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Tom Hill Haze
- Thread starter Morphote
- Start date
An not a single source cited... sounds legit.
Cannabis in India - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
"Cannabis appears to have been introduced to Thailand from India, with the similarity of the Thai name to the Indian term ganja cited as evidence."
Idukki Gold or Kerala Gold (also known as Mahadevan or Neela Chadayan) is the name given to a cannabis strain originating in Idukki in Kerala state of southern India. It is internationally renowned as one of the finest cannabis strains in Asia.[1][2][3]
I hear lots of bollocks, so here is the idukki gold story in a nutshell.
There are people who say the stash is gold, there are people who say it was wrapped with a gold ribbon and exported to another country.
For the large part, this is all repurposed bovine waste (i.e., bullshit).
From some of the biggest breeders in the world today of Cannabis seeds, with whom I share an excellent rapport (no, I will not tell you who, don't ask, but you have probably seen or heard of them - and it is not anyone from StrainHunters), this is the real scene:
In the 80s, a lot of breeders (people who cross various varieties of marijuana to result in a new generation of seeds for a specific purpose - flavour, yield, potency, etc.) were roaming around the world, looking for the seeds that make the basis of all the popular strains we know today - skunk, super silver haze, neville's haze, cheese, etc. (In India these strains are still unknown, that is a different story for another time). They scoured many countries where cannabis had been growing for centuries, from Brazil to Jamaica, from Cambodia to Thailand, from the Congo to Lebanon, from Afghanistan to India. They were surprised with the variety found in India. From the short flowering, hardy Indica leaning plants from the Hindu Kush Mountain Range to the long flowering, sativas in Karnataka; from the rain resistant monsoonal varieties of the northeast to the relatively potent and stocky plants growing in Kerala. The ones in Kerala in particular interested these breeders I'm talking about. They had extremely desirable traits. They took seeds from Kerala and used these to make their own strains, which they subsequently tested out with the local farmers on their fields. The result was immediate - in plants, when you cross two plants of the same species from two completely different, consistent genetic backgrounds, the offspring exhibit what is called hybrid vigour, which is basically the offspring generation growing far more vigourously than either of the parents. These offspring plants were far more potent than the local populace was accustomed to, given that they also had the refined genetics that these breeders brought with them from Europe. These breeders referred to Kerala as a gold mine as far as the gene pool goes. The term stuck, and eventually, the farmers themselves began to refer to the plants as gold. This term carried on to the buyers of this stash up till the mid and late 90s. What happened between '88 and '01, the breeders do not know - but when they returned to kerala in 2001, instead of being a gold mine, it was a desert as far as cannabis genetics go. Nothing noteworthy, nothing worthwhile, and that was that. What happened, we don't know - but the 'idukki gold' that used to be around has long ceased to exist.
Don't waste time searching for it. You can still find some good weed in parts of Kerala in season (jan-march), but there's a 99.9% chance it's not the idukki gold - nor anything close to it - that the region became famous for once upon a time.
Idukki gold was the only weed available across Kerala before the 1980s. It has golden brown flowers that were distinct from the leaves that remained green. It has an intense high that often induces paranoia. This was the premium "Kerala Grass" that was available in Madras and Bangalore in the 60s and 70s. Most of the weed those days were grown in the hills of Kattappana in Idukki District, hence the name. This name was probably coined by Europeans in the coffee shops of Amsterdam, where a name would be necessary to differentiate from weed on sale from other places, and not by native smokers.
Cannabrainer
Well-known member
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@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
We had no need to travel and source Thai or many other genetics CannaT they were already here being grown either collected by people travelling or from seed found in the imported lots.
A lot of Thai was taken back to places like here Hawaii, the main land US threw military personnel also.
When I knew Thai imports had completely stopped here in 84/85 I asked a close friend who travelled to Thailand monthly for work to collect the best he could find to add it to our collection, and he did just that in 86 threw a Thai friend he had there.
People shared genetics here and still do.
What you fail to get is back then cannabis varieties were unique to each other unlike many Dutch modern lines.
At one point I wanted to grow THH now I’m so turned off if I do I will prolly not post about it
The re occurring theme is “if it’s not mine it’s bullshit” and “u have to grow 100 plants before u think u have something special and even then it’s a 3-5% chance .. sounds like some bullshit to keep selling seeds and making sure u never find something “better” cause if u think u found something special someone is gonna just come rain on your parade and say it’s shit ..and it need to flower for a certain amount of weeks or it’s trash
It’s a lot of people in this thread with there noses up and they did nothing to further the gene pool most of them are famous for making REPRODUCTIONS of famous work or just being around the canna scene / forums long enough and interacted with few notable breeders and now they think there the authority on genetics ..I literally been online for years and watch these things evolve from basic questions to the shit storm it is now
One thing that stood out is that nevil used all of his library to make crosses .. nl 1 x 2 .. 5x2 . 5x haze etc .. at some point all breeders did was use one male to a bunch of different clones and that was the standard that’s not breeding it’s just playing the numbers game something will be fire and a lot will be avg or below avg .. u won’t kno till u grow them all side by side .. Neville said 5x haze x haze was superior to skunk x haze x haze .. little small details like that showed he paid attention to details and knew his shit cause he didn’t lie NL5 haze is still the shit 30 years later
The re occurring theme is “if it’s not mine it’s bullshit” and “u have to grow 100 plants before u think u have something special and even then it’s a 3-5% chance .. sounds like some bullshit to keep selling seeds and making sure u never find something “better” cause if u think u found something special someone is gonna just come rain on your parade and say it’s shit ..and it need to flower for a certain amount of weeks or it’s trash
It’s a lot of people in this thread with there noses up and they did nothing to further the gene pool most of them are famous for making REPRODUCTIONS of famous work or just being around the canna scene / forums long enough and interacted with few notable breeders and now they think there the authority on genetics ..I literally been online for years and watch these things evolve from basic questions to the shit storm it is now
One thing that stood out is that nevil used all of his library to make crosses .. nl 1 x 2 .. 5x2 . 5x haze etc .. at some point all breeders did was use one male to a bunch of different clones and that was the standard that’s not breeding it’s just playing the numbers game something will be fire and a lot will be avg or below avg .. u won’t kno till u grow them all side by side .. Neville said 5x haze x haze was superior to skunk x haze x haze .. little small details like that showed he paid attention to details and knew his shit cause he didn’t lie NL5 haze is still the shit 30 years later
Dime
Well-known member
I think it's the same in any breeding,you need large numbers and show winning standouts are rare,the average dog doesn't win and the ones they make lines from only comes up once in a while. each breeding program also has luck involved.
You might take a quick look in the mirror, or re-read your own post man. You're doing nothing different than most people here have been doing this whole thread. But you're just tossing shade at everyone, except for Nevil. Almost everyone here concurs that truly special plants are rare. That's what Tom was/is saying about his line. Not that the other 95% are garbage, just that the outliers, the really rare special weed isn't going to be commonly found in ten seeds. I've found that to be true for most everything I have grown over 30 or so years. So I'm not exactly sure what your point is?
Genghis Kush.
Active member
1 out of 20 being excellent isnt that bad a ratio
I think it's rather refreshing that Tom is downplaying what to expect from his seeds, instead of saying "keeper in every pack" bullshit. Most people nowadays don't really have a great point of reference for what is truly a "keeper".
My views on what is excellent is based on what we had in 1970-1980. I don't find plants as good anymore. It's not just for Haze. The resin quality and terpenes were superior.
CannaT
starin' at the world through my rearview
I have Jucy Fruit pheno that is 100% smell and taste like Jucy Fruit with bit of animal tones.
Its very racy,psydelic and strong weed.
At harvest its exactly like JucyFruit gum after longer cure it start to have musky feet,sweat and poop like smell a bit.
Dime
Well-known member
Are juicy fruit and jack herer from the same tree? they sure look a lot alike and jack like c99 smells fruity.
CannaT
starin' at the world through my rearview
What do you mean with the same tree ?
Its from Sensi Seeds I grew them last year and chose this plant as my keeper...
Is that juicy fruit from Sensi Seeds?
Nm answered...
Nm answered...
CannaT
starin' at the world through my rearview
No not at all totaly different smells and taste and plant antomy. Jack all phenos were Sativa in JF there were Afghani phenos and Fruty but Minty Thais not like sweet BubbleG.
CannaT
starin' at the world through my rearview
Yes it is.
Cool. The one I'm referring to was purely Juicy Fruit, no other smells, hints of smells, tastes... just Juicy Fruit gum, nothing else. From OLD stock, not current Sensi seed stock. The ones I'm talking about would have been found in the mid-late 90's.
acespicoli
Well-known member
Large-scale whole-genome resequencing unravels the domestication history
of Cannabis sativa
SCIENCE ADVANCES16 Jul 2021
Vol 7, Issue 29
DOI: 10.1126/sciadv.abg2286
Humulus lupulus - Wikipedia
basal
adjective
bas·al ˈbā-səl -zəlSynonyms of basal
1
a
: relating to, situated at, or forming the base
b
: arising from the base of a stem
Definition of BASAL
relating to, situated at, or forming the base; arising from the base of a stem; of or relating to the foundation, base, or essence : fundamental… See the full definition
www.merriam-webster.com
Presence/absence and variation of THCAS and CBDAS
Previous studies have suggested that hemp and drug types may lack fully functional THCAS and CBDAS, respectively (4, 16–19), but intermediate situations where both genes are present or absent could also exist. In addition, McKernan et al. (42) found that reads from these genes and pseudogene copies may be mismapped if many pseudogene copies of THCAS and CBDAS were not assembled in a reference genome because the DNA sequences for most of these copies are more than 90% similar with each other. Although 13 Cannabis genomes are available in the National Center for Biotechnology Information (accessed 25 February 2021), most of them only have one of the two synthase genes and few pseudogene copies. To reliably check for the presence/absence across our dataset of CBDAS, THCAS, and two CBDAS pseudogenes (both consistently identified in our first mapping results and 93 to 94% similar to the original CBDAS; see below), we used the Jamaican Lion DASH (a CBDA:THCA hybrid cultivar) genome (42) as a reference (GenBank assembly accession no. GCA_003660325.2). Both full coding sequences of CBDAS and THCAS and more than 30 pseudogene copies of these genes were assembled, which ensured that reads could be properly mapped to the two genes and two pseudogene copies. The same procedure for mapping mentioned above was used. We then counted the read depth of all the 104 samples for the two genes and two pseudogenes using SAMtools with a base quality of 20 and a map quality of 30. Genes were identified as absent if no read could be mapped to the corresponding regions of the Jamaican Lion DASH genome. We further downloaded transcriptomic data from multiple tissues (i.e., root, reproductive leaf, reproductive buds, vegetative leaf, four stages of female flower, and four stages of trichome) of a cultivar [Cannbio-2 (47)] that has the two genes and the two pseudogenes. We mapped the transcriptomic data to the Jamaican Lion DASH genome using Bowtie v2.4.1 (82) and estimated the expression level for each gene using fragments per kilobase of exon per million fragments value. The significance of the expression difference between THCAS and CBDAS for the four stages of female flower and four stages of trichome, which had six replicates for each, was calculated using Wilcoxon rank-sum test.The cannabis burned 2500 years ago at the Jirzankal cemetery, 3000 meters high in the Pamir Mountains in far western China, was different. Excavations there have uncovered skeletons and wooden plates, bowls, and Chinese harps, as well as wooden braziers that held burning material. All are typical of the Sogdians, a people of western China and Tajikistan who generally followed the Persian faith of Zoroastrianism, which later celebrated the mind-expanding properties of cannabis in sacred texts. At Jirzankal, glass beads typical of Western Asia and silk from China confirm the long-distance trade for which the Sogdians became famous, and isotopic analysis of 34 skeletons showed that nearly a third were migrants. Radiocarbon analysis put the burials at about 500 B.C.E.
Sogdia - Wikipedia
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