Treating PM/mold in flower

[Loc Dog]

I only watered every three days, I was getting run off every time I watered at that time. Though the plants recently got tall enough that I had to take out the drainage tray and I have not been watering them to run off for the past couple of weeks. Would you suggest flushing as an attempt to solve the issue? How much water would I flush?

If it is coco, feed half strength, and test runoff to get an idea how far off they are. Then flush heavy with half strength. Then empty collection tray and feed a little more, and see if you are where you want to be, or less. I also add florakleen to the flush mix.

I do not pretend to understand, but experts say never to use straight water, due to cation exchange. If it is soil, I have no idea.

 

[Eager2Grow]

I am out of ph pen calibration liquid at the moment. Would using my EC pen to measure the ppm of the run off be an appropriate way to see if there was nute lockout? I assume if the run off is substantially higher than the nutrient water then I have a lockout problem?

 

[Loc Dog]

I am out of ph pen calibration liquid at the moment. Would using my EC pen to measure the ppm of the run off be an appropriate way to see if there was nute lockout? I assume if the run off is substantially higher than the nutrient water then I have a lockout problem?

That is what I do. Others will swear you never need to check runoff, but that is only if you are an expert, and feed multiple times a day. If it dries out, you get salt buildup. i have fed 600 PPM and had 2500 PPM runoff, when I did not check for weeks. My best grow ever, I micro managed the runoff of each plant. That 2500 PPM runoff was 4.7 PH feeding 6.0 PH.

 

[Eager2Grow]

Cool, I will give that a shot. Thanks for the advice, the medium has dried out once or twice so maybe its that. I have a broken arm right now (which is partially why this grow has been undermanaged and probably contributed to things going wrong) and may not be able to get help to check that until tomorrow. I have got my brother who is about to help me spray the plants down with baking soda, as I couldn't find raw milk in time, but he is heading out so probably won't be keen to fuck around with run off etc. until tomorrow, unfortunately.

 

[The Hermit]

I've had good results using H2O2 in flower, it kept pm under control with weekly spraying outdoors. Also simply washing down the plants with water hose seems to help, as long as they've got time to dry before nightfall.

Then a couple of days before harvest i washed the plants down with an aloe vera and epsom salt mix. It's the second year that I've done the Aloe & Epsom wash and although at first i was dubious, i've had the best two years of buds ever and a lot less problems with mould in the drying room.

 

[Eager2Grow]

How much did you dilute the H202? I have a few bottles of 3% H202 lying around.

I am also curious about the specifics of the aloe vera and epsom salt mix.

 

[redlaser]

Amen to that. Except instead of "rotten farts" I vote for the expression "dirty diapers". Interestingly though, if you mix milk with Serenade, then for some reason that stink "odor" is a whole lot less. I was going to mention Serenade for early flower treatment (but you beat me to it, lol)--but when you see these gorgeous buds being ruined with PM and you are weeks away from harvest then my vote is the milk/water treatment. After all, milk is water, amino acids, carbohydrate, fat, enzymes, bacteria, vitamins, and what not--and my experience with late milk treatments is a few days after treatment, buds seem to come alive (as in greener not browner) and they kinda favor or like the minute dosage of "milk food".

If the notion of spraying milk on buds that you plan to smoke bothers you, then a simple "winter shower" will wash away any residue. When I sprayed milk on my plants the very first time I was worried about any unintended consequences that milk would cause--so when I chopped the plant, I walked into the shower and rinsed the plants, then hung them upside down with a fan blowing on them until I saw no water. PIA, but I felt better at the time. The next harvest (a week later) I did not rinse after chop and compared the two batches...and saw/smoked/tasted/felt no difference--except the buds from the rinsed plant were more "larfy" and not as tight. So...if it were me, a 10% milk residue from spraying a week or so before harvest is something I would not worry about.

The serenade and milk combo seems like a waste of serenade. The active ingredient in serenade is a trademarked bacillus strain, #73 I think. Milk will work because of the fat content, smothering the pm spores, but in theory would also smother the serenade's bacillus spores.
Sulpher vaporizers work well in veg and for the room itself, how far into flower it could be used is an unknown to me without ill effects.

 

[Muleskinner]

another vote to kill everything & start over with the correct culture (humidity & air flow). To stay 100% organic that's what I would do.

with mites and powdery mildew there's no victory without cut-down for the organic gardener IMO. I know from fighting PM outside it's a battle of attrition, you never truly win. I think PM is worse on the west coast because the mold strains thrive in lower humidity. Here in the northeast the PM strains like higher humidity and it's harder to come indoors. I keep my humidity at 30-40% and it never comes in.

 

[DocTim420]

The serenade and milk combo seems like a waste of serenade. The active ingredient in serenade is a trademarked bacillus strain, #73 I think. Milk will work because of the fat content, smothering the pm spores, but in theory would also smother the serenade's bacillus spores.
Sulpher vaporizers work well in veg and for the room itself, how far into flower it could be used is an unknown to me without ill effects.

I too once thought the fat in milk was the fungicide factor and did a few rounds using raw kefir milk (lots of fat), but then I discovered from several milk studies that it probably is the combination of lactose (sugars) and amino acids. So I tried using skim milk and actually got better results and observed zero milk residue on the leaves (yes...at 50/50 rates and high frequency spraying).

BTW, I use EZ-Wet (90% saponin sourced from yucca) as my wetting/spray adjuvant). And if one has a PM problem real late in flower--the last thing you want is a build up of fat residues on mature fat buds.

Here is what the boys wearing white lab coats with pocket protectors say (from the research in my first post in this thread):

Cow milk may have more than one mode of action in controlling zucchini squash powdery mildew. Fresh milk may have a direct effect against S. fuliginea due to its germicidal properties (Salle, 1954). Milk contains several salts and amino-acids (Martins Filho, 1987). These substances have been shown to be effective in controlling powdery mildew and other diseases (Reuveni et al, 1993/1995; Mucharromah and Kuc, 1991; Titone et al, 1997; Pasini et al, 1997). Several authors have shown that sodium bicarbonate, oxalate, dibasic or tribasic potassium phosphate, and other salts and amino-acids have been efficient in the induction of systemic resistance (Reuveni et al, 1993/1995; Mucharromah and Kuc, 1991; Titone et al, 1997; Pasini et al, 1997; van Andel, 1966). Therefore milk may also indirectly affect S. fuliginea by inducing systemic resistance.


But if the heavier styled milk worked for you, cool! I imagine the milk/water ratio you used with higher fat level was not 50/50--probably 10/90...or 30/70? If so, then I submit the amino acid concentration (active fungicide ingredient of sorts) of your spray solution was probably lower--compared 50/50 skim milk.

 

[redlaser]

I don't have any experience using milk, but it still seems like the fat would inhibit bacillus in serenade.
The main mode of actions seem to be changing the plants surface to be uninhabitable by the pm, either changing ph or for instance mineral oil in veg to smother spores.
There could be more to milk than fat, just not something I've looked into extensively

 

[Guido88]

Eager2

I sympathize with your problems. I have had PM in both indoor and outdoor grows and currently I am located in a very humid coastal area. I have also have tried the many products/fixes with no real benefit from them.

Couple of suggestions: Convert to a sealed room for your next run after you sterilize and sanitize your room. Get a dehumidifier, c02 & heating/cooling equipment. Bleach wash the entire room and equipment then use an negative ion generator to further sterilize the room.

On the next run keep day & night temps above 70 degrees. Medicropper on Youtube pointed this out and it works like a charm. Zero PM even in grow areas that have had the problem in the past. I now stay at 75 degrees minimum.

Go easy on the ferts. Too much weakens the plant and makes them more vulnerable.

Your current crop and finished buds will have PM no matter what you do. Mildew is not healthy to consume in any form. IMHO I will kill any and all runs that have PM.
Painful I know….

No doubt there will be other opinions on this but for me the above has 100% eliminated all PM in my grow.

Best of luck

Guido88

 

[brown_thumb]

What about powdered milk?

 

[Eager2Grow]

I dont think pm is your problem.
You water at 1.4ec ph 5.7 and only get runoff every three days, if im reading your other thread correctly.
I bet medium ph is crazy low locking out P.

That is what I do. Others will swear you never need to check runoff, but that is only if you are an expert, and feed multiple times a day. If it dries out, you get salt buildup. i have fed 600 PPM and had 2500 PPM runoff, when I did not check for weeks. My best grow ever, I micro managed the runoff of each plant. That 2500 PPM runoff was 4.7 PH feeding 6.0 PH.

So it seems this is at least part of my problem. I gave half nutrients which was about 485 ppm, the run off reads about 2,200 ppm.

I guess I need to flush the medium. I am going to mix up a third to half strength and put about ten litres through each plant and see if that solves the issue. Am I going about this correctly?

 

[HqFarms]

So it seems this is at least part of my problem. I gave half nutrients which was about 485 ppm, the run off reads about 2,200 ppm.

I guess I need to flush the medium. I am going to mix up a third to half strength and put about ten litres through each plant and see if that solves the issue. Am I going about this correctly?

No. Since you are running coco you can't messure ppm of runoff. You have to do a slurry test.

That's not the cause of your problem though. Pm is environment related and/or you are tracking it in from a outside source

 

[Eager2Grow]

What is a slurry test?

I may have PM, there is a good chance I do. However, PM doesn't really explain some of the leaf damage I have been experiencing, it seems that nute lockout is a better explanation for that.

 

[Wendull C.]

Nute lock out and PM are too very different maladies.

 

[Eager2Grow]

^ I never conflated the two maladies my friend. One reason I have been hesitant to think I am suffering from PM is that I seem to be suffering a large amount of leaf damage with minimal PM compared to most photos of PM which show otherwise healthy leaves absolutely covered with the shit.

I am not 100% sure whether I have a little bit of PM or not, I lean towards thinking I do. But, whether I have it or not, a relatively mild dose of PM in itself doesn't really explain the damage that my lower leaves have been copping.

 

[HqFarms]

^ I never conflated the two maladies my friend. One reason I have been hesitant to think I am suffering from PM is that I seem to be suffering a large amount of leaf damage with minimal PM compared to most photos of PM which show otherwise healthy leaves absolutely covered with the shit.

I am not 100% sure whether I have a little bit of PM or not, I lean towards thinking I do. But, whether I have it or not, a relatively mild dose of PM in itself doesn't really explain the damage that my lower leaves have been copping.

You can be experiencing pm because your plant isn't healthy and not able to fight it off. I finally took the time to read this whole thread and realized you need to change the title if you are convinced it's not pm mostly. They are very over fed. I am not the best with words so look up slurry tests. There is a thread on here about it.

 

[hyposomniac]

All imo, friendly advice not expert..
I would take a couple of the leaves you suspect have pm, put them in a ziploc bag w a spitball of moist paper and put it in a warm place.. It should explode w unmistakable pm.
But i'm not really seeing pm in your pictures. Still be proactive.. Serenade is good.

Also its probably true that the slurry test will give you more accurate picture..and there are a couple methods outlined on cannas website, and another one using syringes which helped me.
However you dont always need an accurate picture to know somethings off.
You're feeding at a ph that is almost too low, then youre getting evaporation and build up.
Cannas site also outlines a method for flushing a medium.. Ec .65 i beliecve was thier advice. Some good troubleshooting articles there but scattered around.

How are the plants? They seem ok aside from some gnarly leaves..?

 

[Eager2Grow]

You can be experiencing pm because your plant isn't healthy and not able to fight it off. I finally took the time to read this whole thread and realized you need to change the title if you are convinced it's not pm mostly. They are very over fed. I am not the best with words so look up slurry tests. There is a thread on here about it.

I am not sure how to change the title. I wouldn't say I am convinced I don't have to deal with PM in flower, it just seems as though that is not my only issue.

All imo, friendly advice not expert..
I would take a couple of the leaves you suspect have pm, put them in a ziploc bag w a spitball of moist paper and put it in a warm place.. It should explode w unmistakable pm.
But i'm not really seeing pm in your pictures. Still be proactive.. Serenade is good.

That is a really good idea! Thanks.

Also its probably true that the slurry test will give you more accurate picture..and there are a couple methods outlined on cannas website, and another one using syringes which helped me.
However you dont always need an accurate picture to know somethings off.
You're feeding at a ph that is almost too low, then youre getting evaporation and build up.
Cannas site also outlines a method for flushing a medium.. Ec .65 i beliecve was thier advice. Some good troubleshooting articles there but scattered around.

I will do some reading on this slurry method.

How are the plants? They seem ok aside from some gnarly leaves..?

They are still kicking along, the main issue apart from the gnarly leaves is that the bud sites are developing really poorly, things are shaping up for a very sub par yield. I am hoping that things will improve in this respect once I get the medium/nutes sorted out.