Too Much or too Little nutes DWC

[Illadelph]

HYDROPONICS:

What STRAIN are you growing? Endless Sky
What was the establishing technique? seed
What is the age of your plants? ~3 weeks from germ
What PHASE are the plants in? Seedling/veg
What Technique are you using? DWC
What substrate/medium are you using? hydroton with peat plugs
What is the Reservoir temperature? 96d F (36c)
What Nutrient's are you using? Floranova grow / floralicious plus micro nute
What is the TDS/EC/PPM you are using? ~75ppm
What is the pH of the "Tank"? ~6.0
Are you sure your calibration is correct on your equiptment? Pretty sure
When was your last watering? Not applicable
When was your last feeding change? bumped from 50ppm to 75ppm ~1 week ago

What size bulb are you using? 400w MH
What is the distance to the canopy? ~18"
What is your RH Factor? ~40%
What is the canopy temperature? ~86F
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include flucutaion range) should be constant
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) should be sufficient
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? no
Is your water HARD or SOFT? distilled
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned off of or pinched Trimmed dead lowest leaves after they had died (the 3 fingered leaves below the first set of 5 fingered leaves)
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so, What and When? NO
Are plant's infected with pest's NO

My lower leaves are turning yellow, some having brown spots instead. They are turning crispy and dying. Don't know if this is too much or not enough nutes. They are 3 - 4 inches tall, in the third week from germination. Is 96 degrees too high for my res? if so, how do i bring the temp down? Anyone familliar with floranova products? do they suck or something? I have this problem every time. Maybe not enough micro nutes? I put in one half tsp for about 11 gal. bottle says 1 tsp for every 5 gal. Anyway, check out the pics and let me know if anyone can tell me what is going on.

Also, they are a little pale, dont know if they jsut look that way because of the light. They dont look as pale in the picture as they do in real life





Update: added another tsp of micronutes, bringing it up to 3 quarters of the streangth recomended on teh bottle.

 

[CaptainTrips]

96 degrees is way too hot... how hot is the growroom? Why is the res so hot?

 

[Illadelph]

the grow room is 84-86. I dont know why the res is so hot. Maybe one of my thermometers is wrong but not likely. I'm trying to figure out a way to lower that down. Maybe its from the light? well, obviosly. I dont think the water pump could heat it up that much. I have two airstones in there each from their own pump.

do you think thats what could be wrong with the plants?

some of em are doing alright though. Perked up really healthy looking and shit. Some of the other ones are small and droopy/shriveled. both the good ones and the bad ones are suffering from this problem. Whatever it may be. I have a feeling it might be with the nutes. How many PPMs should plants that size have? any input on the micro nutes situation?

 

[CaptainTrips]

Your PPM seems way to low to me... 3 week plants can pretty much take full strength nutes, at least that has been my experience, but I grow e&f. But you need to get your res temps under control. I don't know if thats the only reason they look bad, but its definetly not helping.

Is your res blocked from the light? Covering it in reflective material will help... but definetly also make sure no light is getting in.

 

[Illadelph]

How many PPMs is full streangth? They are only 3 or 4 inches tall.

 

[thinman]

"I dont think the water pump could heat it up that much". Illadelph....

they are notorius for creating heat. if you can accomodate the grow with a smaller GPH pump, give that a try. turn the pump off for a few hours and check the temps. you can hand water during this time if you need to.

 

[Kr@kEn]

You need to go by plant size for solution strength. But only 75ppm, that's way too low. Try 300ppm and see what happens. Watch you PH more when you use stronger solutions too. CaptainTrips is right about making sure light is blocked from your solution. CaptainTrips is not right about solution strength however, full strength solution would be damaging to plants this small. 300ppm or so at this size should be fine. Once they grow a couple inches then go ahead and start raising the ppms gradually as they grow. Assumming you are using standard nutrient line.
The temps are a bit high as already mentioned. I'd get them down to 80F or lower if possible too. The closer to 90f you get the closer you come to disaster. Use a small ocsillating fan to blow onto the tops of your plants during the light cycle too as this will help keep your plants safe from heat and exercise them as well as encourage tight nodes.

 

[B.C.]

96 Degrees!

96 Degrees!

When things get too hot or too cold some nutes will get locked out. With yer res at that high of a temp Im sure it's possible. If you don't lower it yer prolly gonna end up with root rot anyway. Yer ambient temps are 10 degrees lower than the rez temp. Yes I would think the pump is warming it up. Do what ever ya need ta do to fix it, cuz I don't think it's gonna work like this. later, BC

 

[Illadelph]

word, thanks for all the help everyone. Are you guys sure that 300PPMs isn't too strong for 4" plants? Last round I was burning the shit out of em, and someone told me to lower them, and that their plants were 3 feet tall and only running 700PPMs. And what ever happened to no nutes for first two weeks??? does that not apply to hydro? Sorry if this seems stand-off-ish. I'm not trying to disagree, i'm just trying to make sure i have things right.

also, the disorder is starting from the lower leaves, and moving to the upper leaves, if this direction of movement will indicate anything about the source of the problem

also, in regards to the temperature problem, the plants all have roots that hang down through the bottom of the net pots and just barely reach the water. Do you think at this point it would be alright to unplug the water pump? since it only supplies the drip heads for the drip irrigation system?

also, there is an "ultrasonic fogger" in there too. You think that gives off heat? its just a little thing that vibrates "ultrasonicly"

 

[Illadelph]

I talked to the company that manufactures the cab today, they told me it is most likely the ultra sonic fogger that is heating up the res. so i unplugged it for now. Should I plug it back in?

also, they said that 3-400 ppms was appropriate for 4" plants, so i'm slowly raising up to that. I have yellow and rust spots on most of the plants, starting from the lower leaves and working its way up.

am I doing things right, or have i been mislead?

 

[FreezerBoy]

Part of the problem is, unless everyone agrees on the conversion factor, ppm doesn't really mean anything. At that level I can't imagine it's too strong.

If you've turned off the fogger to go straight DWC, raise water level to within one inch of the netpot. You want to drop your res temps closer to 70º if not lower. Fill some 2 liter soda bottles with water, freeze them and drop a bottle into the res. Rotate as needed. SM-90 or Hydrogaurd can be used if bottles are too much work.

Why distilled water? For the fogger I assume? At any rate you're robbing the plant of magnesium, calcium and other goodies found in tap water. If you don't want to use tap, get some cal-mag.

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

Part of the problem is, unless everyone agrees on the conversion factor, ppm doesn't really mean anything. At that level I can't imagine it's too strong.

If you've turned off the fogger to go straight DWC, raise water level to within one inch of the netpot. You want to drop your res temps closer to 70º if not lower. Fill some 2 liter soda bottles with water, freeze them and drop a bottle into the res. Rotate as needed. SM-90 or Hydrogaurd can be used if bottles are too much work.

Why distilled water? For the fogger I assume? At any rate you're robbing the plant of magnesium, calcium and other goodies found in tap water. If you don't want to use tap, get some cal-mag.

right on.

but, distilled +calmag/sensical is 10x better then tap.

follow this mans advice.

 

[B.C.]

I agree, this is good advice. Hopefully leaving the fogger out of the picture will bring yer temps down. Bringing yer ambient room temps down would help alot too. Btw, Sorry for not gettin back with ya sooner. BC

 

[Illadelph]

word, thank you all so much for the advice. The fogger turned off brought me down to just below 90 degrees in the res. You think i can unplug the water pump too, or do I need water dripping on the starter plugs, even if the roots have begun to touch the water?

also, got some white slime forming on some of the starter plugs, looks like mucus. There is a layer of algea under it, but the slime i have never seen before. Suggestions?

Using distilled water because i thought that i was supposed too. I have hard tap water here. Didn't know about the nutrients in tap water. Will get some cal mag, hopefully its not too late.

 

[B.C.]

hmm...

hmm...

Slime is never good. I think I would mix 2 tables spoons of hydrogen peroxide (3%) to a gal of tap water and take each one to the sink and rinse the slime off, and flush the rocks as best I could. Might be a good idea to change the rez out and scrub it while yer at it. I would get some hydrogaurd asap, until then I think I'd run acouple tbls per gal of peroxide in the rez right with the nutes..... It prolly would be a good idea to shut that pump off. If there's a doubt about not having enough roots, make yer water level higher. I think until ya get the heat down there's gonna be problems. Warm water jus won't hold enough oxygen to keep the nasties from forming. The peroxide will help in that department but it's jus fixin the symptom and not the cure. It's been many years since I've grown in hydro and I've fergotten more than I remember anymore.lol So if anyone can think of somethin that may help in some way, don't be shy, chime on in here. later, BC

 

[ubet28]

Better invest in a chiller.

 

[FreezerBoy]

You think i can unplug the water pump too, or do I need water dripping on the starter plugs, even if the roots have begun to touch the water?

With your temp problems, I'd disconnect the pump (leave it in if it helps in emptying the res) and replace with airpump and airstone(s). This will aerate the water (without heating it) and throw bubbles up to the roots and netpot. For new netpots not yet showing roots, raise water level so the bottom half of the pot is submerged. When roots are long enough, drop water level 1" below netpots.

Bury plugs deeper next time so they're covered with a layer of rocks to prevent algae builup. No clue on the white slime.

 

[Illadelph]

Freezer Boy, I am honored to have you post in my thread. I've been watching your work ever since i was a lurker.

water temps now coming down, 29 degrees celius, which i think is high 80s F. Got some cal mag today and added 1 tea spoon for every galon of water that my reservoir holds. Consequently, the iron in the cal mag fouled up the water pump, which brought my temps down even more. How do i get that pump working again? Do i need it? Roots are well in the water.

Good idea about covering the plugs with hydroton too. Thanks for that one.

hope this is the beggining of a turn around for them plants.

Thank you all so much for your time and help. Please stick around.


Update: (2 days later)

things coming along nicely. Running about 450 ppms, at least one third of that is the cal mag, which i was told at the hydro store that it doesn't really count towards nutrient levels, and is almost imposilbe to over do the cal mag (meaning that you can't burn with it) is that true?

i am going to continue to add veg nutes little by little.

pics for viewing pleasure

 

[Illadelph]

had to BUMP this one because of the update in the previous post with pics and various questions i'm still looking to have answered.

 

[Weedman Herb]

The cal mag has 2 applications 1 for regular use and an accelerated one. You're using the 5ml per Gallon (regular) and that's where you should be. I have cal mag + and it contains some Nitrogen and might burn younguns if applied in excess. I dunno about the unanswered ??s but your plants look less pale in the later pics.