The ultimate beginner's guide to PC FANS

[Strangely]

ha ha glad you liked the icon! I just copied and pasted your icon to check the dimensions, so whilst I was there!

Matting, schmatting, it's just a carbon related word I remember reading! I'll look into 'granulated activated carbon' but I doubt any shops sell it, even the hydro stores push the off the shelf filters, not seen 'granulated activated carbon' on any of there websites.

Don't want to buy online for a) the obvious anti stealth reasons b) the numerous (you included I think, might have made that up!) stories of non-activated turning up.

Don't really want to buy seeds online either but I'll probably have to bite the bullet there!

 

[Strangely]

Howdy Scrub. This looks possible, they're Paypal'd up...

http://www.activatedcarbontrading.co.uk/2.html

If I could get a tight enough mesh to hold the pellets (smaller than 4mm) I could leave the matting and airflow would be nice and unrestricted.

I'll get my head down in the DIY carbon filter threads I've been ignoring...

 

[kodman111]

I just wanted to stop by and give props yet again. I used the information from this post yesterday to setup my new PC fan. Made things a lot easier.

 

[ScrubNinja]

Strangely - I don't mean to alarm you, and don't look around whatever you do, but I think someone else may be in this thread besides us! Just messin'. Glad it helped, kod.

About the carbon - that looks perfect! That's a very similar price as the local supply I found - AKA "finishing carbon" at a home brew store. I think 1kg would probably be enough if you use the 15 x 30cm area

I use fibreglass or metal insect screen or fly mesh however you want to call it - works great. Just wash the carbon first as it massively reduces carbon dust and finer pieces falling thru the screen to basically zero, and just makes it a lot more pleasant to handle and breathe. The carbon pad is a good choice to use as a pre-filter so your carbon doesn't get clogged up with dust. With so much air being forced through the filter 24/7 it's jaw dropping how much debris collects even after a week, let alone 3 months.

Oh and I dunno wtf was going on but yes, I had some very annoying problems with obtaining true activated carbon from local pet stores and online pet stores. I have no idea why but it's very very rare to see activated carbon in a pet store here, and when there is some, it's the pelletised type. All the carbon is regular non activated. It's crazy but that's just how it is. The only possible reason I can think of is that not many people do salt water fish here because expensive chillers are needed. So maybe activated carbon is only used for salt water aquariums...or something?

 

[ScrubNinja]

Hey btw you might be right about the posts and changing avatar, not sure. In my Edit Avatar it gives "Option 2 - Upload Image From Your Computer". I had to delete the old one before it'd show the new one.

I just changed mine, cheers

and also...

 

[Strangely]

hahaha yeah sorry mate, I was monopolising you there somewhat eh!!

Not got much insect screen options about on our wet little island. But I get what you mean, I'll keep my eyes peeled, same goes for the carbon pad, and see if I can pick up what I need on the highstreet.

Stoked you're Laser-Cat!! I'll have another look around the avatar setting once I've racked up 50+ posts...

Cheers for all your help!!! I let the others get a word in now!

 

[kodman111]

LOL at laser eyes.

is that the new model?

 

[ScrubNinja]

Those are high efficiency LEDs.

 

[ScrubNinja]

Some links

Thermaltake XTuner IR Wireless Fan Controller - I was ready to snap this up but I doubt it works through walls like I want.

Youtube is actually good for something other than cats playing the organ. Type in your prospective fan purchase and a review may be there.

3DGAMEMAN is my favourite reviewer because like, wtf. I was thrilled to see he had reviewed the Cooler Master Aero 7+. Mine didn't come with any of that, just the fan and connected speed dial. Not even a knob for the dial.

DIY Speed Controller - simpler to buy one but someone may be interested.

An interesting article on general (larger scale) ventilation by DJ Short:

Let Them Breathe

Written By: DJ Short

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Proper ventilation and air circulation are essential to growing healthy, happy plants.

An important aspect to consider when growing plants indoors is proper ventilation, air circulation and temperature control. This practice becomes especially necessary when working with lights over 400 watts, in very small spaces, any time the temperature exceeds 32°C (90°F), or if the humidity gets too high.

The Perfect Temperature
Though sense of feel is adequate to gauge the "perfect climate" for a given plant, there is no real substitute for a thermometer and humidity gauge.

Thermometers are cheap and accurate enough for our purposes. I usually employ several thermometers in different areas in and around the grow room. Somewhere between 32-35°C (90-95°F) is the absolute highest room temperature your plants would care to tolerate. The perfect temperature would be somewhere between 24-29°C (75-85°F). Peaks of 38°C (100°F) are allowable for most strains, but not for any longer than a half hour or so. And only above the root level.

Roots and Aeration
The main area of concern involving temperature are the roots of the plants. Ideally, the roots should be kept at as constant a temperature below 21°C and above 10°C (70-50°F) as possible. The fact that warm air rises and cool air sinks works to our advantage in this case. Also, the plants end up under the larger lights by the flowering cycle, and so they're usually large enough to help shade and cool their root areas.

Still, some rooms build up sufficient heat to require a separate circulating fan, or fans, focused specifically on the root systems. A soil thermometer may be a wise investment.

Proper aeration of organic based soils is crucial in high temp/humidity areas. Perlite and vermiculite, are the tips here – add more to the soil if need be. In hydroponic systems make sure that the nutrient water temp is below 21°C (70°F). If necessary, store the reservoir outside of or below the grow room.

Squirrel Cage and House Fans
There are many different types of fans and air movers available on the market. Most fans can be purchased at the average home improvement store. Proper research and smart shopping will net the best purchases. Careful planning will help avoid costly mistakes. Using the "hot air rises, cool air drops" rule, one can figure out the right solution.

The two most common types of fan are the squirrel-cage and what I call the "common house fan" (box or oscillating fans). Both come in a seeming endless variety of shapes and sizes. Generally speaking, squirrel-cage fans move air either in and/or out of the room, while common house fans move the air up, down and around the room. There are also neat little "muffin" fans that can be used for many things such as light-hood venting and passive ventilation systems.

A passive ventilation system is one that moves air either in out of room (not both). The room is not sealed and so air exchange is allowed free movement from inside and outside the room.

Squirrel Cages
The squirrel-cage fan is the most popular fan for moving large volumes of air into or out of a room or rooms. A common placement for this fan is inside of the room, up high, blowing out. This will help move the hot air out. This method is what is used to stimulate the passive intake of cool air with vent holes cut in the floor or lower walls to access the cooler areas outside of the room.

Other hardware such as dryer-vent tubing or muffin fans may be used to best access the cool, dry air outside of the grow room. It is a simple step further in this type of system to add an oscillating fan or two on the floor, pointing at any angle up, to help circulate the cooler air up and around the plants. This is the simplest of vent systems and works quite well. Choosing the correct squirrel-cage fan is part of the trick to success.

Measuring Air Movement
Squrrel cage fans are rated by their volume of air movement in cubic feet per minute or CFM. A fan with a rating of 100 CFM is able to move 100 cubic feet of air per minute. A room that is eight by ten feet and eight feet tall holds 8 X 10 X 8, or 640 cubic feet of air. Therefore, it would take an optimally running 100 CFM fan 6.4 minutes to fully circulate the air in that room.

Generally speaking, most fans move a little less than their rated CFM due to intake resistance or a dirty fan cage. Bigger fans usually will work more efficiently. Potentiometers, or a "volume control", could be installed in the power line of the larger fans to adjust the fan speed. This would give further aid in the specific control of air volume and ventilation.

Automation
The ideal ventilation system utilizes automation in the form of thermostats and regulators. A thermostat, as with the common household thermostat, would cause the fans to turn on at a certain temp, and turn off at another. That is, a sensor would turn on the fans on at around 30°C (86°F), and turn them off if the temperature dropped below 21°C (70°F). A well-stocked, high-tech grow shop will have several types of thermostats available in a variety of systems.

Box and Oscillating
Common summer house fans also come in a wide array of types and sizes. The most common being the box and the oscillating. Box fans are self explanatory. They can be used in a variety of ways, depending on the innovation and imagination of the user. Experimentation will yield the most efficient uses for these devices.

Oscillating fans are perhaps the most efficient devices for circulating air in a room. The gentle back and forth sway of the fan is very beneficial for the developing plants. These fans tend to keep anaerobic molds down by constantly freshening any potentially stagnant air. There are wall-mounted styles available as well. Home improvement centres carry a large array of various types and styles of air-moving fans, some relatively inexpensive.

A warning needs to be expressed concerning the cheaper, discount-store, oscillating fans (or any cheap fan for that matter) that have a tendency to burn out after a period of time. Some of these products are potentially dangerous if left plugged in and turned on after they burn out.

Therefore, it is a wise idea to check one's fans (and all electric devices and equipment for that matter) on a regular basis as often as possible.

Noise Concerns
Another fan consideration is noise. Some fans, especially the squirrel cage, may be a bit too noisy for a given situation. There are higher quality fans available that do run more quietly – expect to pay more, of course. It also helps to mount the fan directly to a main stud or support, by at least two of its support holes, and preferably more.

Rubber dampers and gaskets can be easily made and used on the support holes or around the overall mounting surface. Keep the fan's bearings sufficiently lubricated as well.

High Humidity
Humidity is another factor that influences the overall quality and quantity of a crop. Generally speaking, high humidity (over 80 or 90%) is bad. It inhibits plant transpiration and ultimately stunts growth. Mold and fungus love high humidity as well. Note that warmer air holds more moisture than cooler air.

There are a few simple practices to help reduce humidity. First and foremost, keep the room as dry as possible. When watering, use just as much as the plants need. Pump, siphon or mop up any remaining water and remove it from the room.

Keeping the room clean also helps. Moisture likes to hide and store itself in material such as dead leaves, spilled dirt or any garbage. Therefore, keeping the room clean and free of debris will help keep moisture and organisms such as mold, fungus and bacteria down.

Temperature and moisture levels directly affect the plant's ability to metabolize nutrients and supplements such as fertilizer and carbon dioxide.

If these practices fail to lower humidity enough, the only solution may be a de-humidifier. However, de-humidifiers are expensive, consume a large amount of electricity and produce heat. These factors will need to be considered in choosing whether or not to employ one.

Ventilation and Circulation are Essential
Proper ventilation and air circulation are essential to maintaining a healthy indoor grow environment. The basic rule of thumb is to move the warm, moist air out and to move the cool, dry air in and around the plants and their roots. Many various types of fans and devices are available to achieve this goal.

Careful planning, basic research and smart shopping will acquire all that one needs to keep it cool and dry, and experimentation will fine tune the system to provide the most perfect indoor environment possible.

 

[CloudNine]

Need some help guys.

I'm redesigning my exhaust from 3 dc fans to 1 ac fan so I can install a homemade carbon filter. I found this fan on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Rodale-AC-Axial...in_0?hash=item20acef120c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

I've searched for reviews around the net, but came up empty handed. Do you think this fan will be able to pull through my carbon filter?

I plan on having 3" outer diameter, 2" inner diameter filter, and 3" long. So the fan only needs to pull through about an inch of carbon.

If someone can give me some opinions on what you think, or maybe some good sites that give reviews for ac fans, that would be great.

Oh yea.. Why isn't this thread sticky?

 

[ScrubNinja]

Need some help guys.

I'm redesigning my exhaust from 3 dc fans to 1 ac fan so I can install a homemade carbon filter. I found this fan on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Rodale-AC-Axial...in_0?hash=item20acef120c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

I've searched for reviews around the net, but came up empty handed. Do you think this fan will be able to pull through my carbon filter?

I plan on having 3" outer diameter, 2" inner diameter filter, and 3" long. So the fan only needs to pull through about an inch of carbon.

If someone can give me some opinions on what you think, or maybe some good sites that give reviews for ac fans, that would be great.

Oh yea.. Why isn't this thread sticky?

Hey buddy, this seems like a decent-ish fan. It's vaguely comparible to the Smart Case Fan II I use. I worked it out as having 7.112 mmh20 which is far better than the 2 or so you'll get with an average fan. It's a little louder, blows a little less cfm, but generally similar to the Thermaltake - just no speed cotroller.

Now, I'm pretty sure it's 120mm round so that equals 4.7 inches. The inner diameter of your filter is 2 inches. You need your filter's inner diameter to be equal or greater than 4.7 inches or it's just gonna choke the flow.

Also, you may need a speed controller because it will be loud. 47db is quite loud and enough for people to ask why your PC (or whatever) is so unusually loud.

Me personally, I'd get a thermaltake simply because I'm familiar with them and I like them, and they have speed control. If your heart is set on 38mm thickness and/or AC power, I'd look at a more popular brand such as Delta or Sunon. D.i.Try has a little info in his thread on setting up some AC Sunons with a speed control.

Hope this helps.

 

[CloudNine]

Damn I was planning to make a reducer to narrow the fan down so I wouldn't have to stick a huge filter in my pc case. Well 4.7" inner diameter isn't huge, but I'll have to have at least 5.5" outer diameter to have enough carbon to ensure it will work correctly.. 5.5" is kind of big when referring to a PC case.

Drop from 4 bulbs to 3..

I guess a little sacrifice for the greater good isn't going to kill me.

Middle of week 3 flowering, and I just can't procrastinate on the filter any longer.

I'll go shopping tomorrow for the supplies for the filter. The fan is already been shipped(Ebay guy is fast).

Got a question or two for anyone that wants to chime in.

Do you think reducing the fan from 4.7" to 4" would make to big of a problem? If not I can go with a 4" and a 5". nearly double the size of my previous plans.

A bigger filter means I'll have to take out one of my light fixtures.. Anyone know what dissolves epoxy? Paint thinner?

Anyone know the equation to determine mm/h20 based on a fans specs(amps,cfm,watts,etc)?

 

[ScrubNinja]

Hey bro, just my opinion, but f*k it, it's my thread Why not use the carbon screen idea I've been hammering on about. So if I got this right, and we assume a 4" inner diameter is okay, you have a 5" outer diameter, giving you half an inch thickness of carbon, and you can make it 3" long. Correct? Well that only gives you 37.8 sq inches. That's like a carbon screen that's 6.1 inches x 6.1 inches, and half an inch thick. If you think inside the box, it's often not hard to figure out how to fit a screen bigger than 6x6" into a PC and thus have a better, less restrictive filter, and one that fits exactly into whatever dimension you give it. It has the potential to be very low profile. Tubular carbon filters only come into their own when they are a long length and to me they make no sense for micro grows. Again, D.i. has done a screen filter design in his pc.

Have you got a thread or pics up, C9?

"Anyone know what dissolves epoxy?" - a hammer! Nah, I dunno sorry mate.

BTW here is a great link for anyone working on ventilation: Area, Radius, Diameter, Circumference. Doesn't look like much but it saves me days of time. Cloud, if we look - a 4.7" hole is 17.3 sq in. A 4" hole is 12.6 sq in. So, that's an indication how much you'll lose. It's quite a bit.

 

[CloudNine]

No.. no thread no pics unfortunately. I might try, and get some up after I get the carbon filter installed.

Alright lets scratch the tubular filter idea. Due to major changes I'd have to make, and it's inefficiency in a small size.

Let me know your opinion of this idea.

Gut 2 fans of the same dimensions as the one I bought. One will be a spacer, one will be filled with carbon pellets, and covered in metal mesh window screen type stuff I got laying around. As long as the mesh is strong enough to support the carbon in an upright position, and not let it settle it should work.. right?

Secure them all together with some rubber gaskets.. Bada bing.. I got a good idea yet SN?

This way I won't have to remove any lights.

 

[ScrubNinja]

Woah, slow your roll, cowboy That is crazy! That way you'll only have 17.3 sq in of area! Versus the 37.8 sq in of the tubular filter, versus the 127.5 or so that you potentially have (those dimensions are for the back of the PC I'm typing on.)

Also, it will settle - this should be allowed for in design so it doesn't quit working.

 

[CloudNine]

I can't go big with a thin square filter due to fans I have installed to direct airflow.

So I'm basically down to the two options in the picture. (Look passed my pro paint skills please)

The one on of the left is the most realistic for me. I'll have to wait till lights on to get exact measurements of how big I can go, but it's about 5" width, 8" length, 3.5" thick(Including fan depth).

The one on the right isn't impossible, but will take a lot more ingenuity. Harder to make since the back of the case isn't exact flat, and mainly harder to seal properly.

What do you think?

-Edit-
The reducer on the left side is supposed to be covering the entire back of the filter(Silly me..)

 

[ScrubNinja]

Incidentally, I'm waiting on some new fans at the moment! They're for my server case. They are blower fans like the cooler master aero but slightly better specced and cheap as dirt (possibly discontinued?). The Thermaltake SB Pro #1. Even at low speed (25 decibels) it gives 5.71 mmh2o. At full speed, which is slightly quieter than yours, I'll have 10.17 mmh2o. I think the low CFMs freak people out with these fans but all I can say about the cooler master aero at least, is that it feels to me more like 80 cfm, at least.

Anyway, that's the fans I went with for a PC. We'll see if they're much chop.

 

[ScrubNinja]

Hey man, the one on the left looks "ok" but you're not gaining much over the original tube design. The one on the right needs air between the fan and the carbon.

Please note: I like to ENFORCE the RULES when it comes to ventilation - frankly my advice is chuck it out and get a bigger case or do whatever you need to do to have the carbon filter as the number one priority. It's the number one blockage to the flow so it should be given just as much priority as your lights, or intake sizes, or whatever.

But, at the same time, not everyone follows the rules. I can only tell you what you need for an efficient system. There are plenty of inefficient systems around and they get their bud at the end of the day, so I would encourage you to try things and get an idea how important efficiency is for yourself. Just my but as soon as you start saying "I can afford to lose a bit here" or "I will just have to make do with this like it is" and making compromises, they will compound and cause bad reactions further along which may in turn create all new problems. Already we have an issue where you may have to remove lights and can't fit shit in, and this is before we've even become inefficient!

So that is why I'm so hardcore about it, but by all means, it can be done other ways.

 

[ScrubNinja]

My fans just turned up I bought a few things I forgot about and they're all Thermaltake! It looks like I'm a fanboy but it was the only good brand the store I was dealing with sold.

80mm XB Pro (2 of them)

92mm UFO with 92mm > 80mm adapter (specs here, what a strange fan!)

And some 80mm 45 degree ducting things.

BONUS LINK: Awwwww yeah, it's ya boy 3dgameman discussing computer mufflers and acoustic foam! Has a good demonstration of how well mufflers work on a very loud fan. I didn't even know you could get commercial mufflers and I think they would look pretty non suspicious if you matched the material to your pc case.

Please feel free to drop links to any interesting items.

Edit: I plugged the fans in - the XB Pro's are great! They don't have any LEDs which is good. The UFO thing is pretty close to useless. I see my mistake now - it's designed to deliver a full flow to a CPU like the blower designs, without a dead spot in the centre where the rotor is. It's good in that sense and may come in handy somewhere but overall, useless. Great LED flashing patterns though Maybe I can fit it in one of my real computers.

 

[Strangely]

80mm XB Pro (2 of them)

The NightRider fans are in !!