too many buds?

[Canniwhatsis]

Maui peppers

I was having a hell of a time getting em to flower and produce pollen to make pods under 18/6,... so figured I'd toss one to 12/12. Certainly helped with that strain of pepper.

Stupid things are about as hot as a Habanero,... but the heat lingers about 4x as long,... and they're only the size of your fingernail!!!! Awesome way to spice up a dish without messing much with the flavor. (each pod if eaten whole tastes like a southwestern chile pepper once you get past the heat)

 

[Hammerhead]

I was wounding if the OP had any pics . I know you have pics lol...

 

[oneshot]

Thanks anybody can do it. Just do your homework. Pay attention to your plants . The biggest mistake many make is they love there plants to death and dont know what went wrong ...

I have definitely been there! Who would have guessed that plants can drown? Not me 3 years ago! lol

Your pictures of PP made me pick CBG for my next run. I cannot wait for your PPxQuerkle seeds!

 

[Canniwhatsis]

I was wounding if the OP had any pics . I know you have pics lol...

LOL!

Yeah, I figured as much,... but since you posted a 4 bud plant,.... I figured I'd post my 12+ topped bitch!



I do think that my top colas are smaller,... but,.......

This was about 1/4 of another of the plants in the Screen, wet trimmed before hanging to dry.

 

[VerdantGreen]

light intensity does not effect potency... just the weight of the buds.
if you train your plants to have many tops then you will not get that one big bud off the top but you will get many more medium sized buds and a better yield. i like to have 12-16 colas per square foot in my scrogs.
heres my 2x2 cab, 4 plants 187w LED.

VG

 

[crisscross]

hammerhead: I just uploaded some photos to a new album titled 'round 3..round 1 shouldn't count' photo 4 is from a couple of weeks ago. I removed about 3" of the lower buds that were dime sized. Pictures 1,2&3 are from last night. I am 52 days into flower. My first grow I harvested too early and it wasn't that stony so I'm being more patient on this crop. I think I have a couple of weeks left. The one thing I notice on this crop compared to my first crop I see many many more triches this go around. I think it has a lot to do with me feeding much better, maintaining temps and ph and just having more experience.

Sorry for the shitty lighting on the pics but using a phone and having a red light blasting it's hard to get a good picture. How the hell do you do it VG?

 

[VerdantGreen]

i take the pics at lights out

your plants look ok but they have heat stress - thats what is causing the leaf curling and most likely the airy buds. not sure what wattage light you have but you need at least 6" for a 250 and more for bigger lights. also when you raise the light, the footprint gets bigger and irradiates your whole canopy rather than just having a sweet spot in the middle. if you are struggling for height in your box then use shallower pots and have a smaller gap between pot and canopy - or scrog like i do

VG

 

[crisscross]

VG: great tips. I will take some pics before lights go on from now on. As for the heat stress: you're right on point. I live in a very hot area and it's already 100 down here. I had to install a a/c in my garage/grow area just to keep the temps at 80.

In addition to the high temps, I just 'upgraded' from 400 to 600w so managing the heat has been a pain in the ass. I'm new at this so I really appreciate all of your input. You can't tell from my pictures but I made an attempt at scrog but I think I vegged too long and let the girls get out of hand (I was in the hospital for a week and they went wild).

What distance would you suggest at 600w?

 

[VerdantGreen]

i would say about 18" or more for a 600 to get the most out of it, although i bet most people would keep them closer than that.

VG

 

[sx646522]

You want to keep in mind that you can have light stress as well as heat stress.

For more on what light stress can do to your plants, Read This.

In other words: More is not Better. A relatively common new grower's mistake.

Don't love your plants too much!

I live in a very hot area and it's already 100 down here. I had to install a a/c in my garage/grow area just to keep the temps at 80.

Heat stress from HIDs is more a result of radiant heat from the fixture, rather than ambient air temperature per se, though these are certainly complementary.

If the latter is sufficiently high, though, you will also have problems. Do you have an IR heat gun, or at least a thermometer? Check the temp at your canopy top, as well as within the room itself.

--------

A trick I used to do back in my old small cab was to use a 1/4" tempered glass partition between the light and the canopy. Works even better with larger wattages:

(My super-duper cutting-edge CAD/CAM drawing, circa ~2000)


You can get this cut at any glass shop; the one in the above pic cost me about ~$17 USD, including grinding the rounded, beveled edge.

This provides a few discrete advantages:

• Barrier from radiant heat allows closer placement with low wattage fixtures, maximizing light output (over footprint)
• Prevents trichomes from cooking off as quickly, so the dynamic equilibrium between production and degradation (from heat) shifts to the left.
• Keeps heat stress to a minimum with higher wattages (do NOT place light closer w/higher wattage fixtures; use only as a radiant heat shield)

I've found this arrangement to be even more useful than using a typical vented glass hood.

Note that the barrier just covers the outside dimensions of your canopy; you still want to maintain good airflow throughout, of course.

As a barrier, you'll also lose about ~8-10% of your light output from refraction losses (which, for lower wattage fixtures, you more than regain by allowing for closer placement to your canopy) - the loss of which, in your case, you want. You're probably still better off with the 400 in there, honestly - heat shield, or no.

At 6", you WILL get oversaturation due to light with a 600 (and even with a 400). It needs to be farther away, irrespective of your radiant heat.


Cheers,

-SX

 

[crisscross]

SX: I have a thermometer at the top of the canopy and the temps never exceed 84. I have a cool tube thing hooked up to a fan. The room is set at 80.

What are the benefits of a IR thermometer?

Based on what you have posted, would I be better off 'saving' the 600w bulb for a larger grow area and using 400 from here on or just raise the light while keeping the canopy less dense? You are scientific as fuck, I love that. I appreciate your feedback big time SX

 

[longwaters]

Many tomato growers remove lower leaves or branches that don't get much light. When growth starts to get shaded out there becomes a point where those "suckers" are using more energy to stretch for light than they are making with photosynthesis, and this is energy the plant could otherwise put toward top growth. The suckers grow up to make small fruit, or in our case loose buds.

With cannabis there is also the possibility that light increases trichome production. If this is so, then the benefits of pruning would be greater with MJ than tomatoes.

 

[VerdantGreen]

You want to keep in mind that you can have light stress as well as heat stress.

For more on what light stress can do to your plants, Read This.

In other words: More is not Better. A relatively common new grower's mistake.

Don't love your plants too much!

....

very true. i would say it is often a 'mistake' of more experienced growers too, although some growers prefer to fill their space with lights rather than use lights efficiently.

most of the pics that get posted on IC show top buds that are heat/light stressed - especially when plants are grown un-topped.

if you are doing scrog or other similar forms of canopy management then hanging the lights at the correct height so that the canopy is irradiated as evenly as possible is an important aspect of the technique.

VG

 

[Kindest]

light intensity does not effect potency... just the weight of the buds.
if you train your plants to have many tops then you will not get that one big bud off the top but you will get many more medium sized buds and a better yield. i like to have 12-16 colas per square foot in my scrogs.
heres my 2x2 cab, 4 plants 187w LED.
View Image

VG

This VG picture remains my greatest inspiration. Amazing.

 

[sx646522]

SX: I have a thermometer at the top of the canopy and the temps never exceed 84. I have a cool tube thing hooked up to a fan. The room is set at 80.

What are the benefits of a IR thermometer?

An Infrared Temperature Gun (here's a cheap one) allows you to point at any object (like a fixture, a wall, or a leaf) and take temperature readings on the object itself.

Even if the room is relatively cool, your leaf temps can be several degrees higher. You want both to be in the low 80's if possible, without CO2 supplementation. An in-room thermometer won't tell you this information, so it's a good investment for your garden, esp. with HIDs. They put out an awful lot of radiant heat/IR.

Even LEDs can do this, as a fair % of higher-energy blue light especially gets converted to heat on the leaf, if you are close to (or over) the saturation point.

Note that many people will put their hand close under the (LED) fixture and feel heat which they think is from IR diodes, but is actually from blue light converting to heat on the skin, too.

Based on what you have posted, would I be better off 'saving' the 600w bulb for a larger grow area and using 400 from here on or just raise the light while keeping the canopy less dense?

Since you haven't given exact specs for the room, I can only infer from pictures, but it appears that you have little or no headroom above the light, and the walls aren't much bigger than the fixture, correct?

If that's the case, I'd remove the 600w immediately and just use the 400. In any event, best not to have more than ~70-75w/ sq. ft. of light in there.

You are scientific as fuck, I love that. I appreciate your feedback big time SX

Thanks mate, my first degree was in biology and I was a pre-med physics and chemistry 'lab rat' for awhile, so I guess some of that stuck, lol. No worries!

very true. i would say it is often a 'mistake' of more experienced growers too, although some growers prefer to fill their space with lights rather than use lights efficiently.

most of the pics that get posted on IC show top buds that are heat/light stressed - especially when plants are grown un-topped.

Good point, VG.

I also see lots of folks trying to grow ~5-6ft+ tall plants, lollipopping the heck out of the bottom 1/2, budding the top 1'-2' with lots of nothing underneath, and think, 'why'? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

if you are doing scrog or other similar forms of canopy management then hanging the lights at the correct height so that the canopy is irradiated as evenly as possible is an important aspect of the technique.

VG

^This.

Growing under any sort of artificial lighting indoors is inefficient at best; it's best to try and maximize every lumen (or PPFD) you can. This is the best technique for doing so (outside of a 'pipeline') in a horizontal garden area.

-SX

 

[mattkilla420]

Many tomato growers remove lower leaves or branches that don't get much light. When growth starts to get shaded out there becomes a point where those "suckers" are using more energy to stretch for light than they are making with photosynthesis, and this is energy the plant could otherwise put toward top growth. The suckers grow up to make small fruit, or in our case loose buds.

With cannabis there is also the possibility that light increases trichome production. If this is so, then the benefits of pruning would be greater with MJ than tomatoes.

so when is too late to start removing this lower growth . i think i got way too much down low on all my plants. I am in day 7 of flower is it too late Where would you reccomend putting the thermometers. When i just added the 250 the direct light gives me a false readin. where can i get the truest reading?


also any scrog'ers. Would this work in theory. This is a rack that was mounted in here before i grew and i used it for seedlings. Could i stick it in here now and as they hit there stretch in next week scrog the two plants in the back thru it. I was just looking at so many lovely scrog picks and i found this and thought it would work great. what you think?

 

[sso]

hmm, plants are actually fine with high temps, as long as you keep the roots relatively cool and the air flowing.

even 100f temps.

larger containers for the soil, f.e cool the roots quite alot.


you´d of course get better results at lower temps, but if the roots are cool and the air flowing, you are mostly ok (somewhat airier buds and perhaps bit lacking in performance, but not alot and sometimes not (depends on genetics and well, basically, look at the tropics, huge fruits and flowers and despite the high heat, because the roots manage to keep cool.)