top of the heap to third world status in one generation

[Mengsk]

I admit I'm not good with following or discussing politics or current events foreign affairs even. I liked Obama as in I felt he was intelligent charming could speak well agreed with what he said etc. However my adult lifetime only had "a couple presidents" - Bush and Bush (and Bush), then Clinton and Clinton, Obama, now Trump. So it is not the most obvious monarchy you have ever seen. But it is not an election or a democracy in my view. Instead royal families or wealthy elite pretty similar to others wherever you look. The government fights with each other but the senate and house are really in alliance with each other where the American public is on the other side, the opponents or the enemy.

 

[Mengsk]

packerfan79 true it is all relative. I am grateful that I have shoes to wear and that my neighbourhood has no violent crime. Now do I "owe" that to an army soldier who was killing people to "fight for my freedom?" Honestly I'm not so sure about that. It's where the whole killing for oil thing comes into play. I know we use oil to keep the heater going and lights on but I don't know how much oil is actually required for that. Even if we are at the height of standard of living there will still be people at the top of luxury and people suffering. If technology and quality of life improve for some but others are still poor in the dirt then the divide or separation gap is getting larger. Bigger difference from a robot mansion to a dirt shack than a brick shack to a dirt shack. Theoretically speaking the quality of life for some can keep climbing to reach Pharaoh status like Ra in the movie Stargate but the very bottom population is always going to be at the same level quality of life wise. Even this isn't totally accurate because technology helps the lowest rungs of society but it is difficult to model a dynamic like this. Globally or locally, where is the quality of life improving, everywhere? Not only the gap or distribution but also the % and absolute # of people living at each income level. Even on the best day as you said someone can complain about something. If you pass the safety inspection it kind of sucks to hear but that just means you can add another new item to the safety inspection for next time. Always room for improvement.

 

[packerfan79]

I admit I'm not good with following or discussing politics or current events foreign affairs even. I liked Obama as in I felt he was intelligent charming could speak well agreed with what he said etc. However my lifetime only had "a couple presidents" - Bush and Bush (and Bush), then Clinton and Clinton, Obama, now Trump. So it is not the most obvious monarchy you have ever seen. But it is not an election or a democracy in my view. Just royal families or wealthy elite, pretty similar to any elite powerful group wherever you look. The government fights with each other but the senate and house are really in alliance with each other where the American public is on the other side, the opponents or the enemy.

The more the different houses of government work together, the worse you will be. The collusion of government has lead to a more powerful and oppressive government that we now have.

I get that you are a fan of big government. What you fail to realize, is your preferred political party won't always be in power. When your preferred political party is out of power, the opposition party will use said power in ways you don't like. The only way to prevent this is to limit the size and power of the government. In reality irrelevant of political leanings, limited government, limits the government's influence on your life.

The office of the president was never intended to be as powerful as it has become. The checks and balances of the 3 houses of government are all but nonexistent.

 

[Klompen]

The title of this thread is quite interesting. Completely leaving any political debate out. We live in the most safe and prosperous time in history.

If you make 30k a year you ARE in the 1%globally. Historically speaking of you make said 30k you are in the. 01%.

Most people walk around with a phone that has more computing capabilities than the computers NASA used to send a man to the moon.

We have cars that can break on their own. Within a relatively short time driverless cars will be a reality.

I get that political polarization may be quite extreme. That being said, the world wide murder rate is lower than any time in history. The world has never been safer.


Should we mabey take a step back and show some appreciation or at least acknowledgement, that global poverty has been cut in half in the last decade.

I guess we are spoiled, and its human nature to complain. In reality life has never been better.

The lowest murder rate claims don't include the deaths from industrialized warfare. The wealth gap globally is also at least as bad as it was in the Gilded Age and quite possibly even worse. We've been living on the verge of the total destruction of our species from engineered germs to nuclear arsenals. The USA has been mass murdering millions of people over the last few decades to prop up the fiat dollar as the world standard currency and that scheme is falling apart right now. Small business is the weakest its ever been in my lifetime, and over 60% of Americans can't financially survive a $500 emergency. The problems of the world right now go way beyond complaining. You probably live comfortably enough to not really have a feel for how the world really is for most people, but as a homeless person I can tell you that even here in the states things are bad and getting a lot worse.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Anybody who saw the Cold War shouldn't be able to say we weren't safer before the bomb.

Are we including war, genocide, preventable diseases, starvation, or human trafficking related deaths in the murder category?

I'm pretty sure more people are showing up every day.

Exponentially.

I'm not seeing safe prosperity.

 

[packerfan79]

The lowest murder rate claims don't include the deaths from industrialized warfare. The wealth gap globally is also at least as bad as it was in the Gilded Age and quite possibly even worse. We've been living on the verge of the total destruction of our species from engineered germs to nuclear arsenals. The USA has been mass murdering millions of people over the last few decades to prop up the fiat dollar as the world standard currency and that scheme is falling apart right now. Small business is the weakest its ever been in my lifetime, and over 60% of Americans can't financially survive a $500 emergency. The problems of the world right now go way beyond complaining. You probably live comfortably enough to not really have a feel for how the world really is for most people, but as a homeless person I can tell you that even here in the states things are bad and getting a lot worse.

How much of what you have stated above, is directly due to the weakness in people. I don't know if it's the media, or the education system, but something is convincing people that in the time of the greatest success people have no appreciation or respect for those who struggled (real struggle) to improve the world before we came.

60% don't have 500$, but I will bet you 100$ they have a 500$ phone in their pocket. I could cut 500$ a month from my expense if I had no car payment ( which is only 30 days away). I could cut another 350 if I got rid of internet, and cellphone. So, In reality it's not that people can't handle a 500$ emergency, they choose other stuff over that security.

The U.S. has had some shady shit in war, but i would bet those wars save a multitude of lives compared to how many are lost. I am not justifying, but it's the reality.

I think you really should try to be thankful for what you have. We all should. My focus is on the good things in my life. Family, and the ability to feed, clothe, and house them. I fall short on a regular basis, but I don't succumb to depression and regret for long. We are blessed to be alive and live in the freest country in the world.

I guess it has to do with the fact that I literally am lucky to be alive. I was on the verge of needing a blood transfusion in 1980, during the height of the AIDS epidemic. Their was no way to test the blood supply, at that time. I was days away and miraculously I got better ( i am sure many here will call me stupid, but I don't care) I can only credit God. Everyday I get to spend with my kids is a great day. Everyday I get to go to my crappy job is a blessing. Every day i wake up is another opportunity to live a life that almost didn't happen. my mom was 17 when she got pregnant, and my grandmother told her to have an abortion.

I hope you find something that gives you hope. You seem to be a good guy, maybe just been dealt a shitty hand in life. If you ever need to talk pm me.

 

[packerfan79]

Anybody who saw the Cold War shouldn't be able to say we weren't safer before the bomb.

Are we including war, genocide, preventable diseases, starvation, or human trafficking related deaths in the murder category?

I'm pretty sure more people are showing up every day.

Exponentially.

I'm not seeing safe prosperity.

Don't tell me what I shouldn't be able to say. Not you or any other person has the right to censor me, or anyone else.

All those things were much worse, in the past. The plague killed 1/3 of the European population. Small pox, malaria, Aids, slavery, potato famine, hundreds of other tragic events were worse.

You are welcome to think you have it worse than generations past.

You are welcome to wallow in pity. As for me , I am grateful to be alive . Attitude is everything.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

I think it's a little short sighted to think malaria, famine, AIDS, or slavery have vanished.

Most people have it pretty rough.

If you live in a gated community and have since birth I totally understand your attitude.

 

[Mengsk]

packerfan I agree with you though I'm not sure I'm a fan of government. As a kid in the idealistic sense I wanted other people to make sure the roads were clean and safe and people had drinking water and the hospital if they were sick. But I don't know how that translates to the modern government today. You are suggesting that more people organizing has more power against the government, and also that a more organized a larger government has more power against the people. Both make sense. So I guess I would say less smaller government not necessarily a fighting government, and more of the public in agreement. I don't have experience as a government worker or in politics. Because arguing about political power or corruption is one thing but the actual day to day of government work like maintaining infrastructure or answering phones or finding terrorists bad guys is a real full time job. It is especially unrewarding if you are trying to do good in an imperfect system with crooks on one side and the public throwing rotten tomatoes at you on the other.

This is philosophical theoretical what have you. Because the actual pentagon employs a lot of people to do stuff now. Talking about it online and all the real world activity are two different things.

If our government collapsed tomorrow I don't think I would be worried about invasion. My knowledge is relatively naive where I do not know what function the government serves or what would happen if "it collapsed" tomorrow. I don't mean city workers I mean how congress hardly ever meets and votes on legislative stuff. I imagine some may have become so proficient at politics and legislature there may not be much "human" left. Only intended as a joke but this would be like the reptilian Illuminati, motives are so skewed not really what we associate with human or humanitarian qualities. But I don't think our government is worried about that either. Because whoever it is that wants power over the public, they are all huddled together with the tanks and missiles planning how to screw over the American people and stay in power. It isn't really missiles. There is still physical threat and war going on but the psychological warfare tricking people plays a large role. Get people to believe a certain thing or a certain way, stay busy in the rat race, etc..

 

[packerfan79]

I think it's a little short sighted to think malaria, famine, AIDS, or slavery have vanished.

Most people have it pretty rough.

If you live in a gated community and have since birth I totally understand your attitude.

I have never lived in a gated community. Shit, I spent my half my childhood in a trailer park. I spent 18-22 in the ghetto. Now I live in an average neighborhood for my area. It's quite, except when the 2-3 weeks after the vato nextdoor comes home from prison, or breaks up with his heina. Lol, probably spelled that wrong. I write Spanish as bad as I speak it.
I wouldn't say those things are cured, but they are not a fraction of what they once were.

Come on Mustard, theirs not one thing you are thankful for?
The weeds pretty fucking good now.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

I have plenty more to be thankful for than many.

That doesn't halt my concern for billions.

I do like the weed.

And hyena isn't used frequently so I think anybody gets a pass on that one.

:friends:

 

[packerfan79]

I have plenty more to be thankful for than many.

That doesn't halt my concern for billions.

I do like the weed.

And hyena isn't used frequently so I think anybody gets a pass on that one.

:friends:

 

[Dirt Bag]

... Lol, probably spelled that wrong. I write Spanish as bad as I speak it.

(Pssst.. it ain't just your Spanish amigo!)

 

[Klompen]

How much of what you have stated above, is directly due to the weakness in people. I don't know if it's the media, or the education system, but something is convincing people that in the time of the greatest success people have no appreciation or respect for those who struggled (real struggle) to improve the world before we came.

60% don't have 500$, but I will bet you 100$ they have a 500$ phone in their pocket. I could cut 500$ a month from my expense if I had no car payment ( which is only 30 days away). I could cut another 350 if I got rid of internet, and cellphone. So, In reality it's not that people can't handle a 500$ emergency, they choose other stuff over that security.

This is such clear evidence that you don't really live in the same situation as most Americans. I don't even have a phone. I know plenty of people who don't have smart phones, or have cheap ones if they do. Many of them use the smart phones they do have to compare prices in stores so they can spend less money. You're living in total fantasy land if you think reckless spending alone accounts for the austerity that much of America is facing right now. In fact, what you're saying runs contrary completely to how economies actually work in a capitalist society. If people don't spend spend spend, the economy crashes. Most people have rent(or mortgage), car payments, utility bills, medical expenses, food expenses, service costs(like plumbers, electricians, etc). Just because we hypothetically have access to a great level of comfort in our society doesn't mean we actually do have access to it in practice. The comforts of modern society don't justify the continual funneling of money upward toward the wealthiest people. Not just that, but its a disastrous way to view society. People need money so they can spend, and people need to spend for the industry and commerce to thrive, and industry and commerce must thrive for the currency to thrive. Its all tied together, and right now this country is very plagued with people who don't seem to understand that fact.

The U.S. has had some shady shit in war, but i would bet those wars save a multitude of lives compared to how many are lost. I am not justifying, but it's the reality.

Seriously? How many lives did the Vietnam War save? How many lives did our invasion of Panama save? How many lives did we save by nuking two civilian populations in a country that was already trying to surrender? How many lives are we saving in Yemen right now? How many lives did we save by starving 600,000 children to death in Iraq during the 1990s? How many lives did we save in Somalia? How many lives have we saved by deliberately starting the first Gulf War by using a PR firm to manipulate congress? How many lives did we save by installing a military dictatorship in Korea and killing 30,000 civilians on one island just because they objected to it? Do you even have the slightest clue who your government is killing and why?

I think you really should try to be thankful for what you have. We all should. My focus is on the good things in my life. Family, and the ability to feed, clothe, and house them. I fall short on a regular basis, but I don't succumb to depression and regret for long. We are blessed to be alive and live in the freest country in the world.

Who are you to say what I should be thankful for? Right now I have no money, my car got wrecked and I am fighting to get the insurer of the at-fault driver to cover it. I need surgery I can't get right now because I can't be out of commission since right now I do all my labor(like I can't just call a plumber or an electrician, or take my car to a mechanic. If I can't do it myself, it doesn't get done). My child is traumatized by police officers after they threw us out on the streets last year. I don't have access to herb right now even though I have many health issues that are fairly debilitating without it. I haven't been able to go visit any family in over a year. I also have a young child I care for, and for whom I struggle to provide even though I work my ass off to the point where its making my sick. I have plenty of things I am thankful for, but I'm not going to start pretending everything is wonderful because I have a few decent things going for me among an even bigger pile of things not going well for me.

I guess it has to do with the fact that I literally am lucky to be alive. I was on the verge of needing a blood transfusion in 1980, during the height of the AIDS epidemic. Their was no way to test the blood supply, at that time. I was days away and miraculously I got better ( i am sure many here will call me stupid, but I don't care) I can only credit God. Everyday I get to spend with my kids is a great day. Everyday I get to go to my crappy job is a blessing. Every day i wake up is another opportunity to live a life that almost didn't happen. my mom was 17 when she got pregnant, and my grandmother told her to have an abortion.

I hope you find something that gives you hope. You seem to be a good guy, maybe just been dealt a shitty hand in life. If you ever need to talk pm me.

We certainly have some different views on things but its good you didn't get HIV. Its good that you can see the positive things in life. I think its really important to keep sight of the good things, but I also think its really worth understanding context and perspective are vital. After all, when your entire body is on fire, having enough water to put out 90% of it just isn't good enough. Its not ingratitude to see real problems for what they are.

 

[packerfan79]

This is such clear evidence that you don't really live in the same situation as most Americans. I don't even have a phone. I know plenty of people who don't have smart phones, or have cheap ones if they do. Many of them use the smart phones they do have to compare prices in stores so they can spend less money. You're living in total fantasy land if you think reckless spending alone accounts for the austerity that much of America is facing right now. In fact, what you're saying runs contrary completely to how economies actually work in a capitalist society. If people don't spend spend spend, the economy crashes. Most people have rent(or mortgage), car payments, utility bills, medical expenses, food expenses, service costs(like plumbers, electricians, etc). Just because we hypothetically have access to a great level of comfort in our society doesn't mean we actually do have access to it in practice. The comforts of modern society don't justify the continual funneling of money upward toward the wealthiest people. Not just that, but its a disastrous way to view society. People need money so they can spend, and people need to spend for the industry and commerce to thrive, and industry and commerce must thrive for the currency to thrive. Its all tied together, and right now this country is very plagued with people who don't seem to understand that fact.



Seriously? How many lives did the Vietnam War save? How many lives did our invasion of Panama save? How many lives did we save by nuking two civilian populations in a country that was already trying to surrender? How many lives are we saving in Yemen right now? How many lives did we save by starving 600,000 children to death in Iraq during the 1990s? How many lives did we save in Somalia? How many lives have we saved by deliberately starting the first Gulf War by using a PR firm to manipulate congress? How many lives did we save by installing a military dictatorship in Korea and killing 30,000 civilians on one island just because they objected to it? Do you even have the slightest clue who your government is killing and why?





Who are you to say what I should be thankful for? Right now I have no money, my car got wrecked and I am fighting to get the insurer of the at-fault driver to cover it. I need surgery I can't get right now because I can't be out of commission since right now I do all my labor(like I can't just call a plumber or an electrician, or take my car to a mechanic. If I can't do it myself, it doesn't get done). My child is traumatized by police officers after they threw us out on the streets last year. I don't have access to herb right now even though I have many health issues that are fairly debilitating without it. I haven't been able to go visit any family in over a year. I also have a young child I care for, and for whom I struggle to provide even though I work my ass off to the point where its making my sick. I have plenty of things I am thankful for, but I'm not going to start pretending everything is wonderful because I have a few decent things going for me among an even bigger pile of things not going well for me.



We certainly have some different views on things but its good you didn't get HIV. Its good that you can see the positive things in life. I think its really important to keep sight of the good things, but I also think its really worth understanding context and perspective are vital. After all, when your entire body is on fire, having enough water to put out 90% of it just isn't good enough. Its not ingratitude to see real problems for what they are.

I am not here to put you down. I just hate to see good people stuck in a mindset that leads to depression and possibly worse. I could tell you a bunch of other bullshit I am/have gone through in my life. That's not going to help me or you. I believe your focus on the negative is a possible cause of many issues. I hope you get things sorted out without to much pain. If I was an uncaring asshole I wouldn't waste my time. In reality for most people I wouldn't waste my time.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

In a capitalists world - Money = Freedom - so most of us run around like blue-ass'ed flies to gain enough of this freedom - to be able to feel like we are free for a while - till we need more of it.

 

[Ringodoggie]

Money isn't everything. I have plenty of money and almost no freedom.

 

[Sertaiz]

a freedom i would like more of is trusting people and working together toward common goals. that is one thing i see "third world" countries doing better than 1st world countries, imo.

once food and shelter needs have been met, we get all sorts of problems with too much time. If we were needed by our friends and neighbors it would create community. rich people in the US dont know their neighbors well or share, help with anything.

The Continuum Concept is a book that changed me. jean leadlow, she lives with a stone age culture below mexico for a while and wrote a book. there is no direct competition, the children enjoy helping and learning, and get to use sharp knives from very young instead of being bubble boy.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

I'm willing to work on a trade there Ringo!

 

[packerfan79]

I have known plenty of people with money who were miserable. I have known people with boatloads of money who committed suicide. In fact suicide is more prevalent in higher income populations. Ironically suicide is a phenomenon of the upper class.