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The recent invention of cannabis botany is a scam

Orange's Greenhouse

Active member
You're assuming a lot here and you're wrong, it is sublingual oil and really dosed at 30%, I know the producers.
So... still placebo but for different reasons?
"Knowing the producers" is not worth much. Unless you're operating the analytical machines yourself you're assuming that the test results are accurate. I wouldn't be so confident in lieu of regulation. Maybe there are significant amounts of delta-8- or delta-9-THC present. Those are reported as pain killers.
 

kro-magnon

Well-known member
Veteran
So... still placebo but for different reasons?
"Knowing the producers" is not worth much. Unless you're operating the analytical machines yourself you're assuming that the test results are accurate. I wouldn't be so confident in lieu of regulation. Maybe there are significant amounts of delta-8- or delta-9-THC present. Those are reported as pain killers.
Certainly worth much than you assuming wrongly, you don't know the product I talk about and create a wrong story and still try to be a smart ass, that's sad.
 

Orange's Greenhouse

Active member
Certainly worth much than you assuming wrongly, you don't know the product I talk about and create a wrong story and still try to be a smart ass, that's sad.
What is your problem? CBD has no analgesic effect. If there's benefit from consuming it it is due to placebo effect. Don't be surprised if liver damage is diagnosed after a year of using large CBD doses. Codein on the other hand has no organ toxicity.

I know what I would choose.
 

kro-magnon

Well-known member
Veteran
What is your problem? CBD has no analgesic effect. If there's benefit from consuming it it is due to placebo effect. Don't be surprised if liver damage is diagnosed after a year of using large CBD doses. Codein on the other hand has no organ toxicity.

I know what I would choose.
You're wrong again, there is some thesis proving the analgesic capacity of the CBD with patients using different types of painkiller who were able to reduce or stop the meds with undesirable side effects.
Codeine is highly addictive and has strong side effects, it will make you high as much as it will reduce pain like all opiates. CBD has not those side effects and I have not seen any proof of liver toxicity like you pretend and I'll take your word with a big grain of salt.
 

Cannagurl

New member
soo... did you read your studies or just chose headlines that you liked? I'm just skimming through. There's probably more to find.

The first has no methodology, how the literature was surveyed. There are also other red flags such as saying " CBD is generally considered safe", not substantiating that claim with a quotation and following it with a long list of studies that showed hepatotoxicity.
The second study is in an obscure journal, has no co-authors and is written by a doctor employed in a hospital. This raises generally eyebrows and warrants further scrutitiny of the paper. No methodology is described. It has too few citations to substantiate the claims it makes, e.g. a single 20 year old book is cited to prove a long list of adverse effects of "cannabis". Good scientific practice looks different. That the author is not a native english speaker and did not use the help of an editor is not looking good either. There are also strange assesments, such as calling a 15 % serious AE rate 'well tolerated' and not discussing a 20 % drop out rate in one study.
The third paper says it best with it's own words "studies with larger samples and specific objectives are required before definitive conclusions can be drawn."
The last site sells CBD and guess what? It's a miracle drug that solves all problems. how strange...

So, what is your point again? That CBD is well established in medical practice and not just one of many, many substances in clinical development that will probably fail? 90 % of all investigational substances entering the clinic fail, so that wouldn't be too surprising.


Lmao!


Read the paper. Oh yeah, it had that "you don't Even know statistics" statistics.

Do you understand what p values and the term "statistically significant" even mean?

A non English speaker authored a study? LMAO.

Well settles it then, if a non American authors research/primary literature is published in a peer reviewed journal...it must be fake! Lol

"There were statistically significant differences in the VAMS anxiety factor for the drug; CBD attenuated the anxiety experimentally induced by the SPST. Repeated-measures ANOVA showed significant differences in the drug for the variable related to tremor amplitude as recorded by the accelerometer."

Oh look, they got all "statistic-y" there at the end, with multiple citations of published peer reviewed research...yeah gotta be a sham!

But, I guess with your decades of education, published works, and hand on research in the field..you know best.
 

kro-magnon

Well-known member
Veteran
Uk. I know the manager in the local health food shop, her customers were apparently not happy when the product recall happened because these were the only brands that worked.
She said they were getting the same dissatisfied comments across the whole chain of shops, it’s the largest health food chain in the uk.
It's weird this could happen, normally the products sold in CBD are lab tested before reaching the shelves to be sure there is not too much THC, in France where I live it works this way anyway. The oil I got has around 0,3% THC, each batch is lab tested.
 

WyattHerbShiwa

Active member
There is no cannabis botany. Just botany. The recent invention of cannabis botany is a tool to exploit the cattle, it's a marketing strategy to get you to spend more money on products than you would need to. It's also there to create problems in your grow which you need more products to correct. In the end you have mediocre weed, and are dependant like slaves on corporate seed banks.

Cannabis is a c3 softwood, short-day plant, and is grown accordingly. The plant is unique, just as any other plant, but its environment it developed in (the earth) is not special to cannabis alone, but to all plant life.

You dont have to be the cattle.

Marijuana Horticulture. Robert Connell Clarke and Ed Rosenthal.
Its a book that has been around a while.
 

Cannagurl

New member
What is your problem? CBD has no analgesic effect. If there's benefit from consuming it it is due to placebo effect. Don't be surprised if liver damage is diagnosed after a year of using large CBD doses. Codein on the other hand has no organ toxicity.

I know what I would choose.

You would choose the the highly addictive opioid codeine (if that's what you meant) then go for it.

CBD does have analgesic attributes. Multiple clinical studies unequivocally prove that to be so.

Its Anti inflammatory properties alone can bring about cessation or decrease the severity of pain.

Inflammatory Diseases/disorders can affect every system of the human body.

Once again, I never said CBD Is a panacea for all disease, but to claim it has no beneficial attributes is incorrect.

I wouldn't take an antibiotic for a headache, a pulled muscle, or Parkinson's disease, but by no means does that infer that it that it doesn't have legitimate pharmacological value.

 
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H e d g e

Well-known member
It's weird this could happen, normally the products sold in CBD are lab tested before reaching the shelves to be sure there is not too much THC, in France where I live it works this way anyway. The oil I got has around 0,3% THC, each batch is lab tested.
At the time they claimed that because it was a new market testing was unreliable, the products that were recalled had previously been tested as legal but independent testing proved otherwise.
 

H e d g e

Well-known member
Anti inflammatory properties can bring about cessation or decrease the severity of pain.
Canflavin a and b are both potent water soluble anti inflammatories and are abundant in the vegetive tissue of the plant. Green smoothies made from fan leaves are very good for this and don’t have the unfortunate effect that cbd has of blocking the uptake of medicinal cannabinoids.
 
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Orange's Greenhouse

Active member
You're wrong again, there is some thesis proving the analgesic capacity of the CBD with patients using different types of painkiller who were able to reduce or stop the meds with undesirable side effects.
Codeine is highly addictive and has strong side effects, it will make you high as much as it will reduce pain like all opiates. CBD has not those side effects and I have not seen any proof of liver toxicity like you pretend and I'll take your word with a big grain of salt.
Pick your poison: addiction or liver damage.
Because you asked I even provided a link to an agency document that states that liver damage happens. This is the right type of document for this type of discussion. Posting underpowered studies with bad methodology proves nothing. Meta reviews are required to prove drug effects conclusively.

 

MROrganicGreenz

Active member
Pick your poison: addiction or liver damage.
Because you asked I even provided a link to an agency document that states that liver damage happens. This is the right type of document for this type of discussion. Posting underpowered studies with bad methodology proves nothing. Meta reviews are required to prove drug effects conclusively.

Am i stupid or is the FDA just saying that they observed liver damage, but they didn't actually test it? Its a warning based on observations. Could have been dozen other reasons. Or habe u got further data? Coz this link is just laughable
 

kro-magnon

Well-known member
Veteran
The mention of liver toxicity happen only with very high dosage, a few drops a day of oil at 30% won't cause liver damage. Most substances are toxic at high level, it's not that hard to stay in a safe zone with CBD. On the other hand taking codeine pills daily for more than a few weeks will trigger dependance for sure. And the side effects of codeines are much more problematic than CBD.
You have no real argument here so stop being ridicule.
 

Cannagurl

New member
Pick your poison: addiction or liver damage.
Because you asked I even provided a link to an agency document that states that liver damage happens. This is the right type of document for this type of discussion. Posting underpowered studies with bad methodology proves nothing. Meta reviews are required to prove drug effects conclusively.



"Underpowered" studies? LMAO!

I guess with Your decades of education, experience, knowledge, skills, abilities, the results of said independent research proven statistically significant and published in peer reviewed journals, you must be a highly regarded pharmacologist at the forefront of this field.

Well, that settles it, I'll take your word for it.
 

Cannagurl

New member
Am i stupid or is the FDA just saying that they observed liver damage, but they didn't actually test it? Its a warning based on observations. Could have been dozen other reasons. Or habe u got further data? Coz this link is just laughable

Don't question him, he knows best, and most certainly is addicted to opioids, thus spewing incoherent bro science.

No point in responding to this thread any longer.
 

Orange's Greenhouse

Active member
The mention of liver toxicity happen only with very high dosage, a few drops a day of oil at 30% won't cause liver damage. Most substances are toxic at high level, it's not that hard to stay in a safe zone with CBD. On the other hand taking codeine pills daily for more than a few weeks will trigger dependance for sure. And the side effects of codeines are much more problematic than CBD.
You have no real argument here so stop being ridicule.
What is your point? If you don't want to believe it then don't. But don't try to argue against stuff you don't read.
Liver toxicity was observed in the clinical studies towards approval for epilepsy (516 patients total). High dose means more than 10 mg/kg/day. That is 700 mg for an adult. A drop is around 0,1 mL, a few drops means three or more. So that's 300 mg or 100 mg CBD (or more). Where is your data that the NOAEL is between those two numbers?
For reference: a normal drug development program, that treats a non life threatining illness, is immediatly discontinued if even two cases of liver failure occur.

Am i stupid or is the FDA just saying that they observed liver damage, but they didn't actually test it? Its a warning based on observations. Could have been dozen other reasons. Or habe u got further data? Coz this link is just laughable
The FDA does not run their own clinical program. They evaluate the data that is presented to them. The european authority reached the same conclusion. Liver damage from CBD is preferable to exitus from epilepsy.
If your problem is their wording, that they only "observed", that then you will never take them seriously.
 

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