Un-usual leaf problem help!

[Pimp Aurora]

Hi, I have just noticed this on one of my plants, i've been away for a few days and have no idea what it is! it's only affecting 1 plant at the top..

Any advice?

 

[Pimp Aurora]

there's no signs of a bug infestation.. could it be leaf spot mold? why only that one plant if it is? hmm

 

[sproutco]

Copper deficiency.

 

[Pimp Aurora]

Thanks sproutco, I'll keep my eyes peeled for some copper sulphate

 

[MTF-Sandman]

How about the details of your environment, nutes, & setup? If you're using any decent nute you shouldn't be seeing micro defs...but lockouts from nutes or PH are much more likely.

 

[sproutco]

If you got copper problems, you may have other micro problems as well. Just because only 1 plant is showing symptoms does not mean the others are not deficient.

 

[Verite]

Once again sproutco you go out calling trace elemental deficiency crap without one clue as to what this guy is using for ferts, how often hes using it and what his ph is at or if hes using tap water which usually contains plenty of copper. Im with sandman, you got a ph issue and theres no solving nute issues until you get the ph in the right range.

 

[sproutco]

Did I say apply copper? No. We are waiting for him to answer the questions mtf sandman asked. Your right, ph is important to this issue. See how to test soil ph in my signature below. Verite, you have alot of faith in tap water to supply calcium, magnesium, and all the micros. Rarely would this ever be true.

 

[VanGrow]

Is it the plant closest to the light?

 

[Pimp Aurora]

I'm using bio bizz nutes in coco coir + arthur bowers mpc 50/50 mix, watering with bottled water pH 6.5 as the pH in the tap is 8+ aparantly, I don't have a pH or cf meter, there are two others that are just a little bit shorter, it's not leaf burn anyway!

I just read the bottle of water and there is no copper in there, I read that soil buffers itself so should I try tap water? I live in the north of scotland..

 

[sproutco]

Here is a curious question. What is the source of copper in the bio bizz nutes? Is it copper sulfate or copper chelate like edta copper?

 

[Pimp Aurora]

There's no mention of copper or any trace elements on the bio-bizz nute bottles

I've been using the pH 6.5 bottled water for about a year and this is the first time this has happened, it's nirvana's aurora indica clones from a year old mum.

 

[sproutco]

You need to take steps to get your ph more precise. Your a blind grower.

 

[Pimp Aurora]

I know, I've managed to get away without buying pH and cf meters for ages, I guess they are on the spring time shopping list.

In the meantime i'll see what my local garden shop or chemist has in the way of copper, should I get sulphate or chelate? and at what amount would be used in say 1 litre of water?

 

[sproutco]

If you add just copper, this may throw the balance of the other micros off like zinc especially. Fix/adjust ph first. Then if things don't improve, I will give you some other suggestions.

 

[Verite]

Copper deficiency.

Did I say apply copper? No. We are waiting for him to answer the questions mtf sandman asked. Your right, ph is important to this issue. See how to test soil ph in my signature below. Verite, you have alot of faith in tap water to supply calcium, magnesium, and all the micros. Rarely would this ever be true.

Well asides from you not reading your own earlier posts. This is just another fine couple examples of you spitting out diagnostics without a clue.

Also you keep on saying that tap water doesnt contain sustainable amounts of many trace elements but yet you offer zero proof. Maybe try researching it like you do borax and stump remover and you'll find out your wrong [again.]

At least whe I tell you your wrong I offer the proof. [link]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_water

Heres where the water is almost soft [under 200ppm ] and theres plenty of trace elements.[pdf]
http://www.ci.torrance.ca.us/PDF/WaterQualityReport2004.pdf

Heres the trace elements available in Denvers water.[pdf]
http://www.denverwater.org/waterquality/pdfs/TreatedWQSummaryReport2005.pdf

Heres where you can find em in bottled water too. [link]
http://www.nestle-watersna.com/Menu/OurBrands/Calistoga/Calistoga+Quality+Report.htm

So theres plenty of evidence theres lots of trace elements in tap water. That combined with whats in decent ferts at the right ph range and theres no need for your constant parroting of how users needs to suppliment their waterings with gypsum and epsom and your newest infirmary kick, 'the copper deficiency'.

 

[sproutco]

Heres where the water is almost soft [under 200ppm ] and theres plenty of trace elements.[pdf]
http://www.ci.torrance.ca.us/PDF/WaterQualityReport2004.pdf

Here i picked this link. i am too stoned and slightly drunk to be your tutor. Read the micro level... Its in ppb not ppm's. That's parts per billion. So little would not make a plant grow using it alone. Don't post links you don't know how to read.

 

[Brother_Monk]

This is straight from MyNameStitch's guide to sick plants. Does this sound like what is happening in your garden?

Copper (Cu)

Copper plays a big role in producing healthy plants, stems, branches and new growths, as well as for the plants reproduction and maturity.
It also assists in carbohydrate metabolism and oxygen reduction.


Copper deficiency plants shows a lack of growth, growth tips die back, green leaves will show a bluish hue and plants may have a hard time showing maturity in vegging stages. Copper deficient plants causes irregular growth and wilting in the newer growths. The Leaves at top will wilt easily along with bleaching (chlorosis) and necrotic areas in the leaves. Leaves on the top of the plant may show veinal chlorosis.(bleaching of the veins)
Growth and yield will be diminished along with spots on the leaves that are necrotic.

To much copper in the system will cause the plant to die, as if it was a poison.Near death the plant will induce iron deficiencies and the root system will decay along with abnormal size of the roots, along with little side branching. Some new growths may not open up, along with becoming thin pale green to a bluish hue. Parts affected by copper deficiency are: new shoots, young leaves, and or the whole plant.



Problems with Copper being Locked out by Ph Troubles

High ph along with highly compacted soil that has a lack of nitrogen.



Soil

Copper gets locked out of soil growing at ph levels of 2.0- 4.5
Copper is absorbed best in soil at a ph level of 5.0-7.5 (Wouldn’t recommend having a soil ph of over 7.0 in soil) anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Copper deficiency.


Hydro and Soil less Mediums

Copper gets locked out of Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 6.5-9.0
Copper is absorbed best in Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 2.0-6.0 (Wouldn’t recommend having a ph over 6.5 in hydro and soil less mediums.) Best range for hydro and soil less mediums is 5.0 to 6.0. Anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a copper deficiency.



Solution to fixing a Copper deficiency
One way to treat a copper deficiency is by foliar feeding with Copper Sulphate, Cu sulfate, Cu chelates, Those 3 can also be used in soil. Any Chemical/Organic nutrients that have copper in them will fix a copper deficiency. (Only mixing at ½ strength when using chemical nutrients or it will cause nutrient burn!)
Other nutrients that have copper in them are: Granular, Garden Manure, Greensand.


Now if you added to much chemical nutrients and or organics, (which is hard to burn your plants when using organics) you need to flush the soil with plain water. You need to use 2 times as much water as the size of the pot, for example: If you have a 5 gallon pot and need to flush it, you need to use 10 gallons of water to rinse out the soil good
enough to get rid of excessive nutrients. Damaged leaves will NOT recover.





Picture 1 is a copper deficiency, (it may look like a over fertilization ( nitrogen) but look at the bottom of the leaves, notice how they are yellow and a bit of white, also some of the fan leave tips are brown and dying off.)

Here's the link to the thread if you need to see a picture of copper deficiencies.http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688

Please refer to this thread before taking any advice.

This infirmary has become a fucked up place with all the crazy advice and bickering bitches. Who the hell wants to come in here and ask for help when the responses are usually wrong or theres just too much fighting? I'm only speaking for myself....but I wish this shit would stop!
End rant.

Peace
BM

 

[sproutco]

Leaves on the top of the plant may show veinal chlorosis.(bleaching of the veins)

Yep, check the first post pics.

when the responses are usually wrong

You don't like my responses?

 

[Brother_Monk]

If the shoe fits...