Tom Hill Haze

[elanius]

Easy until later flowering hit. They were tall dense bushes. I had to prune often and still couldn't keep them tame. The short phenos of Madmacs THH. These were almost 7' I had another that was 9' tall. Not suitable for indoor growing without major training pruning.
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Hammerhead is great grower, I am only saying that Haze or any plant with strong NLD influence will need different approach flowering it properly and you should only judge it if you flower it right.
This is example of what I meant, these THH plants had the wrong feeding regime, they never start budding properly, what you see is a result of Nitrogen excess, possibly other factors. 11/12 would help a lot too. Those dark green leafs and leafy foxtails tell the story.

how you know they reached the full potential ?

Good question, there are indicators that plant is finishing its life cycle right? Glandular heads are changing color, pistils are shivering and drying, leafs are using up their nutrients, plant is drinking less and less water. But of course more often than not, you cannot reach full potential indoors, its artificial environment. Some NLD never stop flowering too, so you need to choose when to harvest based on other aspects.
The soil and sun is where you might get better result, however in nature, there are other conditions that might not allow the plant to reach its full potential too. So its about getting as close as possible.
Anyway, if you manage to flower it properly, you will know. These plants will reward you and you dont need to find 5% to be happy with it. Many female will be much better smoke than what the market usually offers, making the grow worthwhile.

 

[Hammerhead]

If it takes 6 months and the quality is there I would grow more. I've never found any haze that rises to the top or is better than any outcross made. Even if it's not grown perfectly any experienced grower can tell if the quality is there. I've seen a lot of quality plants going back to the 70s. People can grow Haze themselves and decide if the quality meets their expectations. I've not found any haze today that meets mine. If we have to grow 100-1k plants to find 3-5 it's very unlikely I ever will. . IMO Haze is far better used for breeding!!! IMO Sam's comment was referring to quality. Commercial weed was/is low grade or degraded, especially when he made that comment. Using haze with our best you will find plenty of keepers AKA quality plants.. Outcrossing Haze produces much better quality IME. I want quality that is better than what's commercially available. This is my opinion yours might be different that is OK.

Having said that I still grow Haze hoping for the best.

I use V$B dirty in flower(8-5-13), PBP grow in veg(3-2-4). I don't use or add anything else. The plants take what they want.

 

[Chi13]

Hammerhead, what qualities are you looking for in haze that you aren't finding?

I'm chasing euphoric and/or focus weed, not really trippy. Can this be found in Toms haze (asking everyone)? Most of us in here are in our 40s to 70s I suspect. While I liked trip weed in my 20s these days I'm not looking for a crazy trip high as my everyday go to. If I want to trip I use mushrooms and set aside time. Using trippy weed everyday I suspect is not great for mental health and functioning.

 

[@hempy]

Hammer can grow and from all the plants I have seen him post he matures them correctly, if he says he has not found a good plant or special plant I believe him.

Haze is a hybrid but unlike most it's not an F1 and even F1s you as a grower still need to select through those to find a keeper, that is just how it is.

It's a numbers game, some people can throw 5 seed down and find exactly what they are looking for others might need to throw 20 or 40 seed and others 100 it's just how it is.

 

[Limeygreen]

Most hazes, grown most peoples lines even if in smaller numbers pure hazes anyways, most have good highs, not 3% but good, 5-15% were not great, can't say I found the exceptional one yet but low numbers, crowded together etc much like elanius says not grown to perfection. What I did notice and need to explore, the ones I liked the best if grown better or outdoors perhaps they would shine more, my belief is grown moderately well you will find teh standouts but to see true qualities need to grow again and better to see the top qualities. I personally didn't do this, I made my seeds that I needed, some hybrids then trashed the cuts, some I ran again but weren't so good after long term use, they were good but not worth the effort.

Next problem, small populations done to make seeds will make it challenging in the next generation possibly to find exceptional plants but for me it's simply using too small the population sizes, using all males and females with out intersex is all I did. In hazes case a few males gave a few pistils and were discarded, in toms line and seedsman haze.

The hybrids typically share similar great highs as teh haze parents but are more productive and appear to have more plants with great desirable traits such as high, vigour, yield in one plant versus more just easier to find stock plants for production.

Haze is a stretch monster for sure, sensitive to nitrogen and high temps inside and other things mentioned.

To put my tastes into perspective because everyone has different tastes, I like the colombian clear or dreamy highs, slightly stoney but still active enough, smile on your face bliss type of herbs usually, anxious herb or high energy isn't something I typically am in favour of. Long duration of effect, clean come down and all those things are my preferred type. So I choose on these effects, some are more relaxed, some are more dreamy, some people might call trippy in a slight way but share the long effect.

Which haze line would I like best, seedsman from jc I believe gave me plants I prefered the highs of the most but I cannot recall so well, could have been the original pack from seedsman or from another grower to made some. Tom's line is good as well, lots of variation and best flavours in its raw form, had one taste just like punto rojo. old timers haze was wild just like golli haze, old timers I only had 2 females of can't comment on the line so much, golli haze I had was crossed with original haze or the 90s haze as it's called in hybrid. So wild it's vigour is like old timers, less variation than old timers. Seedsman haze from green supreme is another line which is great for yield and flavour, great flavour and super clear high.

Lots to be found in haze if you want to take time and find it, I believe if you like sativas you can find something you will love in haze if you grow enough out and do them well. Hybrids with haze just make it easier and more friendly grower product.

My humble opinion and experience anyways.

 

[@hempy]

Sam put me onto Luther Burbank in my Haze discussion thread, interesting character and a very smart plant breeder.

 

[Dime]

Sam put me onto Luther Burbank in my Haze discussion thread, interesting character and a very smart plant breeder.

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Mcdonalds bought the rights to his potato

 

[@hempy]

I was told that, and they are still my favourite fries.

 

[Chi13]

I've read a couple of experienced growers saying haze doesn't respond well to high temps? I find this a bit weird considering the building blocks of haze are from hot tropical areas.

 

[Dime]

He introduced over 1000 cultivars and he never schooled past grade 8

 

[@hempy]

That has to do with the flowers Chi13 the flowers will run not fill out correctly and in extreme cases look like they have gone back to a veg state.

Lighty intensity more so than heat does it.

 

[Chi13]

That has to do with the flowers Chi13 the flowers will run not fill out correctly and in extreme cases look like they have gone back to a veg state.

Lighty intensity more so than heat does it.

Sure, but they grow in Thailand under blazing sun and intense heat. It makes little sense to me. Are there lights that rival intense tropical sun? I think I read the sun was something like 2000 PPFD, so to me most growers (myself included) aren't using as intense a light as the sun, or anywhere near.

I grew a Thai/a5 last year, a plant indoors, and a clone outdoors in QLD. The indoor stuff ran a bit, but the outdoor not at all. The high was very similar for both.

Not trying to start an argument, just genuinely curious about this.

 

[Chi13]

I know I'm going a bit off topic here but the other thing I've noticed with indoor vs outdoor sativas is that with outdoor sativas the tops mature first, whereas indoor it seems the lower branches mature first. Anyone know why?

 

[@hempy]

I don't think you are trying to start an argument, they seem like valid questions to me.

The outdoor temps will very threw the morning day evening and night as will other factors like humidity and the intensity of the sun.

Indoors, from the time the lights come on until they turn off, the light intensity stays the same.

Even in the tropics, the sun is less intense is the wet season than it is in dry season and it also verys in the morning midday and evening.

The best example I can give are these pictures, the flowers further from the light are fuller, the branch closer to the light have the flowers running and look like are in a veg state.

Pic of the same branch moved and tied away from the light it to filled in.

 

[Dime]

i want some weed that makes me do this

 

[bigtacofarmer]

I know I'm going a bit off topic here but the other thing I've noticed with indoor vs outdoor sativas is that with outdoor sativas the tops mature first, whereas indoor it seems the lower branches mature first. Anyone know why?

My first thought is that it has to do with the roots having limited space. Although technically I have no idea.

 

[@hempy]

It sucks not having an edit feature, I must be paying for a past edit ? lol

This is the pic after I moved that branch further from the light.

Not the clearest pics.

Same plant flowers flowered closer to the wall.

 

[Limeygreen]

The reason I understand for the high temps indoors being a problem is the light in artificial setting isn't the same spectrum as the sun, you have different air, wind as well. Different angles of the sun how close the light source and only one angle affects it I believe as well.

In the controlled environment higher temps don't let the plants express in the same ways as it does outdoors, just a physiological response to the artificial environment and light.

 

[@hempy]

You can achieve very good results indoors if you follow basic rules, example a good exhaust and a good intake of fresh air good air movement (fans) and keep the flowering Sativa flowers as far away from the light intercity as you can.

The veg cycle and up until they start to flower the more light the better, once they start to flower that changes.

I think a light mover would also be a great idea, never used one my self.

 

[Donald Mallard]

The reason I understand for the high temps indoors being a problem is the light in artificial setting isn't the same spectrum as the sun, you have different air, wind as well. Different angles of the sun how close the light source and only one angle affects it I believe as well.

In the controlled environment higher temps don't let the plants express in the same ways as it does outdoors, just a physiological response to the artificial environment and light.

exactly limey,
it can be 35 degrees celcius outdoors , with direct sun beating down on the plants ,
, but with good airflow and mulched soil with the right amount of moisture etc ,
the plants are perfectly happy ,, but the same may not be true indoors at the same temps ,
in pots etc ..
the spectrums of indoor lighting and the direct sun is not the same as you have mentioned,
but of course the sunlight is much stronger intensity than the indoor lights ... particularly in tropical settings ..