market society of growers that meet, vote, endorse candidates, set standards, provide legal assistance to its members if need be and push legislation on their behalf.

my vision is something as powerful as the farming lobby but operator maintained.

this is exactly where you miss the point. are we not meeting? do you not talk about this with your people offline? if you don't you are missing the shed that had the point on it.

How do you think marijuana from canada gets into the united states? How do you think the Vietnamese and Mexican gangs are funded? DO you really believe there is not a system already in place? You don't think the MountainMen who have been in NorCal for 40+ years have informal networks to spread information about changing laws and new nutes or new strains and new sherrifs?

they might not get together and decide who to endorse but you are trying to replace a system in existence with a new one that offers no advantages. No benefit to the added cost of being in a defined group. If its all legal then why wouldn't you want the protection of the group? I would think the average joe would wear your group's Membership Patch with pride.

NORML, MPP and other groups can do what you want in the semi legal area. Full legality in California would bring what you want, but having it open and transparent are integral to success. You will get picked apart by the media.

You think the farming lobby has anonymous members? You have a great idea but for it to be taken seriously, IMO, you need to drop this secrecy/"i'm in the basement about my pot"/protective bullshit.

In Chris Matthews Voice: Why, Mr Local Hero -President of Anonymous Potheads for Peace, are some of your members afraid to have their names be associated with your group?
Are they doing something wrong?
DO they have something to hide?
If pot is legal then why can't they be just like the NRA or the "Farmers Union"?

This line of questioning has no good answers and will only draw bad publicity. If you ever run a budget surplus people will say it is the unnamed Pot growers from some country where it is still illegal" or some other mafia type group that donated all the extra money, anonymously.

please think. this will bring endless scrutiny to your great idea. sorry to rant but i'm trying to stop you from shooting yourself in the foot.

The gay community already gave us a great example and has really played this argument out in the real world. Did you See "Milk?" Great movie. power struggle between the rich corporate closeted types (think richard lee and "not-so-hobby" growers) and the openly gay, pot smoking, grass roots of the movement (think hobby grower, med patient).

I have to stop. i could type for days. sorry to rant and/or be overbearing in response.

Come up from the Basement and Decriminalize Pot.

 

[binaryfission]

What's up BF. I'm not big computer guy but I always assumed that by posting on this website it is easy for "law enforcement" to get your information. Maybe I am wrong?

My personal opinion,


it does but there is a ton of plausible deniability. Most cases are shut and sealed by the information you give in between when you first encounter the police and when you hit the holding cell. Keep your mouth shut and let the lawyer earn his money.

security sub-forum is killer.

 

[localhero]

Binary, i agree with you completely and i would wear my badge proudly and openly. Milk was a great movie, lol funny you mention that cus i was making that parallel myself the other day while lost in thought.

to answer mr mathews, i would say: the optional identity protection feature of the United Growers Front is a nessesity for many activists who have been victimized by years of unwarranted harrassment brought onto our community by an under educated power structure.

im saying it should be optional. how many times have you seen this or similar on icmag:

respected person A: hey it seems we know alot of the same people, we should get together some time

respected person B: look, you would have to prove to me that you know a very small, very select number of individuals otherwise we will never meet. sorry to sound rude, but i have a family and life to protect.

ive seen that happen here and thats what made me think that that kind of very warranted very real mentallity of growers would make it nearly impossible to get something large going.

im sure there is cohesion to an extent up in norcal, but thats not all growers. what about the silent majority of the rest of us? we havent been mobilized.

norml and mpp and the like do not have a focus on growers issues. the mpp raised 40 grand last year. thats pitiful.

look i agree with you, i think there will be public face issues. there would be no matter what its ganja we are talkign about here.

i say make it an option to have your identity kept secret. that leaves plenty of room for people to come out of the closet. you and i will wear our badges proudly in public and whoever wishes can wear theirs proudly in private. as long as we come together as a whole and decide our future and issues pertaining to our endeavors.

there are private donations made all the time to causes, the rules vary depending on where the money goes, but it happens. now there might be some kind of law that makes it impossible to have protected identity memberships. if thats the case then case closed.

i havent talked to any lawyer about this.

back to your milk analogy. would you tell a gay man or woman that in order to be gay you have to first come out?

if people like you and i care to make our identities known, great. we would be out of the closet. for people who wish to remain unidentified, cool they can stay in the closet until they want to come out. doesnt make them any less "gay". their input and membership are just as important as anyone elses.

 

[headinthetrees]

I think another big point that is being missed here is the risk of robbery. While being legal (may) afford you the luxury of being out in the open, putting your name on a list that the general public can see could very well get you robbed, or worse. Sure a government organization could subpoena records from icmag, get your ip, subpoena customer information from your isp, then discover your identity. They would also need to prove what you said in the forums is actually true in order to get a warrant.

Beyond that, those here that are really doing big things would be wise to never log onto icmag from home. There are plenty of public places to get free wifi these days. You can take this a step further and have a laptop that is never used on your home network. Every computer has a unique MAC address which can be identified through router logs. While this would be even harder to trace back to you, it can be done.

But if all a potential thief needs to do to find a list of growers is consult his local growers organization, we're all fucked. Now we're not worrying about leo, we're worrying about pablo, mario, ivan, tyrone, john, peter, paul and mary. As long as weed remains more valuable than copper by weight, people will still be too lazy to grow it themselves and decide stealing it from others is the way to do things.

 

[binaryfission]

@headinthetrees - you sir are paranoid. your facts are correct but you have lost perspective.

@localhero - we can agree on that.

as for your question. that is exactly what i was eluding to in milk and in the LBGT community. there was a heavy internal divide over whether to out people. (when milk meets the suits at the pool and the other guy skinny dips) That in effect, every time you are afraid to tell someone you smoke pot, you at best miss an importunity to educate; at worst you fall victim to the terrorism and propaganda provided by the oppressor.

 

[BigBudBill]

I think that a few brave souls could start up the association, probably those who have encountered law enforcement with a positive experience, such as myself. After that it would grow as it became more organized and powerful. We just need to get it started.

 

[localhero]

ok new theoretical roadblock to unification:

i was talking to the owner of a dispensary i go to, he had an interesting angle. he believed that in order for something like this to work, every member would have to stay below 99 plants and work exactly within all guidelines.

the thought being that no way would it be possible to guarantee that all members would stick to those guidelines. if the feds were to investigate and find some members outside of those guidelines, possibly the entire coalition could be at risk for maintaining a criminal enterprise.



my solution:

im sure a crafty lawyer could draft a fairly bullet proof contract emancipating any grower who operates outside of 215 and 420. also, this association could only operate inside california. seperate association groups outside of cali and with med laws would have to create their own by laws and association rules. no contact between growers groups on an official level of any kind. basically i dont want to cross state borders and have to face federal law.

this needs to stay within california, and members must sign contracts stating that as a member of this group they will abide by the state and local laws governing cultivation.

 

[binaryfission]

pm when you find a lawyer. good luck.