The Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

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Here is an article discussing & comparing the two proposals that have been filed in California. They both have very similar names...

http://www.examiner.com/x-14883-Santa-Cruz-County-Drug-Policy-Examiner~y2009m7d31-Alcohol-marijuana-tobacco-taxes-medicine-cannabis-and-confusion

Here are some salient points not mentioned before in comparing these two. Note the ROT 2010 is the Gang of Four version, which this article derides for good reason.

THC 2010 not ROT 2010

THC 2010 is the far superior initiative. Firstly, it retroactively "by operation of law expunges anyone convicted of a cannabis offense." It cleans the slate. ROT 2010 offers no amnesty to anyone.

THC 2010 decriminalizes hemp production and sales, ROT 2010 does not.

THC 2010 prohibits discrimination in healthcare, education, employment, retirement, or insurance. Housing, of primary concern to medical patients, particularly those subsisting on Social Security Disability, is not specified. However, in stark contrast to Oaksterdamn U's ROT 2010 which uses the phrase "without limitation" with regard to taxing, THC 2010 uses the phrase "not limited to" with regard to prohibiting discrimination, so prohibition of discrimination in housing is implied in THC 2010. ROT 2010 has no provision prohibiting discrimination because of marijuana.

I really like the last part and the Amnesty because we do need to "clean the slate" by ending the existing demonization of marijuana and marijuana users. Imagine having your cannabis covered under your health insurance! I already know of at least one grower who got paid off by his home insurance company because his cannabis crop was destroyed by cops. This is how it should be. Indeed it should be possible for growers to sue the police for discrimination if such a law is violated.

 

[Muleskinner]

This is great but the non-Oaksterdam guys have no money. IMO they should have just walked away and not started their own project. They're just going to confuse things and without the $1million to get on the ballot they're going nowhere. I'm sorry but we have stuff like this all the time in my state, you shouldn't file a referendum unless you have the cash to make it happen.

I think the Lee referendum has problems but it will still be great if it passes. Imagine if it passed 55 to 45. I think the important thing would be the vote. I think instead of going against the will of the people, the government will probably alter the new law right away to allow state taxes, other adjustments can be made later.

Just getting a victory on a legalization vote would be a huge victory for the whole country IMO.

 

[JackTheGrower]

This is great but the non-Oaksterdam guys have no money. IMO they should have just walked away and not started their own project. They're just going to confuse things and without the $1million to get on the ballot they're going nowhere. I'm sorry but we have stuff like this all the time in my state, you shouldn't file a referendum unless you have the cash to make it happen.

I think the Lee referendum has problems but it will still be great if it passes. Imagine if it passed 55 to 45. I think the important thing would be the vote. I think instead of going against the will of the people, the government will probably alter the new law right away to allow state taxes, other adjustments can be made later.

Just getting a victory on a legalization vote would be a huge victory for the whole country IMO.

I disagree with you. It isn't Oaksterdam's work! The TRCCA people are the original drafters not Oaksterdam!
Edit: Lee went his own way.

We are volunteering all over the State and no one is paid to vote!

The Tax, Regulate and Control Cannabis Act of 2010 Website has been updated and we are recruiting volunteers to gather signatures.

One difference between TRCCA 09-22 initiative and Okasterdam's 09-24 is the day after, if Oaksterdam's is law, you will still go to prison for Cannabis and those in prison will still be there!

Please California register to vote and sign The Tax, Regulate and Control Cannabis Act of 2010

Also TRCCA will fund public social needs that have been eliminated or reduced by budget issues.
I love my State! California is a wonderful State! lets make it better buy making upwards of 2 billion dollars available!

 

[Owl Mirror]

They will not be tax exempt as are all prescription drugs in the USA.
Indeed the alternative bill, AB390, by Tom Ammiano does just that. It legalizes marijuana use for all adults, but it exempts medical patients from the $50 an ounce tax.

I am very happy to see someone has offered an alternative Bill such as the one above.

Personally, I do not agree with this movement towards taxation as a vehicle for legalization. It is a very dangerous road, in fact it is precisely how Marijuana was forbidden in 1937.

Just ask Samuel R Caldwell, America's first victim of Marijuana prohibition.

 

[JackTheGrower]

I would like them to get rid of this $50 tax nonsense and 21 age limit... two big issues that I'm sure would be hard to change if put into law. $50 tax keeps the price artificially high and the 21 limit just keeps more college students criminals. Enough lose grants, scholarships etc or are straight kicked out due to cannabis offenses as is and I know a lot of colleges are in a huff that all their students are getting busted for alcohol charges due to being underage so we should avoid that problem altogether and make the age limit 18. Other than that, I like the "real cannabis act", as Jack so eloquently put it, better. But I will not support it due to it's previously stated inadequacies.

I agree taxes suck!

We have to pitch this to the people who are against legalization in any form.

I do know that in Amsterdam that buying a gram or five to smoke right then is plenty for one person or even to share in a coffee shop.
Perhaps that will be alright when we go out even with taxes on it.

I do believe we can grow all we care to at home and not just in a 5x5 area under "the Real Cannabis Act"(TRCCA2010 09-22).
I like that because some plants are more shade loving and some are more sun loving. To have to place them all in one spot is silly to say the least.

If you are a California Voter won't you have a second thought on this friend? Politics are often a compromise. There is much benefit to TRCCA2010 that is for the good of us all.

We have to start someplace TRCCA2010 is "a real fine way to start!" To Quote Led Zepplin!

 

[Fafafooey]

yes, the TCRCA sounds better to me too. You know what would be funny, if they BOTH passed! I wonder how that would be resolved?

EDIT: Although it seems like you guys have it a little wrong calling it TCRCA, I just looked at the link to the actual initiative and it seems to be called The Tax, Regulate and Control Cannabis Act of 2010, which would be acronymized as TRCCA, wouldn't it? I just want to try to help clarify, because its confusing enough. I almost wonder if having the two initiatives is the man's way to try to break the movement, lol

 

[JackTheGrower]

yes, the TCRCA sounds better to me too. You know what would be funny, if they BOTH passed! I wonder how that would be resolved?

EDIT: Although it seems like you guys have it a little wrong calling it TCRCA, I just looked at the link to the actual initiative and it seems to be called The Tax, Regulate and Control Cannabis Act of 2010, which would be acronymized as TRCCA, wouldn't it? I just want to try to help clarify, because its confusing enough. I almost wonder if having the two initiatives is the man's way to try to break the movement, lol

Opps my bad..

TR"si-si"A it is then! TR "yes yes" A

 

[Owl Mirror]

I agree taxes suck!
We have to start someplace TRCCA2010 !

While I could agree with your sentiment, I must counter it by asking, where will it end?
Once you begin down the taxation road, what is in place to keep politicians from constantly increasing this user tax?
Look at what happened recently with SCHIP (Health Care for Children).
I roll my own cigs because of the expense. I used to be able to purchase a bag for $20 which would garner two full cartons of rolled cigs. After the legislation recently approved for SCHIP passed, that same bag of tobacco now cost $65 !

How long do you believe it will take before this $50 tax is increased to $500 ?

 

[FreedomFGHTR]

Hrmmm... this is a tad bit strange...

My company is California Cannabis Incorporated. They are calling themselves California Cannabis Iniative. Furthermore they are also using the state bear as part of their logo. Is it me or do great minds think allike? And I can say this for certain as the ICMAG community knows,.. I was doing this before them.

Edit- even stranger their proposed initaive has 90% of the suggestions I reccomended on the richard lee version forums. Hrmmm....

 

[JackTheGrower]

Hrmmm... this is a tad bit strange...

My company is California Cannabis Incorporated. They are calling themselves California Cannabis Iniative. Furthermore they are also using the state bear as part of their logo. Is it me or do great minds think allike? And I can say this for certain as the ICMAG community knows,.. I was doing this before them.

Edit- even stranger their proposed initaive has 90% of the suggestions I reccomended on the richard lee version forums. Hrmmm....

I think some of my ideas are in there too.. Makes me proud.
I think the Icmag thread had an influence!

 

[JackTheGrower]

While I could agree with your sentiment, I must counter it by asking, where will it end?
Once you begin down the taxation road, what is in place to keep politicians from constantly increasing this user tax?
Look at what happened recently with SCHIP (Health Care for Children).
I roll my own cigs because of the expense. I used to be able to purchase a bag for $20 which would garner two full cartons of rolled cigs. After the legislation recently approved for SCHIP passed, that same bag of tobacco now cost $65 !

How long do you believe it will take before this $50 tax is increased to $500 ?

I don't know..

No tax on homegrown I believe.

 

[Owl Mirror]

I don't know..

No tax on homegrown I believe.

I wouldn't bet on that
Since tax revenue is the driving force, how long until home growing is deemed illegal and everyone is forced to make purchases so that the tax can be exponentially collected. I've heard the claim that it's similar to home-brew beer and wine but, unless it is stipulated in law, I wouldn't think it's a guarantee.

 

[JackTheGrower]

I wouldn't bet on that
Since tax revenue is the driving force, how long until home growing is deemed illegal and everyone is forced to make purchases so that the tax can be exponentially collected. I've heard the claim that it's similar to home-brew beer and wine but, unless it is stipulated in law, I wouldn't think it's a guarantee.

Ya-know I just don't know..

I'd hope for better.. did you see anything in the text?

 

[FreedomFGHTR]

I wouldn't bet on that
Since tax revenue is the driving force, how long until home growing is deemed illegal and everyone is forced to make purchases so that the tax can be exponentially collected. I've heard the claim that it's similar to home-brew beer and wine but, unless it is stipulated in law, I wouldn't think it's a guarantee.

Then go see a doctor and you won't have to worry about it.

 

[ChronJohn]

Ya-know I just don't know..

I'd hope for better.. did you see anything in the text?

From what I read in the text of the law, personal growers aren't subject to taxation as long as they fall under the criteria for a "reasonable personal grow". I emailed asking for clarification as to what that criteria is last night and no message back yet buts it's only been a day. Other than the age limit (I'd prefer 18 so college kids aren't still stigmatized as criminals) and $50 tax this law seems about perfect. You can carry around whatever amount you want, wherever you want, just don't smoke any in a school zone or on a bus.. the bill is only 4 pages long and not exactly college level reading so give it a read and decide for yourselves.. Jack I know you already posted but for those just now joining us here's a link:

http://californiacannabisinitiative.org/documents/initiativetext_000.pdf

it allows for personal growing, hemp cultivation, places to smoke and buy cannabis legally.. what more do we want?

 

[japican]

wow finally getting some where in politics .. YAY
Urgh taxes...

 

[ChronJohn]

I agree taxes suck!

We have to pitch this to the people who are against legalization in any form.

I do know that in Amsterdam that buying a gram or five to smoke right then is plenty for one person or even to share in a coffee shop.
Perhaps that will be alright when we go out even with taxes on it.

I do believe we can grow all we care to at home and not just in a 5x5 area under "the Real Cannabis Act"(TRCCA2010 09-22).
I like that because some plants are more shade loving and some are more sun loving. To have to place them all in one spot is silly to say the least.

If you are a California Voter won't you have a second thought on this friend? Politics are often a compromise. There is much benefit to TRCCA2010 that is for the good of us all.

We have to start someplace TRCCA2010 is "a real fine way to start!" To Quote Led Zepplin!

Sorry, when I posted again on the 2nd I failed to see that you responded to my first post. Unfortunately I am not a California citizen, so therefore not a California voter (yet!). If you saw my post on the 2nd, you'll see that after reviewing the full text of the law and comparing to Richard Lee's version, 9-22 definitely has my full support. I maintain that I don't agree with the age limit or the $50 tax, but as you stated we must make compromises. I plan on getting involved in the medical scene when I move out there anyways, so none of this will really affect me but I want as little more people to go through the HELL that is the criminal justice system as possible and getting 9-22 passed ASAP will do just that! TRCCA also allows for hemp cultivation/production which is a HUGE step in the right direction imo so Jack even though I do not live in California I know a lot who do and I will use my connections out there to try and help the movement as much as possible! Good luck Cali!!

 

[JackTheGrower]

srry I flaked on checking this thread..


NP and yes the TRCCA2010 is the real thing..

We are waiting for the State to finish their evaluation and we will start gathering signatures once that is done.

I know most of the readers are NOT in California but may I suggest that we all consider donating financially to TRCCA2010 californiacannabisinitiative.org

The ball has to start rolling some place.. Maybe paying it forward is a good idea?

Also any California folks reading this we need County Captains! Also signature gatherers.

This is a real thing and Grass Roots is our way.. No deep business pockets to buy our way...

If we can get a real legalization initiative into law then the USA will have a decent chance to have decent Cannabis laws.. If not I fear that Cannabis will be in the domain of big business only.. That's my take on 25 sq ft per property..

 

[newgrow]

Maybe I'm missing something but I do not understand the opposition to the $50 tax. If alcohol and tobacco are taxed the why not marijuana? Although it is the far lesser evil, all items similar in nature to it are taxed, and therefore the only way a government will go for it is if it too is taxed. Maybe someday the tax may be removed but either way its a great starting point. Good Luck from Australia

 

[SupraSPL]

A percentage tax would make more sense and would allow the free market to operate more normally. Of course there is always inflation which could make $50 a lot less valuable in the long run.