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top of the heap to third world status in one generation

moose eater

Well-known member
And DeSantis just signed a bill into law in Florida no longer requiring a unanimous vote from a jury for a death penalty.

Perhaps we'll end up really fortunate and see him subjected one day to his own excesses?
 

audiohi

Well-known member
Veteran
And, although the U.S. and Florida Supreme Court rulings have determined it is unconstitutional to execute defendants in rape cases...

Florida lawmakers pass bill to allow death penalty for sexual battery on children​


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moose eater

Well-known member
And, although the U.S. and Florida Supreme Court rulings have determined it is unconstitutional to execute defendants in rape cases...

Florida lawmakers pass bill to allow death penalty for sexual battery on children​


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That's one place where my penchant for proper punishment from a personal vantage point as a former family member of a victim splits from my view of the State's role in such cases.

If I take it upon myself to express or engage in delivery of 'instant karma' in such a case, I'm eligible to pay my dues, especially if my assessment of facts is wrong.

If the system executes an innocent person, no one goes to prison for manslaughter or murder.

I've testified for years re. the many proposed death penalty legislations in Alaska over the past 45 years (we haven't had a death penalty here in a LONG time), that if every prosecutor/DA, judge, and juror in a death penalty case signed a waiver agreeing to spend the maximum time allowable in prison for voluntary manslaughter, with no 'good time' off, the MAXIMUM allowable time in prison, then they can have my support in pursuing such a sentencing option in some cases.

Otherwise, it's just another opportunity for immunity for people making extreme choices and not having to put their own nuts on the line for it.
 
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RobFromTX

Well-known member
What the hell does a bill targeting rapists have to do with trans people. Good grief audi youre all over the place. Have you ever even known any rape victims? Its a very dramatic thing. Trans rights are a whole different matter. I wouldn't give a bucket of piss for the future of a serial rapist, much less one that targets kids.
 

moose eater

Well-known member
What the hell does a bill targeting rapists have to do with trans people. Good grief audi youre all over the place. Have you ever even known any rape victims? Its a very dramatic thing. Trans rights are a whole different matter. I wouldn't give a bucket of piss for the future of a serial rapist, much less one that targets kids.
I knew a fellow who was wrongly convicted of homosexual rape up here a little over 40 years ago, in a conservative courtroom, where some passively insisted he feel remorse for being a self-avowed homosexual/bisexual, in addition to their perceived indignation that he was in his early 40s at that time, and he'd lived a hippie lifestyle with folks in the desert down in southern California, as a Dead Head into lots of liquid acid.

In fact, he was in possession of a number of minimally diluted sizable vials (eye dropper bottles) of liquid acid when I first met him here in the early 1980s.

In my opinion, his conviction was more or less the result of not wallowing in self-contempt for the over-zealous and 'self-righteous' jury who seemed, especially in that time, to believe that anyone who'd lived his lifestyle ought to be repentant more so than he was, just for being who and what he was..

He also didn't appear for his trial in stereotypical conformist or conservative attire, instead appearing as he most often had been encountered when I'd see him on the street in the University/College Rd. area, with his hair all frizzed into some Astro Boy half-afro like Bozo the Clown, balding on top and everything, in a one-piece Air Force jump suit, with Keds sneakers.

Blue was the classic example of the various components that contribute to a conviction in courts, where facts are not the only thing an often inherently biased jury bases decisions on.

Blue went down proud of who and what he was, but he went down hard, nonetheless.

There's definitely an overlap at times, some places more so than others, of extreme outcomes in cases of rape and extreme outcomes in cases of those who live nonconventional lifestyles.
 

RobFromTX

Well-known member
I knew a fellow who was wrongly convicted of homosexual rape up here a little over 40 years ago, in a conservative courtroom, where some passively insisted he feel remorse for being a self-avowed homosexual/bisexual, in addition to their perceived indignation that he was in his early 40s at that time, and he'd lived a hippie lifestyle with folks in the desert down in southern California, as a Dead Head into lots of liquid acid.

In fact, he was in possession of a number of minimally diluted sizable vials (eye dropper bottles) of liquid acid when I first met him here in the early 1980s.

In my opinion, his conviction was more or less the result of not wallowing in self-contempt for the over-zealous and 'self-righteous' jury who seemed, especially in that time, to believe that anyone who'd lived his lifestyle ought to be repentant more so than he was, just for being who and what he was..

He also didn't appear for his trial in stereotypical conformist or conservative attire, instead appearing as he most often had been encountered when I'd see him on the street in the University/College Rd. area, with his hair all frizzed into some Astro Boy half-afro like Bozo the Clown, balding on top and everything, in a one-piece Air Force jump suit, with Keds sneakers.

Blue was the classic example of the various components that contribute to a conviction in courts, where facts are not the only thing an often inherently biased jury bases decisions on.

Blue went down proud of who and what he was, but he went down hard, nonetheless.

There's definitely an overlap at times, some places more so than others, of extreme outcomes in cases of rape and extreme outcomes in cases of those who live nonconventional lifestyles.
Cases like that are very rare though. I take a hard line on it. I grew up with a woman who goes to counseling three days a week, takes antidepressants. Hell, she cant even stand in the middle of a room with more than two people. She told me one time years ago she wished the guy had just killed her. Shes working on it though. They should be able to prove their innocence like anyone else, and a death penalty seems a bit much for MOST cases, but i wouldn't miss them. They definitely shouldnt be getting the mediocre sentencing they get now. 5 years, 10 years, thats nothing. I should probably note the guy responsible is a repeat offender and far from being a conservative. Just thought id mention that seeing as how some folks on here are trying to make a theory of linking republicans to rape. Thats just silly. Epstein aside thats not the reality of the problem. I read all the time about what happens in some of those native communities in Alaska
 

moose eater

Well-known member
Cases like that are very rare though. I take a hard line on it. I grew up with a woman who goes to counseling three days a week, takes antidepressants. Hell, she cant even stand in the middle of a room with more than two people. She told me one time years ago she wished the guy had just killed her. Shes working on it though. They should be able to prove their innocence like anyone else, and a death penalty seems a bit much for MOST cases, but i wouldn't miss them. They definitely shouldnt be getting the mediocre sentencing they get now. 5 years, 10 years, thats nothing. I should probably note the guy responsible is a repeat offender and far from being a conservative. Just thought id mention that seeing as how some folks on here are trying to make a theory of linking republicans to rape. Thats just silly. Epstein aside thats not the reality of the problem. I read all the time about what happens in some of those native communities in Alaska
I more than completely understand the long-term effects of being a victim to sexual assault, childhood physical assault and more.

But the prevalence of bias as expressed by juries in this Country are not a limited issue.

I've served on grand juries where the cop stated he had pictures on a disk as evidence but didn't think he needed to bring them.(!!!!) An assumption that we'd all just nod our heads in agreement with him because of his badge and uniform??!!

The victim denied the cop's story, the defendant denied the cops story, and a former cop on the grand jury with me, sitting immediately next to me, stated the cop, in his very experienced opinion, was lying; that if he'd actually -had- all of that evidence, he;'d have brought it.

Is it likely the victim was lying to protect the perp? Yep.

But juries and grand juries are supposed to base decisions on facts and evidence, not beliefs or perceptions of 'maybes'.

The grand jury's a result in that case? They played 'consolation prize' with the defendant and gave him a lesser charge.

The defendant was an Alaska Native, a group which has noteworthy over-representation in our prisons and jails here, by the way.

I've known of more than a few cases that SHOULD have left a serious and conscientious jury scratching their heads. Biases and prejudices are anything but dead in this Nation.
 

moose eater

Well-known member

RobFromTX

Well-known member
I more than completely understand the long-term effects of being a victim to sexual assault, childhood physical assault and more.

But the prevalence of bias as expressed by juries in this Country are not a limited issue.

I've served on grand juries where the cop stated he had pictures on a disk as evidence but didn't think he needed to bring them.(!!!!) An assumption that we'd all just nod our heads in agreement with him because of his badge and uniform??!!

The victim denied the cop's story, the defendant denied the cops story, and a former cop on the grand jury with me, sitting immediately next to me, stated the cop, in his very experienced opinion, was lying; that if he'd actually -had- all of that evidence, he;'d have brought it.

Is it likely the victim was lying to protect the perp? Yep.

But juries and grand juries are supposed to base decisions on facts and evidence, not beliefs or perceptions of 'maybes'.

The grand jury's a result in that case? They played 'consolation prize' with the defendant and gave him a lesser charge.

The defendant was an Alaska Native, a group which has noteworthy over-representation in our prisons and jails here, by the way.

I've known of more than a few cases that SHOULD have left a serious and conscientious jury scratching their heads. Biases and prejudices are anything but dead in this Nation.
Cops are a part of the problem too. Theres a world of them down here who've slithered out of assault charges because of their authority status. Thats just my stance on it though. I cant tell you how many feminists have gave me shit for watching family guy, which on rare occasions makes a joke of the issue. Reality is a whole different matter though
 

moose eater

Well-known member
Cops are a part of the problem too. Theres a world of them down here who've slithered out of assault charges because of their authority status. Thats just my stance on it though. I cant tell you how many feminists have gave me shit for watching family guy, which on rare occasions makes a joke of the issue. Reality is a whole different matter though
My now-deceased father, before becoming an Ortho Drug Salesman (yep, after he died his samples storage cabinets later, for a young hippie, became a treasure trove), worked for a time as a combination Probation Officer and Deputy Sherriff in Wisconsin, near a Menominee Indian reservation, near Shawano. He would at times engage in horrendous domestic violence. Horrendous. And in that era, many times his colleagues would regard it as a "private family matter". And I'm talking offenses that went well beyond a black eye here or there.

I also worked in -numerous- places in Alaska as a mental health clinician, and part of that job often entailed working in tandem with LEOs. "Good ol' Boy network/system' is more than an appropriate label; closed off from outside review or criticism as a system in most places, self-perpetuating, self-reinforcing for inappropriate, racist, chauvinistic belief systems, immunity or distanced from answering for poor choices and more.

The once-chief of police in one well-known location confided to my MH Director that he was worried about a rift in his department, considering they all attended staff meetings armed, and there was such divide and serious in-fighting at that place, he worried about the potential for an in-house shootout at times. No exaggeration or bullshit..

Same place ran off a Black female officer, nice woman who I would sometimes shoot class III weapons with at the shooting range there. Black and female looked good on their overly funded, overly staffed force's paperwork, but to actually have a Black woman on their force.... well... that was a step too far for some of them.

I could tell stories.

I eventually developed my own independent policy of not calling LE to a suicide situation, as I viewed it as likely increasing the probability of carnage.

And yes, sometimes complaints are amplified or exaggerated, but I believe in my experience (and I have had personal experiences with such behaviors), there's far fewer of those than there are legitimate occurrences.

What we joke about privately or publicly provides a feed-back loop for ourselves, making a statement for ourselves and those near us as to what is acceptable or 'normal.'. Not nearly as benign as some think.
 
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RobFromTX

Well-known member
My now-deceased father, before becoming an Ortho Drug Salesman (yep, after he died his samples storage cabinets later, for a young hippie, became a treasure trove), worked for a time as a combination Probation Officer and Deputy Sherriff in Wisconsin, near a Menominee Indian reservation, near Shawano. He would at times engage in horrendous domestic violence. Horrendous. And in that era, many times his colleagues would regard it as a "private family matter". And I'm talking offenses that went well beyond a black eye here or there.

I also worked in -numerous- places in Alaska as a mental health clinician, and part of that job often entailed working in tandem with LEOs. "Good ol' Boy network/system' is more than an appropriate label; closed off from outside review or criticism as a system in most places, self-perpetuating, self-reinforcing for inappropriate, racist, chauvinistic belief systems, immunity or distanced from answering for poor choices and more.

The once-chief of police in one well-known location confided to my MH Director that he was worried about a rift in his department, considering they all attended staff meetings armed, and there was such divide and serious in-fighting at that place, he worried about the potential for an in-house shootout at times. No exaggeration or bullshit..

Same place ran off a Black female officer, nice woman who I would sometimes shoot class III weapons with at the shooting range there. Black and female looked good on their overly funded, overly staffed force's paperwork, but to actually have a Black woman on their force.... well... that was a step too far for some of them.

I could tell stories.

I eventually developed my own independent policy of not calling LE to a suicide situation, as I viewed it as likely increasing the probability of carnage.

And yes, sometimes complaints are amplified or exaggerated, but I believe in my experience (and I have had personal experiences with such behaviors), there's far fewer of those than there are legitimate occurrences.

What we joke about privately or publicly provides a feed-back loop for ourselves, making a statement for ourselves and those near us as to what is acceptable or 'normal.'. Not nearly as benign as some think.
There certainly wasnt a lot of black folks up there when i lived there. It was kind of a culture shock for me to be honest. At Chugack high school there was only one black student, maybe two hispanics and i dont even remember any natives attending. Not that i ever saw any racism thrown against them, I didnt, but i could definitely see it being a different story in the more rural areas. I lived in eagle river right outside Anchorangeles. Isnt that what you called it one time :D
 

moose eater

Well-known member
There certainly wasnt a lot of black folks up there when i lived there. It was kind of a culture shock for me to be honest. At Chugack high school there was only one black student, maybe two hispanics and i dont even remember any natives attending. Not that i ever saw any racism thrown against them, I didnt, but i could definitely see it being a different story in the more rural areas. I lived in eagle river right outside Anchorangeles. Isnt that what you called it one time :D
'Los Anchorage' is the preferred moniker for the place.

We used to joke about a 'new' Anchorage tourism slogan that might've read, "Visit Anchorage; just a 20-minute drive from beautiful Alaska."

And yes, when I first arrived in Alaska, the Black population was fairly limited, with the exception of military posts or bases, which you'd have had 2 near Eagle River; Elmendorf (AF and a SAC base at one point) and Fort Richardson.

For years the Alaska Native population has scored as being some place around 17% of the State's population but has been about 42% of our incarcerated populations. Lots could be elaborated on this point.

I was a board member of a well-known State chapter of a specific civil liberties/rights organization at one point, spending 1-1/2 to 1-2/3 terms on it, resigning in protest when some shit occurred that defied my sense of our purpose and decency.

During that time, I also took part in a number of online civil liberties groups, took part in activism, helped to arrange legal representation for folks who were screwed over by the unconstitutional recriminalization vote in 1990 and forward that illegally turned the 1975 Ravin Decision up-side-down, and lasted 11 years, etc.

It was during that time I corresponded online with a Black professor of justice in a specific forum I attended, and I recall him saying, "The snow isn't the only thing that's lily white where you are." and at that time, he was more or less correct.

Racism is alive and well here. We're a hard-core Trump state, complete with rampant delusions, despite the voter population here being about 70% registered Non-Partisan/Independent. Not a new thing that many humanoids prefer to see themselves as different than they actually are. Clarity in mirrors can be a punishing thing for those who avoid serious self-analysis or introspection.

Had a good friend once upon a time. He was brought over from Japan to Interior Alaska at age 5. His mother was very well respected locally as a hard worker, honest, talented and more. She died of rapidly progressing cancer a number of years ago. She was a phenomenon of humanity in a good way, too. Shame.

My friend recalled frequently being tracked through quick-marts and stores by security and owners, who often were assuming he was Native, due to his looks. Not that any of that made it OK.

People who are subjected to similarly sourced mistreatment often become brothers in arms, so to speak (my enemy's enemy is my friend and other similar policy as the US government has engaged in for hundreds of years in foreign policy), and in our local schools, where there were a notable number of Native families, he befriended many young Native kids in school.

He could empathize with their plight in the struggles involving racism, because by virtue of his appearance, he was often subjected to the same nonsense, by folks who assumed he was Native.
 
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Gry

Well-known member
Veteran
Roy Tuckman also known as Roy of Hollywood passed away on 4/20.
He had an overnight show on KPFK for over forty years
He had the most interesting and informative of programs.
He was a blessing in life that I shall not forget.
 

flylowgethigh

Non-growing Lurker
ICMag Donor
Thread should read 'into a shithole in one term'.

The sign in the back of this picture won't have english for long... good job joe.

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