Twisted Leaves on new growth, need help

[eebbnflow]

Sorry this was a mistake I can’t delete the post either .

 

[f-e]

It depends what shape you want the plant. The shade leaves might be promoting some lower limbs to stretch out, which for a flat topped plant would be nice.

It's good to see the fresh growth looking nice. Ca isn't mobile so there is no fixing the old stuff. It seems your over the worst of it though. Which was actually quite bad, I'm now seeing.

It's your call. There is no right or wrong. Just different needs. Maybe you just want more photogenic plants. I wouldn't blame you

 

[bizarro517]

Yea i know the damaged leaves wont turn back and be all green again, which is fine. my thought about doing some pruning or maintenance was if it was just going to be another stress factor for them, and upset them again. but that doesn't seem to be the case, i only took a few damaged fan leaves from each plant last night.
Now two of the plants seem like they'll be needing some water tomorrow or Wednesday. (they consume water at different rates) Should i stick with RO water and just amend with cal/mag and my flower nutes. or switch back to city water with flower nutes?
I dont plan on going heavy with any nutrients on this water, but they seem like they need something now that the RO has ran through them.

 

[TanzanianMagic]

Just as an overall view, I got in this morning before lights on so I could get some pictures under normal light. here is how they look now and some of the abnormalities that I've seen throughout veg.

I'm considering removing some of the damaged leaves and just some all around clean up of the plants today, removing some of the lower fan leaves and such. good idea, yes or no?

This is clearly a mobile nutrient deficiency. Most likely magnesium, if not that then phosphorus. Add to that the twisted leaves, and the fact that mobile nutrients get locked out at a low pH, you should also look pH and stability of the medium or use of R/O water.

Always also check your environment - is the floor cold, because low temps can also lock out nutrients. And always check for bugs, because they can also cause nutrient deficiency.

 

[bizarro517]

well i definitely think ive been having PH swings, but my bluelabs meter showed up on Saturday, so we can monitor PH much better now. Most of what I've read says to water at a PH 6, are we good on that number?
To add to what you say Tanzanian, i'm not sure you can notice in the one picture, but since only watering with straight RO water, im getting purpling stems at the tops/new growth, this contributes to your lack of Phosphorus correct?

 

[TanzanianMagic]

well i definitely think ive been having PH swings, but my bluelabs meter showed up on Saturday, so we can monitor PH much better now. Most of what I've read says to water at a PH 6, are we good on that number?
To add to what you say Tanzanian, i'm not sure you can notice in the one picture, but since only watering with straight RO water, im getting purpling stems at the tops/new growth, this contributes to your lack of Phosphorus correct?

That's most likely from magnesium deficiency.

The correct pH depends on the medium.

Hydro like rockwool - dk, I don't grow in Hydro. However, I've heard it's lower, like 5.5 to 5.8.
Coco Coir - 6.0 throughout the grow is trouble free.
Organic soil - about 7.0

 

[bizarro517]

i'm running promix mx bx. from my understanding it is not an organic soil.

 

[f-e]

It's always interesting when people have different views on the same issue. It looks nothing like a P problem to me, but I wouldn't rule out Mg. If the problem is following up the plant, as new growth appears, that would further add to that case.

Ca or Mg, it's still calmag. It was on my mind when I suggested it.

It came when you used the RO if I'm hearing right, and RO shouldn't cause a Ph shift. There is nothing in it. It's dominated by the medium.


City water, I dunno. I'm not sure what's in yours.

 

[bizarro517]

The cal mag issue showed much more prominent after the RO usage.
prior to that i was using city water and PH downing it, after i noticed some weird growth. so i started with city water not PH'd, then started PH downing city water (to help correct issues, which may have all been from too much light anyway). i'm admitting that i undoubtedly forced the PH swings from those waterings. and once things got bad i did that clean RO water and the cal mag issues showed quickly. tomorrow will be a week with the RO watering and the plants are actually looking better.



so i guess one of my big questions right now is, what nutes should i water with next. strictly cal/mag? or should i put some tiger bloom in there as well? most things are looking green aside from the cal/mag damaged leaves.

 

[PDX Dopesmoker]

Just as an overall view, I got in this morning before lights on so I could get some pictures under normal light. here is how they look now and some of the abnormalities that I've seen throughout veg.



I'm considering removing some of the damaged leaves and just some all around clean up of the plants today, removing some of the lower fan leaves and such. good idea, yes or no?

A lot of the problems in your pictures look like typical russet/broad mite damage.

 

[bizarro517]

Yea PDX, I understand that. I have more predatory mites arriving tomorrow just as a precaution, but some of that leaf twist is evening out right now. And I've scoped up to 150x on a lot of separate leaves and haven't seen anything. Still doesnt mean they're not there, just not confirmed.

 

[TanzanianMagic]

The cal mag issue showed much more prominent after the RO usage.
prior to that i was using city water and PH downing it, after i noticed some weird growth. so i started with city water not PH'd, then started PH downing city water (to help correct issues, which may have all been from too much light anyway). i'm admitting that i undoubtedly forced the PH swings from those waterings. and once things got bad i did that clean RO water and the cal mag issues showed quickly. tomorrow will be a week with the RO watering and the plants are actually looking better.

so i guess one of my big questions right now is, what nutes should i water with next. strictly cal/mag? or should i put some tiger bloom in there as well? most things are looking green aside from the cal/mag damaged leaves.

It could simply be magnesium deficiency because of R/O water and pre-flowers showing up on top of that. I've had that happen several times.

The way I solved it was to take a quart of R/O water, put a pinch of magnesium lime (like Maerl) in it and let it stand for a day. Then without the residue mix 1:3 parts with more R/O water. That will prevent magnesium deficiency.

 

[TanzanianMagic]

i'm running promix mx bx. from my understanding it is not an organic soil.

It is basically peat moss. Some people call that a soilless mix, however it is organic. Peat moss naturally has as very low pH, so they added some limestone.

The best thing to do is to keep the nutrient pH slightly above 7.0, to adjust the medium's pH a little upwards, and to not wear down the buffering capacity of the limestone.

 

[Dankwolf]

Hey all, newer grower here, having some issues with the plants. the tacoing seems to have started once I changed them from florescent to metal halide. first thought was heat or light intensity, so temps had never gone above 80, but the MH was rather close at first. I am in a sealer room running CO2. I am using foxfarm Grow Big, on their first watering in 5 gal pots I did 3 teaspoons per gallon, then about 10 days later they got 2 teaspoons a gallon (which was on 12/18/18). After the first big feed, the leaves were exhibiting twisting/taco-ing and sort of blistering (which i thought was light intensity for a bit) since then ive been giving them regular h2o, which i used ph test kit to bring the ph down a bit, my normal h2o seems to be right around ph7. They were dry this morning so they just received 2 gallons of straight RO water (first time), hence the droopy leaves in the pictures. As you can see, new growth is rather twisty and tacoish.





Also, this is my 4th grow in this room, others have turned out fine not PHing the water and using the same type room setup. all runs have been a different strain. the most recent run, last winter, apparently we had broad mites. since then ive had no plant material in the building for 8 months, disinfected, bleached and pesticides on everything and obviously clean everything a few more times with bleach. also once i started these from seed, a few weeks in, i used a few cycles of the N. Californicus predatory mites that are supposed to seek broads and kill them. I see no visible signs of eggs on leaves under a 150x scope, and the plants arent acting the same as i remember with broads.


I'd love some input from you guys here, much thanks and appreciation!





[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]How long has this problem been going on? 4 weeks
What STRAIN are you growing? Ethos genetics Chem OG
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?) seed
What is the age of your plants? 8 weeks
How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now? same type (pro mix mx bx), just upped into ten gal on january 2
Were they in the same mixture when they were seedlings/smaller plant? If not, what mixture were they in before? same
How Tall are the plants? 2-3 feet
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? vegetative
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc)
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot) 10 gallon
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?) promix mx bx
What brand Nutrient's are you using? foxfarm
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful* 3 teaspoon per gallon
How often are you feeding? currently not feeding for 2 weeks
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients?
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect)
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used? no meter
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? no meter
How often are you testing pH/ppm/EC/TDS? no meter
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?
How often are you watering? when pots are light
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding? 12/18
What size bulb are you using? 1000 watt MH at first, past few days are two HPS, adjustable ballast, using 75%
How old is your bulbs? 2 runs
What is the distance to the canopy? 2 feet
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity) 58-70%
What is the canopy temperature? max 82, min 72 at night
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range) 82-72 Day/night
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) sealed room with CO2
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? one fan for lights pulls cold air in and pushes the warm air out of the room, none of this air is for the room, just to cool lights. 6" fan with scrubber circulating in room. have an auxiliary 4" fan hooked to a thermostat to pull air out incase of overheat. two fans mounted on wall blowing about 2 feet above canopy.
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? no over top
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? dries slowly
Is your water HARD or SOFT?
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water? as of 1/8 using RO water
If using tap water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS of the water right out of the tap?(Only if you have a tds pen) no meter
If using RO,Distilled,mineral water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS without any additives?(Only if you have a tds pen) no meter
Are you using water from a water softener? no
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched? no
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when? no
Are plant's infected with pest's? under 150x I see nothing
[/FONT]

Wow lol . plants look great minis in my opionion a bit under watered . and tacoing of leafs are fine . when my par (light intensity ) is high and feed is high I get same situation .

I would cut back feed till soil depletes a bit and water more often . from what I can see it looks like plants are running out of moist soil before you water . if you pick potter up you should be able to tell if potter is top heavy ie: not watering enough ? Maybe even to much but I bet its a 99% chance of watering error ....

If watering schedlue is not the issue I would look at water / soil ph next . it could be that they are out of range . I dought this though ....

 

[bizarro517]

From what you say Tanzanian, sounds like I should just go back to city water, my ph is around 7 for that. And I used to just use city water and nutes with promix, and didn't have any issues, and I never PH'd that water.

 

[Dankwolf]

From what you say Tanzanian, sounds like I should just go back to city water, my ph is around 7 for that. And I used to just use city water and nutes with promix, and didn't have any issues, and I never PH'd that water.

Issue found .

 

[bizarro517]

Right Dankwolf... just a big old user error. It really seems that this strain is sensitive to light, as soon as I turned it down things got better. So I misjudged a light issue for a feeding/watering issue. Which caused me to give myself a feed/water issue, trying to fix something that wasn't the issue. Looks like we're on a road to recovery though.

 

[bizarro517]

Here are some pictures as we stand tonight. Just threw the lower stem one on there because I always find that interesting how some do that.

 

[TanzanianMagic]

From what you say Tanzanian, sounds like I should just go back to city water, my ph is around 7 for that. And I used to just use city water and nutes with promix, and didn't have any issues, and I never PH'd that water.

As Dankwolf said - issue found.

Right now it all maybe magnesium deficiency, including the canoeing which is also called 'praying for magnesium'.

And the cause is the combination of R/O water and the first pre-flowers showing up, which also means a requirement for more phosphorus is not far behind.

The Promix in itself doesn't have a lot of nutrients in it.

If you use tapwater and let it stand next to the plants for at least an hour, it will be the same temp and not shock the plants, and if let it stand for a day or so, at least some of the chloride will evaporate.

The way I water and feed plant with a single medium now, is to give one full dose of nutrients, and then bottom water with tapwater to hydrate the media, until nutrient deficiencies show up again.

That way you don't overfeed the plants, and unused nutrients never build up to toxic concentrations. It also encourages roots to seek out nutrients in the medium, which leads to much better developed roots. Which means much fewer nutrient deficiencies in the future, because much more of the nutrients will be absorbed more quickly.

 

[bizarro517]

Yea, I usually leave the water out a couple days to dechlorinate. And I had to water a few of them today, so they just got straight city water.