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Tom Hill Haze

flylowgethigh

Non-growing Lurker
ICMag Donor
any pictures of THH cannabis plants around here?

...cmon guys!
Ima gonna run some just cause, but it will be a while before the tent is vacant. Mine came from Panicz.

Tom threatened to make some killer haze and spread the seeds, and they kicked him out. Maybe I can smoke him out with some THH that he can say is bunk and here is the good stuff. A guy can dream.
 

Chi13

Well-known member
ICMag Donor
Ima gonna run some just cause, but it will be a while before the tent is vacant. Mine came from Panicz.

Tom threatened to make some killer haze and spread the seeds, and they kicked him out. Maybe I can smoke him out with some THH that he can say is bunk and here is the good stuff. A guy can dream.
Tom's pretty funny but he did come here drunk and basically organised a witch hunt to extract an (alleged) unpaid debt from another vendor. He was given plenty of chances by mods and Gypsy. Not sure what else they could have done.
 

Piff_cat

Well-known member
looking thru info on ocimene and found something pretty cool which reminded me of toms descriptions of his haze. they are oxygenated ocimene derivatives

1662689304682.png


with the recent increase in profile data provided by piffcon, ace and other breeders/researchers ocimene has stood out as a contributor to the hazes magical smell taste and even effect. utilized by the plant for defense and phermones it is one of the first terpenes to decrease(along with limonene and linalool) when plants are moved inside in a "safer" enviorment.
its main medical characteristic is as a decongestant by making cough more productive- considering many haze phenos end up being named "cough" not hard to see ocimene contribution. but its also a stimulant and skin agitator, probly responsible for the weed hives i sometimes get around certain plants. anyway these oxygenated ocimene qualities match up perfectly to some of the unique qualities toms haze has. heres the whole paper if anyone wants to look.
im not sure how or why the plant decides to make ocimene into ocimene oxygenated derivatives, but i plan to figure it out
 

Brother Nature

Well-known member
Tom's pretty funny but he did come here drunk and basically organised a witch hunt to extract an (alleged) unpaid debt from another vendor. He was given plenty of chances by mods and Gypsy. Not sure what else they could have done.
I've always found it a shame that in an industry pioneered, built, and sold on outlaw principals, that there's not much place for those same outlaws any longer.
 

Piff_cat

Well-known member
I've always found it a shame that in an industry pioneered, built, and sold on outlaw principals, that there's not much place for those same outlaws any longer.
such a great point. but the outlaws still grow the best bud and know the most. such a weird time never have so many states passed a law in direct defiance of federal law. pretty much operating as 50 distinct countries when it comes to cannabis legality which creates these weird niche markets. especially in illegal states next to legal ones. in capitalism the cream will rise to the top under normal circumstances, but this isnt one. the photography installation called when we were criminals sums it up perfect. cant remember if it was mel frank or ed rosenthal but its a great name
 

Piff_cat

Well-known member
Probably BC, it was only around a couple years. . or B .some of them females were supposed to be all stingy beads....I think BC was the only one being put out in large batches around that time an im sure it was put out as just haze or pure haze...so could have been....
funny you mention that about the strings. harvesting these outback vietnams. there was 1 straight up grinspoon calyx type which was obvious. but then looking closer while trimming you realize alot of the more normal looking bud types are just strings of dreadlock type calyxs pulled together like a pony tail. the outback x dj nl5 plant mary is built like one of those head scratchers or a hand with fingers pressed to thub.

the biggest project to bring back the earliest genes could concentrate on multiplying the haze A allele population. the A male dying had a giant narrowing consequence on the 69 haze progeny lines. incredible diversity exists in haze a f1 gens as piffcoast farms showed when he selfed brown haze twice(a5 clone) it ending up with a whole catalogue of phenos.

nevil mentioned in grail thread that crossing a5 to c came at a price, reduced outstanding haze A phenos. im sure nevs selected cut was the best but that doesnt make up for the endless possibilites a live haze A could have created.
i believe haze C to be a half brother to A and i think the female parent was different. this makes a big difference becasue mitochondrial dna does not recombine as they say you can always find the original mom in line breeding she will keep popping back up. so we need to recover that maternal line by using all known f1 or s1 haze A lines to start.

i believe the list of alive may be -
1. brown haze aka the great 88 aka piff nl5 x haze A
2. sammys ag13. also ojds haze freak male could be very very useful since it was a male from seeds that should have been all fem and it has a large proportion of haze A
3.karmas a5 cut recently brought back
4.shantis a5 breeder selected once nevs original selection was lost
5. hph x haze A i think DNA holds this
6.skunk x haze a maybe shit haze that hempy popped?

honorable mentions-
sssc old school haze possibly a haze A f1
a5thai - bandaid haze dad not sure if original male is left but this line also holds promise
cuban black haze- not a5 but possibly a haze A hybrid. could be an unreleased silver haze or the o nl1 x haze
original jack herer cut- most likely haze A father imo but unknown.

these haze A types have several great qualities-
high density of different types of trichomes- sessile cbc, peltate "pillows" for sequiterpene alcohols, milky/cloudy cbg/cbgm glandular short stalk

oxygenated sequiterpenes- very common in south china primarily to fight fungi big contributor to incense scents

chromene cannabinoid content- since we have discovered that cbca is an active precursor modified by cbt synthases to produce up to 9 cbt types. cbt is nearly identical to thc but has more aromatic properties



most of these traits are highly conserved due to the immense resources plant must spend creating them. they are organ specific . for example the sessile cbc trichomes will dissapear in 2 generations in an f1 where one parent does not have them. unless f2 gen selections lean towards sessile trichome production , by f3 most plants will not create them anymore.

this is why haze A is important!!
killer a5 by unique flower
1663248074963.png

1663248107714.png

1663248130155.png

original jack herer cutting
1663248326083.png

1663248351219.png


a5 x thai ace seeds
1663248630476.png


haze ladies from bonks website. i like the dark blue/green ones with pistil stacks
1663248708542.png

1663248742676.png
 

Piff_cat

Well-known member
there is alot of info on w i e t f o r u m on the old school haze. i cant say one way or other if its a 69 male but if i had to bet id say yes. even if not the cut dates to 84/85 so it will still be an old haze male. also the skunk parent was probly not so indica leaning as these days. yo sammy would know best hes described it before. nev and karel did have a brief collaboration period. south african haze released by sssc was durban x haze c won a cannabis cup pedigree given by nevil on mns

e second line of the Haze is a lot shorter. This line was almost nipped in the bud.

As often happens in our industry, plants are in the wrong hands

cases. In the infamous year 1984, the only remaining cuttings, which were

meanwhile were made of the seed plants, on an ebb and flow table (yes too

then already!). During a raid by the police in 1984 (yes even then!) everything is in

seized and destroyed.

The only thing left for that fatal foray with the haze

cuttings had happened, was the following: The best Haze male was crossed with the

best SK#1 woman. SKUNK#1 was and still is the most uniform strain out there

consists. Out of a 90(!) number of SK#1 women, the best one was selected and that is

crossed with the most beautiful Haze male. There is nothing left of the seed.



All that is left is 1 cutting selected from the seed Haze x SK#1. This one

So one place has been in different places since 1985 by three friends

kept alive.- coxnox
translated old school haze grow
https://www.wietforum.nl/topic/73266-old-school-haze-kweekverslag/?tab=comments#comment-762132

1663301043885.png


1663301090534.png

, so the top one is the dead whale skunk haze? lol
Yes, guess that description stuck right? It came from a friend who tried his best for giving his best taken on her smell when we started growing it. It was a funny moment and so the dead whale description stuck around. In fact she is very pungent but nothing to do with death stuff, more like feces with a lill whiff of oranges or something. This when she is still growing in end fase, after chopping and curing she smells more like feces, catpiss and haze funk together. Pretty funky stuff.
- yo sammy
 

Mimpi Manis

Well-known member
funny you mention that about the strings. harvesting these outback vietnams. there was 1 straight up grinspoon calyx type which was obvious. but then looking closer while trimming you realize alot of the more normal looking bud types are just strings of dreadlock type calyxs pulled together like a pony tail. the outback x dj nl5 plant mary is built like one of those head scratchers or a hand with fingers pressed to thub.

the biggest project to bring back the earliest genes could concentrate on multiplying the haze A allele population. the A male dying had a giant narrowing consequence on the 69 haze progeny lines. incredible diversity exists in haze a f1 gens as piffcoast farms showed when he selfed brown haze twice(a5 clone) it ending up with a whole catalogue of phenos.

nevil mentioned in grail thread that crossing a5 to c came at a price, reduced outstanding haze A phenos. im sure nevs selected cut was the best but that doesnt make up for the endless possibilites a live haze A could have created.
i believe haze C to be a half brother to A and i think the female parent was different. this makes a big difference becasue mitochondrial dna does not recombine as they say you can always find the original mom in line breeding she will keep popping back up. so we need to recover that maternal line by using all known f1 or s1 haze A lines to start.

i believe the list of alive may be -
1. brown haze aka the great 88 aka piff nl5 x haze A
2. sammys ag13. also ojds haze freak male could be very very useful since it was a male from seeds that should have been all fem and it has a large proportion of haze A
3.karmas a5 cut recently brought back
4.shantis a5 breeder selected once nevs original selection was lost
5. hph x haze A i think DNA holds this
6.skunk x haze a maybe shit haze that hempy popped?

honorable mentions-
sssc old school haze possibly a haze A f1
a5thai - bandaid haze dad not sure if original male is left but this line also holds promise
cuban black haze- not a5 but possibly a haze A hybrid. could be an unreleased silver haze or the o nl1 x haze
original jack herer cut- most likely haze A father imo but unknown.

these haze A types have several great qualities-
high density of different types of trichomes- sessile cbc, peltate "pillows" for sequiterpene alcohols, milky/cloudy cbg/cbgm glandular short stalk

oxygenated sequiterpenes- very common in south china primarily to fight fungi big contributor to incense scents

chromene cannabinoid content- since we have discovered that cbca is an active precursor modified by cbt synthases to produce up to 9 cbt types. cbt is nearly identical to thc but has more aromatic properties



most of these traits are highly conserved due to the immense resources plant must spend creating them. they are organ specific . for example the sessile cbc trichomes will dissapear in 2 generations in an f1 where one parent does not have them. unless f2 gen selections lean towards sessile trichome production , by f3 most plants will not create them anymore.

this is why haze A is important!!
killer a5 by unique flower
View attachment 18756882
View attachment 18756883
View attachment 18756884
original jack herer cutting
View attachment 18756885
View attachment 18756886

a5 x thai ace seeds
View attachment 18756887

haze ladies from bonks website. i like the dark blue/green ones with pistil stacks
View attachment 18756888
View attachment 18756889
Good post my friend. Some terrific info and research here you took the time out to post. Like the pics too. I made a cross to a KA5 fem with pollen from my 40 year old IBL. Used a good sturdy male from that to pollinate a few things. Almost everything that sucker pollinated (Red Diesel, Z99, Blue Dream) turned out pretty damn good. I like strong euphoric effects... but still get that nice sativa high. The cure certainly seems to load these sativas with more oomph and complexity. How was that Ace KA5/Thai I wonder? Salute'.
 

TheDarkStorm

Well-known member
Always wondered about that SSSC Old School Haze cut. Seemed to come in the early days before Haze 19 and even the '76.

Wouldn't think it would be Haze A itself but possibly something pre '76 .... 🤔
Im glad you noticed that....I did put up pictures of the very first clone they showed as their oldschool haze...the clone that mysteriously dissapeared (the cutting piffcat has pictured).. only to be replaced by the clone they ended up sharing....ive got a feeling that the original clone they had may actually be a skunk hazeA.....nevil did give them a couple of his haze lines like the south african haze...
I believed the cutt they have shared out as well as the seeds are actually skhzA x sams skunk haze.
 

Piff_cat

Well-known member
Im glad you noticed that....I did put up pictures of the very first clone they showed as their oldschool haze...the clone that mysteriously dissapeared (the cutting piffcat has pictured).. only to be replaced by the clone they ended up sharing....ive got a feeling that the original clone they had may actually be a skunk hazeA.....nevil did give them a couple of his haze lines like the south african haze...
I believed the cutt they have shared out as well as the seeds are actually skhzA x sams skunk haze.
its confusing because theres tons of pics on this thread by coxnox, but it was done in 2008. yet when sssc relaunched way later they used one of these pics from 2008. theres also a scientific paper which used the seed line (kees old school haze) which is kees sk haze clone x (karels haze which is sk hz clone x chem fire og). they also recently crossed the f1 clone to a sativa cut of jack herer. those look very nice too.

1663374957129.png



i think this screenshot by nev really great concept. its especially true with these old haze plants. keep a plant with special desirable ancestor in both the mom and the dad continues to create transgressive extreme phenotypes and builds a bottleneck of quality. he should have trademarked that one. these sk hz crosses seem to be in that category
1663375702510.png



1663375370619.png
1663375413771.png
 

TheDarkStorm

Well-known member
Its a pitty there isnt a thread more so based around this subject so futher discussion can be had.....I dont really like taking the thread off track....so apologies to all...
One thing I can say....as over the years as people have gone further and further out from the original cuttings that made those plants...and added more an more or inbred them more and more the futher away we have come from the original quality and power....originally when those pure cutts were around no mater what they were being put to the finished smoke would come out all haze....

To give you a good idea of what the originals cuts held..there are some pictures a few generations removed from hazeC and inbred afew times...and it will give you a picture of mostly one of the 3 phenotypes that would show up from the make up of the pure hazeC.....on insta...look up #supersilverhazef2 ...find the extreme sativa plant pictures...
 

Piff_cat

Well-known member
the difficulty with using haze x indica which arent f1 is the undesirable indica traits are usally over dominated in the f1 . but once the f2 independent leaves you with 2 types of undesirable parents- first group has all intermediate traits a result of the independent sorting and gene exchange from the indica. muddled up and unless theres a miracle recombination going forward your stuck in the mud.

the second type is the trojan horse cbd synthase. now that we know the cbd synthases in sativa have become non functional there will be no cbd synthase present in the line in perpetutity- unless you introduce a functional one from a hasplant or hybrid. even if its not dominant you will still end up with plants with undesirable cbd production.

the only way to get rid ofthis active cbd infection is to find 2 parents who only have the pseudo cbd synthase from sativa and build off them. but in reality without the original sativa parent to backcross//re charge the pseudo cbd synthase ya might as well start over

heres the outback 3 mom , fenotrigo outback 3 x viet and the tent full of outback3 x viet tent ladies bout halfway thru flower i think plenty of nld there
1663439825639.png

numa21.jpg

1663392195401.png
 

Hammerhead

Disabled Farmer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
People got lazy and made it more about money than the quality of the plants.. The faster flowering varieties made them more money so they never spent the time breeding with long flowering plants. Sure there's decent quality in fast finishers but nowhere near as good as it used to be. Most have no clue how good cannabis was 40 years ago. People use those HT pictures taken of imports from the 70s as an example of the crapy weed as they call it. Judging quality based on poorly taken pictures is asinine. It's been rough getting people to listen to our experiences of cannabis back then and not call it just "nostalgic"...It will get worse as more people breed with the same genetics over and over. People seem to continue making the same mistakes with no end in sight.
 
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