The search for a proper recovery pump..

[C'Ya]

I tried moving my after chiller coil to before pump and filter as a test it dropped temperature on IR thermometer to about 29F at filter inlet which filter was outside freezer so putting in freezer before coil should help assuming its restriction may generate some heat. I do not have a sight glass in-line to see if liquid was in the line though
Here are a couple more poorly made examples using ms paint.
This was a butane only run just for tests no material was being extracted

 

[cyphaman]

The caresaver is only 1600$ US dollars if they can ship it to us for a reasonable price. So not bad at all. They contacted me with these prices.

Please see below your ex-works prices in £STG:



Caresaver Universal Refrigerant Recovery Unit 230v: £988.00 each
Caresaver Universal Refrigerant Recovery Unit 110v: £992.00 each

I am so confused now. I guess I need to rely on myself for answers to these questions. Cheapest system designed for distilling butane ... Doing my homework.

 

[C'Ya]

cyphaman,
Caresaver uses hermetic style compressor which isn't oil-less so would require oil separator to help remove oil that may exit it, so not best choice since oil separator may not catch all.

 

[rb extractors]

not sure what you are confused about

 

[RegisPhilburn1]

Ya the caresaver is a no go, but if your dying to try it out id sell mine for 1k shipped. Mineral oil has no place in medicine

 

[cyphaman]

I guess both the process itself and equipment required to perform this process are what has me confused. I am just doing personal runs and want to take my time to distill canned butane multiple times in order to try and remove some mystery oil/heavier components.

I assumed I would need:

2 recovery tanks
1 cold trap
1 can tapper
1 recovery machine
hoses etc

the two I am confused with are the cold trap and recovery machine.

a) Skunkpharms cold trap is beyond my means of building, and so Im not sure what I could acquire or purchase that could replicate this. I can build something simple I figure, if all that is required is placing an order on Glacier Tanks.com

b) Why Is an oil-less recovery machine required if it can handle butane and such? This is NEW news to me, sorry I am not too familiar with HVAC. I actually thought the caresaver was the ultimate ideal machine, but clearly that is not the case. ETS uses this machine with their "hydrocarbon" extractors but they use propane.

I do appreciate anyone who can shed some insight. Cheers

 

[C'Ya]

That's a whole different thread or topic, that I believe has been covered in a more detailed thread, I do have an idea that should clean merc's out hopefully in one pass but have yet to write down, but will when get the time

 

[C'Ya]

b) Why Is an oil-less recovery machine required if it can handle butane and such? This is NEW news to me, sorry I am not too familiar with HVAC. I actually thought the caresaver was the ultimate ideal machine, but clearly that is not the case. ETS uses this machine with their "hydrocarbon" extractors but they use propane.

simple answer: because we don't want to remove mystery oil to just have the caresaver/oiled pump put it back in.

I'm sure caresaver is a great machine for freezers running r290 and R600a and more, but they use compatible oils in their compressors, but we don't want any oil in are solvent

 

[C'Ya]

my bad
Our solvent

 

[cyphaman]

I see your point. I guess I still don't understand how a recovery pump could leak oil into the lines but Ill take it as it is

 

[C'Ya]

That's an easy one: parts fail to seal, than oil follows path of least resistance

 

[rb extractors]

it is the risk that it could leak oil and we wouldn't know it

 

[Gray Wolf]

I guess both the process itself and equipment required to perform this process are what has me confused. I am just doing personal runs and want to take my time to distill canned butane multiple times in order to try and remove some mystery oil/heavier components.

I assumed I would need:

2 recovery tanks
1 cold trap
1 can tapper
1 recovery machine
hoses etc

the two I am confused with are the cold trap and recovery machine.

a) Skunkpharms cold trap is beyond my means of building, and so Im not sure what I could acquire or purchase that could replicate this. I can build something simple I figure, if all that is required is placing an order on Glacier Tanks.com

b) Why Is an oil-less recovery machine required if it can handle butane and such? This is NEW news to me, sorry I am not too familiar with HVAC. I actually thought the caresaver was the ultimate ideal machine, but clearly that is not the case. ETS uses this machine with their "hydrocarbon" extractors but they use propane.

I do appreciate anyone who can shed some insight. Cheers

You don't need an elaborate cold trap. You need a tank that you inject the liquid into and remove it as a vapor, while keeping it below 100F and not vacuuming below zero gauge. I used a Lil Terp storage tank for the first MO cold trap.

An oil less pump, isolates the contents of the cylinders doing the pumping, from the oil in their cases and gear boxes, where a conventional refrigeration compressor or sliding vane vacuum pump allow the vapors to pass through the oil.

 

[Gray Wolf]

I see your point. I guess I still don't understand how a recovery pump could leak oil into the lines but Ill take it as it is

The butane vapors pass directly through the pump oil bath gear cases and refrigeration pumps have an oil separator to remove it afterwards. Rotary vane pumps just puke some of both out the exhaust.

 

[cyphaman]

You don't need an elaborate cold trap. You need a tank that you inject the liquid into and remove it as a vapor, while keeping it below 100F and not vacuuming below zero gauge. I used a Lil Terp storage tank for the first MO cold trap.

An oil less pump, isolates the contents of the cylinders doing the pumping, from the oil in their cases and gear boxes, where a conventional refrigeration compressor or sliding vane vacuum pump allow the vapors to pass through the oil.

Thank you GW, this totally clarifies it for me. Huge thanks to you and C'ya for the help!

I will take a look on Glacier tanks for something like this, taking into consideration the hosing and inputs for the Terpenators etc. if I need clues on adapters.

You guys are great, cheers.

 

[Breakover]

So, I am wondering if we could cannabilize a haskel air driven pump and convert it to electric.

We get an explosion proof motor, machine up a connecting rod, crankshaft, and gear box(if necessary), and voila!

Thoughts?

 

[Gray Wolf]

So, I am wondering if we could cannabilize a haskel air driven pump and convert it to electric.

We get an explosion proof motor, machine up a connecting rod, crankshaft, and gear box(if necessary), and voila!

Thoughts?

I've considered just cycling a simple pneumatic cylinder back and forth by mechanical means, and check valves to convert it to a pumping action.

 

[Breakover]

I've considered just cycling a simple pneumatic cylinder back and forth by mechanical means, and check valves to convert it to a pumping action.

Seems like that'd work just fine. Even a diaphragm style pump head may work.

It'd be nice to have at least a little bit of pressure sensitive automation on the pump similar to the control system on a caresaver.

 

[C'Ya]

I did a test with tr21 with sight glass at inlet connected to 3/8" 20' 20 ft coil immersed in low tox(pet safe) anti freeze bath than connecting to take apart filter/drier all in freezer except tr-21 end, hose from collection tank to drier. Sight glass showed vapor with liquid than going to vapor near end. I cant say it will make pump last longer, but pump before test was acting like it was hesitating before it would start with no load(sticking), now days later starts like it was brand new. Extra tubing didn't seem to effect recovery time but did increase vac down slightly, and the tr21 ran cooler than ever I could hold my hand on "HOT" printing on head no problem, ir temp gun showed about 90F after two tube run five passes each tube with after cooler after pump, r/c tank hit 36f at valve and on tank it was about 32f.
The bucket the coils are in was plastic which insulated the lowtox, so of to find a better bucket and/or add recirculating pump and coil in freezer to help chill the lowtox.
Thanks
C'Ya

 

[Gray Wolf]

Seems like that'd work just fine. Even a diaphragm style pump head may work.

It'd be nice to have at least a little bit of pressure sensitive automation on the pump similar to the control system on a caresaver.

It would be easy to control a mechanical pump motor with a pressure switch or transducer.

A diaphragm pump has its uses, but having a vacuum on one side of the diaphragm limits how much pressure you can have on the other, so I've ordered diaphragm pumps to experiment with a compound system.