Tincture, Revisited

[ICETOKER]

And great description there wolf....just the thing i was looking for. I have tried to make tinctures a couple of times but was not totally satisfied with the potency.

This method i will try as soon my herbs are dry....

 

[Gray Wolf]

Bon appetite IT!

Which one do you covet most and I will try to fill in the process nuances that I passed over lightly?

GW

And great description there wolf....just the thing i was looking for. I have tried to make tinctures a couple of times but was not totally satisfied with the potency.

This method i will try as soon my herbs are dry....

 

[ShonuFF504]

Check out this you tube vid unleash the dragon it shows you how to make tincture useing everclear.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Thanks SF! Good flick!

Define tincture. What Erik is demonstrating is what some of us old folks call green dragon, but we are of course so behind sometimes.

From a MMJ standpoint, although green dragon is technically a tincture, it is mostly just alcohol and as Erik noted, it is strong enough to burn your mouth.

When I discuss medical tincture, I define it as mostly cannabis oil with just enough alcohol in it to make it easy to handle. You can taste the alcohol, but it is so diluted with hash oil that it doesn't burn.

It is what Erik would have if he boiled it in alcohol for about two hours and then strained and cooked off most of the alcohol.

There is a devoted following for both, just wanted to highlight the differences.

An alcohol extracted tincture will also not be the same as a petroleum extracted tincture that has been cooked and re-suspended in alcohol.

GW

Check out this you tube vid unleash the dragon it shows you how to make tincture useing everclear.

 

[BigRigRob]

I've made "Green Dragon" many times & it sure works for me ( and all my friends ).

http://www.greendragon.lhosting.info/

 

[GET MO]

does it matter if the water bath is over 160? why?

 

[gmanwho]

does it matter if the water bath is over 160? why?

if i remember correctly alcohol boils at 168.f . and i believe its the alcohol suspension where u actually place the thermometer.

there is a great tincture article that bigrigrob posted above in a link, post #25. GOOD READ

I found i can use less then 2oz of everclear to 1/8th.

I boil it longer to reduce the alcohol as well. grains some potent shit.

i found that cooking it prior to boiling it will make it much stronger. different effects for sure in my experience. had the tincture to 1/2tsp and it was still overpowering for normal situations for me. to each is own thou.

B-safe

 

[GET MO]

But if it gets to 200 or 250 will it loose potency?

 

[BigRigRob]

If it gets too hot, the alcohol just boils away. Trust me, if ya follow the directions, it works well!.

 

[slowandeasy]

Green Dragon is not tincture, it is a drink. If u want it to be more potent, boil some of the useless everclear off. But the best way is to Make BHO first out of your material, then when it is done add a lil Everclear to the jar. Put some veg oil in a pan, and get the oil to 230 degrees. Now double boil over 90 percent of that Everclear off, by keeping the temps of the oil bath between 230-240 F for about 30 min.

When you are done, there will be very little left in the jar....but what is left will work very well. Made some more last night, and 2 drops under the tounge had me feeling the effects from 6 pm and still felt it when I passed out at 230 am.

Using the BHO seems to work much better imo. BHO will strip your plant much better than just Everclear. The tincture will be Golden, where it would be Green if done with just Everclear. Doing it this way also uses much less Everclear, which I cannot get here at all...so I try not to waste it. Here is a chart about how temperature effects potency. 160 degrees F will take you all night to get the most out of it.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=2624922&postcount=31

Trust whomever you want, but I have had alot of practice lately on making tincture. If you do not double boil some of that Everclear off you will not like it nearly as much. Green dragon must be mixed with something, tastes like ass, and the dosage is not consistant. Tincture is the reduced version of green dragon. Good luck, and look at that chart...things should make more sense.

BTW, also read up on Gray Wolf's posts about tincture. He helped me out like I am helping you. I was not happy with results, until I did it his way. Good luck.

 

[BigRigRob]

My bad, I thought they were the same thing
I rekon I need to do more reading here, I've learned much already. Keep up the good work y'all.

 

[grumio]

Hello again, Slow& -

You mention that you can't get 190 Everclear where you live. I can't either. I did buy a 1.75 liter bottle of it in North Carolina, shipped it back, & used it for tincture. I can't say I noticed a big enough difference in results to justify the expense & hassle of getting full strength Everclear as opposed to 151 Everclear. I'd use 190 if I could get it easily, & maybe it makes a bigger difference with your BHO method, but 151 seems to work just fine for me.

I found "Potter's West Indies Rum," 151, at BevMo, for a couple of bucks less than 151 Everclear, & decided to give it a try. Works a treat.

Also, just to quibble, Green Dragon is tincture. ; )

 

[boroboro]

...snip...
Here is a chart about how temperature effects potency. 160 degrees F will take you all night to get the most out of it.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=2624922&postcount=31

Trust whomever you want, but I have had alot of practice lately on making tincture. If you do not double boil some of that Everclear off you will not like it nearly as much. Green dragon must be mixed with something, tastes like ass, and the dosage is not consistant. Tincture is the reduced version of green dragon. Good luck, and look at that chart...things should make more sense.

BTW, also read up on Gray Wolf's posts about tincture. He helped me out like I am helping you. I was not happy with results, until I did it his way. Good luck.

Hey, thanks for the link to that chart, slowandeasy, I missed that the first time around. Glad that it confirms my preference for extended simmering. I've become fond putting a sealed jar of alcohol+cannabis in a pot of water, and simmering for a long time.

About consistency, or lack of it: This is why I don't reduce my Green Dragon, but leave it 'weak' with the full alcohol content that I started cooking with. I usually get an effective 'dose' that ranges from 5-8 droppers full (about 5-8ml). That's a pretty broad range, and I usually get close enough to the target that I get the right dose. I prefer a moderate dose, not using a lot of Green Dragon (I can't really function with a big dose, and I need to be straight enough to talk to people 24x7). Anyway, I like counting droppers full of green dragon better than counting individual drops in a concentrated tincture. YMMV

'tastes like ass': I suppose I agree, although I'm not very familiar with the taste of ass. I just mix well into a cup of tea, coffee, beer, etc.

 

[robotwithdreams]

gray wolf and slowandeasy, thank you so much for your contributions. And those that make tincture and use it sublingualy, do you find the effects to come on quicker than when you digest it via drops in drink, etc. Ive read others claiming sublingual dose should come on in 10-15 min, as opposed to digesting it which takes longer, 45-60 minutes.
True or bullshit?

 

[slowandeasy]

robot,
You will get mild effects in 10-15 min, but full effects still take a little time to get into your bloodstream. But when it does, it is stronger and lasts longer in my experience.

Grumio, Green Dragon does not get reduced. I guess you could maybe consider it a tincture...but imho tincture should take drops...not Droppers full. Tincture is concentrated, Green Dragon is not. But if Wiki says it its, it must be true.

boroboro,
Whatever works for you, that is all that matters. The alcohol just dilutes it, and imho does not work as well. If u like the mild effects and drinking it, cool man.

 

[grumio]

Grumio, Green Dragon does not get reduced. I guess you could maybe consider it a tincture...but imho tincture should take drops...not Droppers full. Tincture is concentrated, Green Dragon is not. But if Wiki says it its, it must be true.

"A solution of a medicinal substance in an alcoholic menstruum," according to my dictionary.

If you're keen to differentiate what you make from "Green Dragon," maybe you could call it "hash oil drops," which would be accurate. But strictly speaking they are both tincture.

No offense intended. This is a pretty trivial matter.

 

[slowandeasy]

"A solution of a medicinal substance in an alcoholic menstruum," according to my dictionary.

If you're keen to differentiate what you make from "Green Dragon," maybe you could call it "hash oil drops," which would be accurate. But strictly speaking they are both tincture.

No offense intended. This is a pretty trivial matter.

Call it what you want, as long as it works. By definition, yes it is a tincture. You are correct sir! It has the same amount of THC, just more menstruum. But when I think of tincture it is in drops, not droppers. Anyone who makes Green Dragon and expects to get effects from 2 drops will be highly disappointed. It will take droppers full instead of drops. The extra alcohol serves no purpose. To each is own.

 

[kathleen]

Your 8 oz of Everclear is no where near saturation and it is most likely is the material you see on the bottom is the stuff that was finer than your filter.

I rough filter through panty hose and then a permanent metal coffee type filter, but always follow up with a paper coffee filter before cooking and while the liquid is still thin. I find that I lose too much resin if I wait until it is more concentrated to final filter.

Your mix contains enough just alcohol to get a buzz, so you might consider reducing it by boiling. It doesn’t take much alcohol to suspend the extracted oil.

If you are boiling in a canning jar, just put a 1/8” NPT bulkhead fitting in a jar lid and you can even recover the alcohol to use again by making a cheap ice water condenser out of some tubing and a pan of ice water.

Get the jar up off the bottom of the pan using a stack or lids or something to isolate it.

I also recommend that you forget about cold ethanol extraction and either do it hot, or do a pre extraction with petroleum.

I make alcohol tinctures in various forms for a MMJ program using 190 proof Everclear. Two drops in its most potent form is typically enough to medicate a patient orally, and painted on a rolling paper and allowed to flash off, it changes ordinary smoking herb into two toke super weed.

The cold ethanol extraction process that you are experimenting with doesn’t extract all the cannabinoids short of days of processing and also extracts the plant waxes, vegetable oil, pureens, water, etc.

I don't know about you, but the combination tastes super greeeeeeen to me and the patients in the testing panel.

If you will cook the herb for about thirty minutes and decant and reserve the liquid about four times, and then reduce that wash the point that when you swirl it, it leaves green roily material on the side of the jar, it will produce a rather tasty and distinctive floral berry flavor at about two dropper (not drops) full per 8 ounces of a Frappuccino drink, but will burn the end of your tongue and leave a bitter aftertaste if ingested sublingually.

That after taste moves us on to the next step, and that is how to get rid of that gawwwwwd awful greeeeeen chlorophyll essence of cow pie flavor. While cooking it boils off the pureens and breaks down the chlorophyll, it is still bitter in concentration and stains badly when used as a topical.

You can soak the plant material in warm water and squeeze it out several times, but besides being a pain, it also washes away some of the trichomes.

Aging the material will also break down the chlorophyll, but the most effective way that I have found is to just start with kief or bubble hash. Most of the plant material is gone that contains chlorophyll, so it becomes pretty much a non issue. I just boil the hash in Everclear, filter it, and reduce down the liquid the same as if I had used plant material.

That is how I produce the concentrated infused Good-Night-Irene oil tinctures for a cancer project that is typically a two drops to sleepy time medication. I infuse the oil from 28 grams of bubble hash into 100 milliliters of menstruum oil like sesame or almond.

Far more popular than the above Good-Night-Irene infused oils, are the speedy alcohol suspended tinctures that I first extract using butane or hexane and then re-dissolve in Everclear, before cooking back down to a super saturated solution.

Most of the 190 proof is gone, so it can be used sublingually without ulcerating your mouth and leaves no chlorophyll aftertaste, so it can also be used to improve whatever your drink of choice is, without adding eau de barnyard flavoids.

It makes the fastest topical delivery I have found yet and when painted on rolling paper and allowed to flash, it leaves the paper transparently amber, with a delightfully potent oily film, which imparts a pleasant flavor, with a lowered cough index.

Gray Wolf

Dear Gray Wolf,
Thank you for this post! I am treating several problems with mmj, including skin cancer, and I make all my tinctures and salves. My finances are tight so I'm working with tiny amounts of herb, including trim and most recently, I'm experimenting with tincturing herb that has been processed for bubble hash. If you are still posting to this site I'd like to discuss in more detail some of the things you mention, like how to recognize when Everclear is saturated. Thanks, Kathleen

 

[Moondog]

Deleted

 

[TripleAOnly]

new tincture:

fill tube with 4-7 girls of green. place coffee filter on one end. Run butane through tube let it run thru filter. put it only a pan... burn off butane.

Voila: 99% active ingredient oil