True Terpenes VISCOSITY extract liquifier LAB TESTS: Mineral oil but no terps!!

[art.spliff]

Internet Archive has the Skunk Pharm website saved e.g. July 2015. This is the best information resource I've found and worth saving.

There is an article on emulsifying vegetable glycerin and butane honey oil. No reference for the source/purpose/existence of dilution terpenes I'm aware of.

Other than manufacturer claims and your lab results posted here I'm not sure what such places are selling. Or even what it is they claim to sell. People are looking to make a buck with distillate cartridges.

An emphasis on petroleum mining, industrial processing, and chemical engineering is apparent with commercial distillates. Meaning the processing of plant material into diluted single dose cartridges with an exorbitant retail markup looks practiced, polished.

While there is apparent value/opportunity in this kind of delivery mechanism the available cannabis distillates appear to have come more from industrial chemists or capitalists than cannabis farmers/cultivators/enthusiasts. Let alone being sustainably organically produced. This is more a critique of the low product quality than the high dollar cost.

One of my questions for those more experienced - Do you feel there are advantages to vape liquid compared to BHO, bubble hash, wax, shatter, RSO? It it only convenience?

Combusting I feel has unintended side effects. Vaporizers can be inconvenient, expensive, or relatively slow to use.

Lower temperature vaping of concentrates through a bubbler I've found to be easier on the lungs.

Is it possible that vegetable glycerin or another additive may help the lungs? Instead of carcinogenic smoke, maybe an epithelium-friendly carrier can be atomized along with the THC & essential oils?

 

[TrueTerpenes]

Uncovered the false post.

Uncovered the false post.

Hello Everyone, we got to the bottom of this.

True Terpenes has built our brand on consistency, quality, and trust. It is simply not an option for us to sneak any sub-par or sketchy materials into our products. Not everyone knows how deep our integrity runs and might assume this kind of info is true. It is absolutely not.

We have proof that the post is malicious. Upon further investigation of "Extract Ninja's" posts, we found an extremely conflicting statement, proving that the story is a lie.

In the first post, the user states that they used the product, didn't like it, and had "enough Viscosity left to justify testing it"

Later, they describe the chain of custody. Both times they submit a sample they clearly state that they send the bottle immediately after they receive it "with the protective plastic cover still in place."

These conflicting statements combined with the fact that the users account was created only this month point all fingers to this being a fake post used to be malicious towards us. If the bottle was in fact sealed when it arrived to the lab, then it likely was tainted and re-sealed for submission.

Viscosity's blend is a trade secret and is not required to be disclosed as it has been properly registered as such. We are an FDA liscensed facility, all of our products, labels, and facilities have been inspected and passed with flying colors by all of the necessary governing bodies.

We appreciate everyone who is looking out for the industry, together we make it better, and together we can uncover malicious posts used to tarnish good reputations. We have worked incredibly hard to create a trusted brand and we will continue to stand by our integrity 100%.

 

[MrBungle]

Yea any new account coming in hot like that on a reputable company, should be taken with a grain of salt... they are usually either butt hurt or a direct competitor... so I file it with fake news until proven otherwise!.. I've tried your terpenes and I liked them... the SLH blend was spot on!

 

[TrueTerpenes]

Wow. I am so disappointed. Not even gonna front, I made a couple batches with Viscosity too. I also still use True Terps for other blends. Oh hellllll no....

Great post. Thank you for sharing and exposing some unacceptable bullshittery.

You can continue to trust us. See our previous post. It's unfortunate that someone decided to post a malicious fake post about test results. We have always stood behind our integrity and quality and will continue to do so. Thanks for using our product, its just as safe as it ever was.

 

[Cvh]

I have to agree with TrueTerpenes on this one.
ExtractNinja only joined our board to bad mouth the True Terpenes Company.

And I agree also there is a contradiction in his statement about the bottles he got and sent out for testing.

And finally who in this world would spent 600$ on a product he just didn't liked? Is he so worried for our health? Lol. Or are there other motives?

Fellow concentrators: If you use True Terpenes beware!

I'm sharing these lab tests (costing me more than $600) to get the word out about the lies True Terpenes is telling regarding their extract liquifier product: Viscosity diluent

I choose to have Viscosity tested at two labs because I really disliked the product.

@TrueTerpenes, you better also be honest what is in your bottles. More testing might be performed on your products by other competitors and other people who want to damage your company. As you just experienced.
The cannabis market is opening up worldwide and if ExtractNinja's his claims are true, then this might be a stigma you'll never loose.

 

[ExtractNinja]

Hello Everyone, we got to the bottom of this.

We have proof that the post is malicious. Upon further investigation of "Extract Ninja's" posts, we found an extremely conflicting statement, proving that the story is a lie.
In the first post, the user states that they used the product, didn't like it, and had "enough Viscosity left to justify testing it"

Later, they describe the chain of custody. Both times they submit a sample they clearly state that they send the bottle immediately after they receive it "with the protective plastic cover still in place."

These conflicting statements combined with the fact that the users account was created only this month point all fingers to this being a fake post used to be malicious towards us. If the bottle was in fact sealed when it arrived to the lab, then it likely was tainted and re-sealed for submission.

Viscosity's blend is a trade secret and is not required to be disclosed as it has been properly registered as such. We are an FDA liscensed facility, all of our products, labels, and facilities have been inspected and passed with flying colors by all of the necessary governing bodies.

Nothing malicious. Just don't like your product so I had it tested. This is very common in industries other than this one. I feel strongly that our communities should freely and openly share data and help each other, and that's the only reason I posted.

It would be nice if you addressed the GC results rather than slander me and launch ad hominem and straw man attacks. Data doesn't lie. Nowhere in this post did you address the central issue with any proof of rebuttal, only your word. I provided two GC analyses. Data is much better than someone's word.

Please disprove the lab tests with more than your word. Short of that, anyone who trusts True Terpees is being willfully ignorant or simply too trusting.

There are no conflicting statements. And there is no "they" it's only me. I never wrote I tested the bulk product I had. Doing so wouldn't have been fair to True Terpenes because I could have mistakenly contaminated the samples. This is basic good laboratory practices in terms of analytical testing. If I had sent samples from my bulk amount you would have blamed the presence of mineral oil and total lack of terpenes on me for not sending in a new sample.

You accuse me of getting a bottle of Viscosity, somehow removing the plastic seal, tainting it with mineral oil and removal of all terpenes, then re-applying the plastic seal somehow, and then sending it to the lab. LOLWUT?!

Please prove the tests wrong. No one is stopping you but you.

FDA license doesn't mean anything. E-cig companies put all kinds of crap in there, including mineral oil I've heard, and they are cGMP and FDA certified.

What does how long I've had an account matter? You joined after me, so does that mean we cannot believe you either?


Questions for TT:

.Do you refute the results of the tests?

.If you do refute the tests, please explain where the mineral oil came from (remember, two separate labs tested two separate samples).

.Also please explain why the one of the world's best terpene testing labs and terpene experts (Ph.D in chemistry) found zero sign of any terpenes. And remember that Dr. Pappas has one of the largest terpene standard collections in the world, far more than I suspect TT may have access to.

.Please go into more detail about Viscosity. What type of terpenes are you claiming is in there?


Just to summarize the TWO test results:

NO terpenes were found, none, nada, zip, zlich. I had it tested by one of the best terpene test labs in the world, by one of the world's top terpene experts, who has among the greatest selection terepene standards (I assume more than True Terpenes). If there were terpenes in there they would have found them, period.

Mineral oil WAS found. It may not be the main ingredient, but it's a major part according to two separate lab tests at two separate labs.

Very heavy, non-volatile, odorless (non-terpene) material WAS found by both labs. Neither lab can identify it, but they did RULE OUT it being terpenes. The first lab thought it may be some type of petroleum oil based isoparaffin solvent.

There is NO squalene in Viscosity, none, nada, zero, zip, zilch. Lots of people claim its base is squalene (a type of terpene), but it's NOT..


Everyone is free to think and do what they want, but with all the other companies offering dilutants I don't see any reason to use something that has been found to contain ZERO TERPENES but does have mineral oil. Especiallyy after the company won't provide any real rebuttal to the test results.

 

[ExtractNinja]

Here's the report from the first lab. Still waiting on context in report from. https://docdro.id/NJehRsp

 

[ExtractNinja]

And finally who in this world would spent 600$ on a product he just didn't liked? Is he so worried for our health? Lol. Or are there other motives?

No other motives. I had a lot of bulk Viscosity from a group purchase (worth way more than $600) that I didn't want to toss without a really solid reason. So, spending a few hundred an both tests and few hundred on new bottles of Viscosity made financial sense.

 

[TrueTerpenes]

No other motives. I had a lot of bulk Viscosity from a group purchase (worth way more than $600) that I didn't want to toss without a really solid reason. So, spending a few hundred an both tests and few hundred on new bottles of Viscosity made financial sense.

When did you purchase these bottles and samples that went to the lab?

 

[ExtractNinja]

When did you purchase these bottles and samples that went to the lab?

Don't recall the exact days but recently the samples were purchased.

 

[gh0stm0de]

Uh oh... I dont recall... Not even a copy of an email, a receipt, a text, tracking number, nothing...? It is clear that there could be significant financial incentive for slandering or otherwise defaming TT and this account was made for this purpose, legit or not. This is a great opportunity for TT to slam dunk this issue by being more forthcoming or at least presenting their own test result..

 

[ExtractNinja]

Uh oh... I dont recall... Not even a copy of an email, a receipt, a text, tracking number, nothing...?

Don't have them in front of me. It's been in the last 60 days or so. See lab test dates as approximations (accounting for lab testing turn around time of a few days to a week).


I do have a bit of worry sharing exactly the day, text, phone number, etc., because I'm not sure I won't have my name and address released publicly. I think I can find the lot number, which should be more than enough to help True Terpenes track down any issues on their end. I'll look for more info.

 

[ExtractNinja]

Anyone really interested and/or suspicious of me or my motives can verify the info I posted by getting a sample testing themselves. I've not nothing to hide or fear from what I've written.



Just buy a bottle and send it to a lab (without opening the bottle) that can do such testing. A test is around $150 to $400 depending upon where you go.


Please post results in this thread. All valid testing results are welcome.

 

[TrueTerpenes]

Don't recall the exact days but recently the samples were purchased.

Surely you remember the month in which they were purchased? Just trying to gain clarity on all of this. We take these claims very seriously and want to get the bottom of this.

Viscosity has always been terpenes. We would not jeopardize our company that has been built on testing and purity to put mineral oil in our product.

Clarity is also needed on your statement. Why did you say you had JUST enough to send to the lab in your first statement and then in your second you said you bought brand new bottles?

We will investigate all claims and want a fair process if you are telling the truth, but it is hard to understand the claims when two separate statements are conflicting.

 

[ExtractNinja]

Don't have them in front of me. It's been in the last 60 days or so. See lab test dates as approximations (accounting for lab testing turn around time of a few days to a week).


I do have a bit of worry sharing exactly the day, text, phone number, etc., because I'm not sure I won't have my name and address released publicly. I think I can find the lot number, which should be more than enough to help True Terpenes track down any issues on their end. I'll look for more info.

Lot # 18110509 first lab test
Lot # 18129601 second lab test, this is listed in the 2nd lab test, as is the test date


That should be much more useful to TrueTerpenes than my order number, date, name, address, etc.

 

[ExtractNinja]

Surely you remember the month in which they were purchased? Just trying to gain clarity on all of this. We take these claims very seriously and want to get the bottom of this.

Viscosity has always been terpenes. We would not jeopardize our company that has been built on testing and purity to put mineral oil in our product.

Clarity is also needed on your statement. Why did you say you had JUST enough to send to the lab in your first statement and then in your second you said you bought brand new bottles?

We will investigate all claims and want a fair process if you are telling the truth, but it is hard to understand the claims when two separate statements are conflicting.

I already stated about how long ago I purchased them, at two different times. See the test date and lot # listed on the test result from the first post.

I also just posted both of the lot numbers the samples were from. The fact it was two different lots is a big deal. I just realized it was from two different batches.

Please stop with the straw man stuff. Please just do us all a favor and focus on the issue at hand. It's a serious issue if you are intentionally or unintentionally adding mineral oil and forgetting to add terpenens. And re-read my posts relating to how much I had when I decided to send in samples for testing. I never wrote I had "just" enough, I never wrote how much I had left. And I already explained that good laboratory practices diciate a new and unopened sample must be sent to the lab (I did that to protect TT and get legit results).

 

[dank.frank]

Tens of thousands of people using this product without any real knowledge what it is because it's a proprietary secret.

I thought the whole reason we all grew our own was in part, for the sole purpose, of knowing what was in it! You all enjoy walking around with robot dicks in your mouth, I'm going to stick to old fashion organic homegrown; chemical and solvent free.

They make portable vape e-nails now too. Rosin in a small silicone container and you're good to go. No need for all this filler juice in the first place. Completely unnecessary industry entirely fabricated by creating a false need. Trend.

Where there is a trend, there will always be some quick fly by night company looking to cash in before the weather shifts. Look at the seed market as a perfect example.

I think TrueTerps has a lot of explaining and a lot of information they need to provide before they come in here waving a magic wand touting their excellence.

They are just as new here as the other guy and just because they are a company vs an individual does not grant them any more validity. If they want to defend themselves against this accusation, to protect their brand, maybe they can do so by providing facts and data.

After all, the only reason they made the account, is to ensure their bottom end isn't impacted. They don't want the cash train to stop.

The OP - isn't suggesting any other products. He isn't shilling. I don't care if he is their biggest troll, if his data is correct, then he has every logical reason to be!

If anything needs to be taken with a grain of salt, it's the claims of the one trying to protect their cash cow - NOT - the other way around. Sorry. Just my opinion on this topic. The potential of such happening, is EXACTLY why I've stayed away from carts; Prove my skepticism wrong.

Both of you, welcome to ICmag and I hope a civil tone is maintained and a public resolution achieved.



dank.Frank

 

[MrBungle]

I gotta disagree.... True Terpenes is reputable whether they are part of this forum or not... There is nothing that says Extract Ninja has any type of credentials

 

[MrBungle]

Not to mention if you are going to accuse a company of adulterating their own product in which the company goes out of their way to make known it is pure 100% terpenes along with independent lab results and accreditation... You better come with better documentation than a couple graphs.... Show us something real or it is fake news....

 

[ExtractNinja]

As far as I know I'm the only one providing test results from independent labs showing what's in Viscosity. TT doesn't provide anything like what I've provided. They provide an SDS that has no useful info about what's in there, a COA that likewise has no info about what's in there, and other non-relevent certs.

What I provided is what needs to be provided. There's nothing more or better that could have been provided. It's not "just graphs" to people who know what they are looking at. And please stop with the fake news stuff.


So, I'm the only one providing science, data and facts. TT provides their word so far, and that's it. I'd love to see TT show independent 3rd party lab GC results, proving the lab tests I had done were erroneous. Or at least provide some type of proof to back up their claims. At minimum they could just describe what type of terpenes they claim is in Viscosity, they could tell is what class of terp, etc, without giving away secrets.

There are not a lot of odorless and flavorless terps they could be using. And the lab tests ruled those out as ingredients in Viscosity.