The Real History Of Northern Lights, Written By The Guys Who Did It

[CharlesU Farley]

I have previously posted this on another forum and have been reluctant to post it here on ICM, because I feel very passionate about this subject and have a tendency to over-react when anyone attempts to "educate" me on the history of Northern Lights. The post eventually led to me getting kicked off that forum and I don't want that to happen here. Explore the link to my first post here on ICM to view my passion and knowledge of the variety, and maybe/possibly you might understand why I feel this way.

I am also _overly_ sensitive when Baby Boomer Marketers use people's names who actually did the _work_ to develop Northern Lights, just to hawk their pollen chucked seeds, so they can make a buck.

Consequently, I will _not_ respond to anything posted in this thread. This post will speak for itself, because the words were actually _written_ by Nevil and NL Seattle Greg (NLSG), who are the individuals who created, developed, enhanced and standardized the variety now known as Northern Lights. They come from posts on the Mr. Nice forum and from here on ICM. Most have been deleted now for reasons that are too long and divisive to discuss in this post.

Here is info from that post:


That got me thinking, which is always dangerous, so I spent some time re-imaging my PC (Acronis TI images back to 2000's) multiple times and I compiled what has actually been said online, by those who actually did the fucking _work_ to create, develop and maintain NL. All of these quotes I saved with original URL's but because of admins shitcanning threads, they may or may not be live, I ain't gonna check 'em all. This is all from a cut and past MS Word doc that will probably not format well but I'll html highlight who said what. Some may be duplicates because they came from 4 or 5 hd images and trying to find this shit, cut and paste it to save and then re-compile in in a readable format and chronological fashion takes more time than I'm willing to do right now.

If you are really into NL and want to know more about it without a bunch of marketing bullshit and hype trying to get you to buy something, then read on and then you can draw your own conclusions, as I have:

The next post in this thread will be what NLSG actually posted in cannabis fora, hopefully to make it easier to tell who said what and occasionally when they said it:

 

[CharlesU Farley]

NL Seattle Greg Posted

Aloha, The 11 packets of seed Nevil received were graded the #1 ,2, 3, were 100% indica, #5 the clone I traded Herbie Nelson for was 50% Afghani & 50% Hawaiian sativa. The others #6-#11 were crosses with Columbian, Thai, and Mexican Sativas. Nevil then sold out to Ben, became partners with Arjan, and then hooked up with the Mr. Nice Crew

Aloha, I agree 100% the kristilon brown + calcium nitrate is a good combination. Here in the USA I use JR Peters who has a 16-4-17 that has it all in one bag.(N,P,K, Ca, Mg, S, Fe, Mn, B, Zn,Cu, Mo)

Aloha, Steve Murphy owned The Indoor Sun Shoppe in Seattle. NL #5 was a F1 hybrid in 1982.

Aloha, We use research like The Plant Analysis Handbook by Dr. Harry Mills, Dr.J. Benton Jones Jr.,Dr. Allen V. Barker they have the numbers for hundreds of different crops.

Aloha, What is the source the peters excel range??? The product is made in in the USA in Pennsylvania and they have been in business a long time.

Aloha, Don (aka the Indian) was from the Queets Tribe in Washington State who got injured on the job and needed a way to supplement his income. We set him up with lights substrate and strains and he worked for several years until his Son got out of the Army. Our relationship soured when Nevil tried the backdoor direct bypass me so all seeds to The Netherlands were halted for 30 years now. I sent bag-weed seed and kept the good strains in Seattle.

Aloha, Jorge & Sam like to talk too much about things they know nothing about. Sams ICMJ ? I lasted less than 24 hrs and got the forever boot. NL strains did not come from California period they brought nothing of value to Seattle. going to The Netherlands Nevil had Sams Skunk # 1, California Orange and Rob's Early Pearl along with the Afgani he collected with Clyde from LA on the trip to Kandahar when Clyde ODed on heroin. We were Vietnam Combat Veterans needing ptsd meds (sleep matters) so the focus was NL 1 to 5 with a beat this breeding program. The only strain of any interest was the Orange that was lost due to police raids

Aloha, Why would i have Nevil's strain I have been breeding since 1970 and he got NL from me? I sent seed to Sensi for free to Kees to promote competition

Aloha, The Northern Lights Crew was very small because of intense police pressure. It was all people from the Bellingham, Seattle, Olympia, and Portland area. And we were real wary of anyone who was not known. Paranoia ruled for good reasons as Nevil and Marc Emory found out.

Aloha, With the pure strain wide leaved short Afghan strains in Seattle pure strain seed started showing up in the mid 1970s the same time we were working out the details for HID lighting indoors. Nevil had the one he collected and the NL 1 & 2 from Seattle. Ask Nevil I have no clue what he did and it is real hard to speculate after all these years.

Aloha, Here is the way I traded for the original NL #5. After I was gifted 4 wide leaved pure afghani seeds I went to seed and started the Luther Burbank selection process to get superior female cuttings. I traded with my friend Herbie my pure strains and was blessed with one very nice mama that I took to seed and named #5. Having bud ,seed and cuttings of #5 was also nice! & then came Nevil and getting the seed for the medicine to my Vietnam Veteran Brothers and others who needed it. Herbie and i never went into detail and he said indica x hawaiian. Looking at the hybrid vigor it was a nice mix.

Aloha, Due to intense police pressure the NL #5 was lost after it had been shipped to the Netherlands to Nevil. Thanks to Ben, Nevil, Arjan, and Shantibaba this genetic base will be around for a long time. Here in Hawai'i i grow seed 95% of the time in my work

Aloha, Cannabis breeders are a small group of people who should use the energy we are gifted to work in harmony. We are group that has accomplished major advances and I like the brothers concept as opposed to the dog eat dog competition game.

Aloha, I breed seed for many years now and seed i get great results from 100% of the time when it hits the average joes & janes hands there can be problems without end. not the seeds problem it's the grower who is the problem 95% of the time. most do not have a clue how to water so they try to grow in swamp conditions and then blame the seed.

Aloha, The NL #5 seed I sent to Nevil was a cross. The cutting he was sent was the original from Herbie.

Aloha, The 11 strains were graded by height and flavor for indoor growing. The #1 was a short phenotype pure Indica from Afghaniatan as was #2,3, & 4. #5 to #11 was the Hybrids with the narrow leaved strains we worked with.

Aloha & Sam sounds like he is getting bored with it all? I do not have that problem at NL as every batch of seed brings something new and interesting. My Guru was Luther Burbank and with my Marine mentality I will be breeding to make things a little better until the day I die. Breeders Forever & Forever Breeders.

Aloha & George & Sam are incorrect. NL had nothing to do with California. And the Indian (Don Downes) was supplied with genetics by me including the NL#5 and the seed I propagated from the 4 seeds from Murphy.

All of these are from here: https://mrnice.nl/forum/threads/northern-lights-1-vs-northern-lights-5.12611/page-2

Aloha,

The base plants for the entire Seattle Northern Lights strains 1 to 10 was a batch of seed sent from Afghanistan that ended up in Herbie's employers hands who just happened to be an old friend from High School so I was able to get four seeds. Then I started doing seed crops of the pure Indica and crossing it with other strains from Nepal, Mexico, and Columbia.

I had clones and seed and NL#5 was Hawaiian x Steve Murphy's Afghani Strain that is what I sent to Nevil. Steve Murphy owned The Indoor Sun Shoppe in Seattle. NL #5 was a F1 hybrid in 1982.


Northern lights # 1 was Nevils Afghani crossed with the Seattle Afghan strain form Steve Murphy.


I have been breeding since 1970 and he got NL from me. I sent seed to Ben and Kees at Sensi too for giving me the nutrient formula for Grodan and Seattle water.


The 11 strains were graded by height and flavor for indoor growing. The #1 was a short phenotype pure Indica from Afghanistan as was #2,3, & 4. #5 to #11 were the Hybrids with the narrow leaved strains we worked with.


The 11 packets of seed Nevil received were graded the #1 ,2, 3, were 100% indica, #5 the clone I traded Herbie Nelson for was 50% Afghani & 50% Hawaiian sativa. The others #6-#11 were crosses with Columbian, Thai, and Mexican Sativas. Nevil then sold out to Ben, became partners with Arjan, and then hooked up with the Mr. Nice Crew.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7172832&postcount=69

http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/6-breede...rthern-lights-1-vs-northern-lights-5-a-6.html

 

[CharlesU Farley]

Nevil wrote:

When I first got the NL varieties, there were 8 types, 1-8.

They came with descriptions, which I published in my catalogue. These descriptions may not correlate with what later developed. The original intention was to purchase seeds from the US NL growers. It didn't work out and supply dried up. I kept the lines separate and inbred them. NL1 and NL2 stabilised into distinct types and NL5 only produced one unique individual.

NL1 was a full blood Afghan indica. One thick main stem, dark green leaves, modest yield with nuggety buds, a little coarse with good resin production, which when ripe went golden. The high was narcotic. The seeds ranged from tiny to massive. I used to love the big ones. Large fat heavily and darkly mottled seeds. Selecting for these seeds made this Afghan even coarser. It was fun to show people these seeds.

The best line of NL1 actually came from the smaller seeded types, better high and bud structure.

There weren't many pure indica lines around in those days. Big Bud, Hash Plant and G13 were pure indicas in my estimation, but were cuttings. NL1 was the only good pure Afghani male line I had.( there was Sams Afghani#1, but that was toxic in a bad way) The NL2 was a Kush.

I put the NL1 out there as a pure strain. I wasn't popular. People would tell me, "give me the pure strains", but if it cost them 10% of their yield they would complain, well try 50%.

The pure indica hybrids were more popular. NL1 x HP and NL1 x G13 were the best. At least people could use the word pure (very popular). But they were good!

The NL2 was IMO a NL version of Kush. More weight and that puffed up indica type of bud that NL5 had. The taste was very similar to the Kush4 that I remember as coming from Ortega. (correct me if I'm wrong Jim).The Ortega type was more what I would describe as a typical landrace although fairly consistent. I used an F4 NL2 male over the Kush4 to produce a vigorous hybrid that was true to type. It was the Kush4 that made me realise that the NL2 was primarily a Kush. The NL2 needed some fresh blood as the F5 wasn't as good as the F4. I had planned to take the Hybrid back to NL2 and as the NL2 had already been released I expected others would do the same. I must be living in my own world as it doesn't appear that anyone saw the connection that seemed obvious to me.
I never got any Kush from Sam. I did get another Afghan from him that was unrelated to A#1. It a was coarse large seeded variety with big calyxes, but lacking potency. I used that in the Black Domina (25%).
All the NL lines were from seed not cuttings, as was the Kush4.
N.



I expect that a lot of people holding what they believe to be pure indicas today, would find, if the truth be known, that the sire line traces back to NL1.

http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-s...-nevil-afghani-kush-lines-other-grail-11.html

That's right OS. I did go to the States later and pick up the original U.S. NL5 mother and it was as it was described to me, part Thai. But my NL5 didn't seem to have any Thai influence. I spent a lot of time analysing the NL lines, in particular NL5.



I only saw evidence of two indica male lines in the NL series and that was NL1 and NL2. My best bet was that NL5 was a combination of NL1 male line and US NL5 female. I guessed that US5 was 50% NL2. Northern Lights 2x5 was the best that I could do staying within the line (pure NL).



Northern Lights changed the face of cannabis genetics (and many a smoker), but it was mostly through NL5. You've got to marvel at fate for dropping that one extreme plant into the lap of a budding seed breeder.

http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-s...-nevil-afghani-kush-lines-other-grail-11.html



Neville's story:



https://overgrow.com/t/80s-story-of-nevils-the-seed-bank/1609

 

[CharlesU Farley]

I have absolutely no axe to grind here because this is what I believe to be the facts on the seeds I bought from Sensi in 2000 and that's all I need to know. It's from the Archivist post on mrnice.nl forum, who quite obviously has a history at Sensi. It's one of the most brutal eviscerations in a forum post I think I've ever seen.

I am almost positive Archivist is Ben Dronker's (Sensi Seed owner) son:

jim dankness said:
i'm a bit confused here: are you talking about the Sensi Seed Club (SSC)-- run by Dronkers et al-- or the Super Sativa Seed Club (SSSC), run by "Pim and Kees"?

Without the abbreviations:

Nevil did not run Super Sativa Seed Club
He was doing business with Sensi Seed Club prior to 1990, but the true identities behind Super Sativa Seed Club are a mystery.

Thanks for the reminder about 'Pim en Kees'. I had heard those names before, but I still have very few clues as to who they actually are/were.

zigzag said:
Archivist you appear to be the man with the answers, so what is the version that sensi sells and has it been "reworked" since back in the day ?

From a breeding perspective, if all the original parents and gene-stock are still available (as they are at Sensi Seeds), there's no reason to rework strains.
With the original parents, the time-tested strain can always be made to the original standard. Any reworking or re-breeding that produces new results might as well be released as a new strain.

It is a new strain if new parents are involved, and if there's one thing the cannabis seed community wants as much as classic strains, it's new strains.

Changing the makeup of an existing strain and selling it under the same name is undesirable from both perspectives - people seeking the original will not receive it and the breeder throws away the opportunity to release a new strain.

Making analogues (or straight-up fakes) of existing, well-known strains is the kind of trick employed by newer, less honest seed-sellers (many of whom don't breed anything, just rename bought seeds). Breeders with good stock don't need to do this.

The recent (cough!) confusion about Sensi's Northern Lights seed-strain is simply because JessE demanded to know if the current seed strain is 'the' Northern Lights, by which he meant NL 5x2.

It's true that NL 5x2 is widely loved, and one of the most popular NL lines. However, NL#1 has just as much claim to the crown, since it's more typically Afghani, is loved by as many old-timers and is not a hybrid of two different NL lines.

In the Nineties, NL#1 was sold as the Sensi Northern Lights seed-strain.
It was changed to NL 5x2 before the end of the Nineties, and this, to the best of my knowledge and according to the people who actually work with it, is what it remains.

It was partly those words "to the best of my knowledge" that caused the little storm-in-a-teacup further up in this thread. I suppose I should just be more definite and (potentially) less accurate in my answers, as certain sections of the community don't want the slightly ambiguous truth, they want collectible factoids.

If I wanted a more peaceful life, I would be better off presenting what I know as the cold, hard Truth. Working on the inside of the industry for half my life does give a good picture, but I've been here long enough and talked to enough of the original breeders to know that almost nothing in the canna-breeding world is 100% hard fact. It depends who you talk to.

The veteran breeders I have asked about NL over the years give the same answer - Sensi Northern Lights was NL#1 for a time, but was changed to NL 5x2 years ago.

However, since I haven't asked in recent years, I cannot state "it's NL 5x2" with 100% certainty (maybe only 99%); only the breeders actually making the seeds can be 100%.

Of course, 99% is fairly certain, and good enough for most enthusiasts. However, I have enough experience to avoid presenting what I know as the absolute Truth unless I have actual first-hand experience (cough!).

 

[CharlesU Farley]

If you've suffered through all these posts, you understand the passion of NL. I purposely put that info in separate posts because it was from those who were actually _there_ and did the _work_.

Here what _I_ believe:

NL Seattle Gregg created and developed Northern Lights because he needed it for PTSD

Nevil worked with all the numbers of NL, standardized and homogenized the varieties, recognized the ones that would be most successful commercially. Got busted and sold all his interest in cannabis seeds to Ben Dronkers who created Sensi.

Someone at Sensi decided NL1 should be marketed as NL but more insightful and creative individuals worked #2 and #5, homogenized and standardized it and through the cumulative effort of _all_ these individuals, created a fucking masterpiece of cannabis.

What makes NL _so_ special certainly isn't "bag appeal", it has very little of the smell component that is very popular now. It's doesn't look like all these frosty coated genetic/chemically engineered monstrosities created by colchicine, STS or whatever other bullshit chemical someone can try to make the plant look good but doesn't do a fucking thing for the _high_ you get consuming it.

Here's what makes it special to me and why I'm absolutely positive why NL Seattle Greg created it:

You can consume it and go about your normal daily activities in life and deal with shit.

For me, I can consume NL and read a book, lift weights, do intricate and complicated activities yet mentally focus... or just hang out with family and watch TV. There's no "couch lock", "paranoia",etc.

It is well balanced cannabis and if you live a well balance life, it's all the cannabis you will _ever_ need.

 

[midwestkid]

i would love to see pictures of your NL and hear your experiences with this plant...
how many lines do you hold? which one is your favorite? currently what is the best source for the "real deal"?

 

[Mimpi Manis]

What a nice change to see someone who actually knows some actual reliable info about the historical intricacies of strain origins. As an example: The amount of horseshit about Thai Stick (Buddha Stick) I see out there in what goes for the internet these days is extraordinary. Most of it coming from people who just repeat the nonsense oft repeated beforehand. Most of whom probably never got to try it. If you only knew just how amazingly good it was. (Never needed any bleedin' opium in it to be so either!). Grown by farmers who really knew their stuff all those decades ago. All those origin 'landrace' culivators are the real and actual giant shoulders we stand on. Unknown and under apprciated almost all of them. In the scheme of things, we're Johnny come lately's. Almost all of us. So thank you Mr Farley for filling in some of those deep pot holes in relation to this particular fork in the road. A lot is also owed to these dedicated outliers and risk takers. Salute'

 

[Roms]

Resumed in three words : Classic Afghan Landrace

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Good to see

If you've suffered through all these posts, you understand the passion of NL. I purposely put that info in separate posts because it was from those who were actually _there_ and did the _work_.

Here what _I_ believe:

NL Seattle Gregg created and developed Northern Lights because he needed it for PTSD

Nevil worked with all the numbers of NL, standardized and homogenized the varieties, recognized the ones that would be most successful commercially. Got busted and sold all his interest in cannabis seeds to Ben Dronkers who created Sensi.

Someone at Sensi decided NL1 should be marketed as NL but more insightful and creative individuals worked #2 and #5, homogenized and standardized it and through the cumulative effort of _all_ these individuals, created a fucking masterpiece of cannabis.

What makes NL _so_ special certainly isn't "bag appeal", it has very little of the smell component that is very popular now. It's doesn't look like all these frosty coated genetic/chemically engineered monstrosities created by colchicine, STS or whatever other bullshit chemical someone can try to make the plant look good but doesn't do a fucking thing for the _high_ you get consuming it.

Here's what makes it special to me and why I'm absolutely positive why NL Seattle Greg created it:

You can consume it and go about your normal daily activities in life and deal with shit.

For me, I can consume NL and read a book, lift weights, do intricate and complicated activities yet mentally focus... or just hang out with family and watch TV. There's no "couch lock", "paranoia",etc.

It is well balanced cannabis and if you live a well balance life, it's all the cannabis you will _ever_ need.

Good to see such passion for NL - one of the base varieties - that spawned a host of other varieties - I've grown NL#2 (Oasis) probably around 1995 - and that was a great yielder - and good day bud -

 

[heirloomganja]

Is from the book about Northern Lights.

 

[Shmavis]

For some time now I have been curious as to why some folks say NL#2 has Thai in it…? I haven’t went completely down the NL rabbit hole but what I have read, confirmed by what’s posted above, says otherwise.

Haven't seen EB around in a while but it was always my impression/understanding that he was one of the most knowledgable members about NL history.

G`day MJTI

For Thai in Northern Lights . Look for NL #7-#8-#9

The # system was a degree of Sativa in the cross .
NL#1 was NL affie x Afhgani #1 #.
The # system went all the way up the scale with Colombian , Thai and Indian crosses .

NL #5 was the NL Affie x Hawaiian then Bxd . That was the legendary NL #5 and it was a clone .

That info is from Mr NL .

Nevil mis informed us about Thai in NL ...

Thanks for sharin

EB .

So, if I am reading EB correctly, at some point Nevil (incorrectly) said NL #2 has Thai in it and that's why some still think that?

 

[heirloomganja]

Murphys afghan x Nevs Mazar = NL1

Murphys afghan x Indians gear = NL2

Murphys afghan x Hawaiian = NL5

Murphys afghan x Nepalese

Murphys afghan x Thai

Murphys afghan x Colombian

 

[therealpacific]

Murphys afghan x Nevs Mazar = NL1

Murphys afghan x Indians gear = NL2

Murphys afghan x Hawaiian = NL5

Murphys afghan x Nepalese

Murphys afghan x Thai

Murphys afghan x Colombian

I have NL1 from Deep Ellum and right on the pack it said Seattle Afghan x Mazar. Which is what you have posted. Probably as close to the real deal as an average human such as myself will ever get. lol.

 

[Tranquilidade]

View attachment 18986316 View attachment 18986317
Is from the book about Northern Lights.

Which book and which NLs are in the these photos?

 

[heirloomganja]

That is Steve Murphy's Afghan, but you can better ask Todd, what the title of that book is. He has that book in possession.

 

[CharlesU Farley]

Nevil's description of NL1 from another forum:

"NL1 had coarser dark green leaves, was more inclined to grow one main bud with little branching, the stem was very sturdy. It had a more narcotic high. The buds were more nugget like, The resin went yellow more quickly and the stalked glands were not as pronounced as with the NL5. It was a more Indica dominant plant.

N."

Notice the wording is " Indica dominant" and not "_purest_ Indica"? One are the words of a cannabis botanist, the other words are from a seed slinging, marketing huckster who uses Steve Murphy's name in the most abhorent way, just to sell a product.

For Boomers, By Boomers, For Money

Schmavis,

Don't know your nym and don't want to piss off a stranger here on ICM like I usually do, but EB had absolutely no experience actually _growing_ NL. He was fortunate enough to participate in the Mr. Nice forum in 2009-2010 when Nevil was active there, glommed on to him, put his lips all over Nevil's ani sphincter, every chance he could, and saved notes from those discussions.

That's the _only_ reason he could puke back "knowledge" of NL. I can't find a single reference of him actually _growing_ it, let alone cultivating, or God forbid, _developing_ it.

The person on that forum who you would want to communicate with about NL, since Nevil is dead, would be JeSSe. And he's no longer an Admin or participant there and afaik, is MIA.

He actually grew NL, unlike Elmer.

I hate that so many of the threads at Mr. Nice were shit-canned but I'm glad I'm a packrat and saved them. I've got some ond Usenet friends who are absolute masters at discovering shit that's been deleted in web based fora, so I'm gonna turn 'em loose and see what they can find that I haven't been able to.

I've been doing a deeper dive into the Mr. Nice archives concerning Nevil, that's not concentrated on NL and have found additional info about NL in other threads. In addition, NLSG reappeared there several years ago after my initial dive down the NL rabbit hole, so there's an additional couple of useful quotes in those threads as well.

I'll be adding quotes to this thread in the future.

 

[CharlesU Farley]

This post is going to concentrate on NLSG and I'll let the statements stand on their own. I did bold/italicize some parts, to draw your attention to the absurdity of anyone selling specific _numbers_ of Northern Lights. Most certainly #5, and since someone brought up that asshat from Authentic???? Genetics, I'm going to add #1 in there as well. "Murphy Stevens" Purest Indica? My ass!! I can post pictures of my reverse engineered NL that look more like #1 than the shit he's got on his website.

I digress.

And I'm getting angry, so let's let the participants who actually did the _work_ speak through their words, and then you'll understand why I _know_ the Northern Lights numbers are bullshit.

In addition, anybody who uses Steve Murphy's name just the pimp/whore seeds, to make money, has absolutely no _honor_ or integrity whatsoever. Steve Murphy's life was totally and completely fucked by Operation Green Merchant and he has not been on the scene since that time.

Yet this asshat has no problems using his name for marketing a fictitious product.

So......

These are NLSGs _exact_ words from the Mr Nice forum, cut and pasted, with emphasis added by me, to make a point. This being the most important one:

"Aloha & memories of what happened 35 + years ago can be a bit hazy..."

That should tell you all NL numbers are utter and complete bullshit, sold For Boomers, By Boomers, For Money.

These are result of my most recent dive down the rabbit hole, there may be a duplicate or two from my original post. I haven't got time to read through it, yet again, and my memory sucks these days, just like it does for every old fuck over 65.

In 2013, from NLSG in the Mr Nice Forum:

Aloha MarijuanaPiranha, I have been retired in Hawaii and turned things over to a younger generation years ago. I think anyone looking for the original NL genetics that went to Nevil should see what Shantibaba or Ben Dronkers have listed from their seed & strains collections

Seeds of ten strains were sent to Nevil at the Seed Bank and the famous NL# 5 was a strain that came from Seattle and is a cross of an Indica from Afghanistan and a short season Sativa that came from Hawaii bred by Herbie who worked at a well known grow shop in Seattle.

The base plants for the entire Seattle Northern Lights strains 1 to 10 was a batch of seed sent from Afghanistan that ended up in Herbie's employers hands who just happened to be an old friend from High School so I was able to get four seeds. Then I started doing seed crops of the pure Indica and crossing it with other strains from Nepal, Mexico, and Columbia. Nevil when we sent pictures of 24" long buds of NL #5 grown indoors was very impressed with our work


In 2014, from NLSG in the Mr Nice forum:

"Northern lights # 1 was Nevils Afghani crossed with the Seattle Afghan strain form Steve Murphy. The higher the number meant more sativa in the 11 packets of seed I mailed to Nevil. I sent seed to Ben and Kees at Sensi too for giving me the nutrient formula for Grodan and Seattle water"

"Aloha, With the pure strain wide leaved short Afghan strains in Seattle pure strain seed started showing up in the mid 1970s the same time we were working out the details for HID lighting indoors. Nevil had the one he collected and the NL 1 & 2 from Seattle. Ask Nevil I have no clue what he did and it is real hard to speculate after all these years."

"Aloha, The 11 packets of seed Nevil received were graded the #1 ,2, 3, were 100% indica, #5 the clone I traded Herbie Nelson for was 50% Afghani & 50% Hawaiian sativa. The others #6-#11 were crosses with Columbian, Thai, and Mexican Sativas. Nevil then sold out to Ben, became partners with Arjan, and then hooked up with the Mr. Nice Crew."

From 2021

NL came from Seattle grown primarily indoors under lights in the 1970 and 1980s. We had access to several short wide leaf Indica strains that came from friends in Seattle, Oregon and California. Where in Afghanistan they came from I do not know

Aloha & NL # 1 was not sent to The Netherlands we sent #2 through #12. #2 as the short wide leaf strain and as the numbers increased taller plants with more narrow leaves and a longer time to harvest. At that time tierpenes were not in play it was the skunk smell and how to not get arrested when growing it in an attic or a basement.

" Aloha & memories of what happened 35 + years ago can be a bit hazy when one is stoned.. Thank you for contributing to the conversation. Don was one person on a team that was intact before he came along. We showed him how to grow and set him up with seed and cuttings."



"NL #1 and #2 were in the bag before we got the Mazar from Nevil. #1 was Murphy's x Murphys and Don's #2 I think was Murphy's crossed with either hash plant or what he called his stinky Affie. Don I think got some seeds from John at Steubers and his Native American brothers. The seed I sent to Todd and Matt was an old find I did not know existed until last year it was an old stash the family uncovered. All it had was #5 on the seed pack. My usual was if it was a cross was #5 x whatever on the seed pack"


" We were using several Indica stains pre Nevil . Murphys, hybrids of #5 and #1 and Don's Affie strain. They all tended to reek like skunk."

This is a question by the nym " nightmare."

" Also is the make up of nl#1 just mr Murphy's afghan ? Thanks for the reply by the way."

"Things were different during the illegal times. Our lawyers told us to keep no records or photographs as it was evidence the police did use against us. We had several people we worked with owners and employees the local grow shops Indian Don , Biker Clubs, Jay and Harlyne Jackson did good work with Indica strains they later brought to Amsterdam after having legal problems in California"

Okay, that's it from NLSG.

Next up is going to be Nevil, and I feel like I'm going to be stepping through a fucking _field_ of landmines. Y'all must understand from 1994 through 2001, I was exceedingly plugged in on exactly what was going on in the world of cannabis development. From the Patriot Act of 2001 until 2012, I _never_ visited a single cannabis forum or any cannabis site whatsoever.

For the last 10-12 years, through the use of forums, the archive.org's Wayback Machine, and some really heavy, bit twisting propeller heads I know from Usenet that can find missing info on the Internet better than anybody, I found a treasure trove of what people actually _wrote_ about what they _did_.

I'll take that over rumors, innuendos, "what Neville told me" , "what NLSG told you", what " Shantibaba said about Neville", etc. and most assuredly, what _anybody_ posts in this thread now.

Fuck a lot of Elmer Budd. I hope he shows up here and we'll take it to DM, IM, PM whatever the fuck y'all call it and I'll point out exactly why he is totally and completely full of shit.

So I am completely and totally aware of all the backstabbing, rumors, lies, innuendos, outright/complete bullshit of all of the major participants who form the _foundation_ of cannabis development have /did say about what they did, when they did it, why they did it, etc.

Guess what?

I don't give a shit about any of it. When you're involved in illegal activities that can result in _decades_ of jail time or being murdered, and you're _dealing_ with murderers, smugglers, thieves, and other ne're do wells, there's not anybody other than God Almighty him/herself that will be able to tell the actual _truth_ of what went on back in the day.

I care about what they did, why they did it, and how they did it. And since most of them are dead, too old to remember, or have an axe to grind or something to sell, I just go by instinct and what I fucking know because of what they _wrote_.

And I don't give absolutely one fuck about who's in this forum is on one side or the other, who did what, who said what, blah blah blah blah blah blah. I just know that in going through all the info that I've collected so far, I would absolutely love to get in an online discussion with Nevil now.

Read this to understand why and he'll be the subject of my next post:

"Are you paying attention? With polyhybrid matings, it all boils down to the individual. Siblings are not uniform. You see this in the range of types expressed in the females. The males will have a similar range of genotypes. Despite being of mixed blood, individuals still tend to breed true to their own type.

"People are polyhybrids. It is quite common for children to look like both parents. Now and again you meet couple who are both singularly unattractive. They produce a ghastly looking baby and ask you, what do you think? I usually say, "It never ceases to amaze me how children capture the essence of both parents in a perfect blend. Nature is like that."

With direct, blunt humor like that(you all should realize my online communicative style by now) I would have _loved_ to go at it with him.

Tom Hill, I'm jealous!

I'd start with his 24/0 lighting regimen versus my 16/8 regimen.

 

[RoyalFlush]

This post is going to concentrate on NLSG and I'll let the statements stand on their own. I did bold/italicize some parts, to draw your attention to the absurdity of anyone selling specific _numbers_ of Northern Lights. Most certainly #5, and since someone brought up that asshat from Authentic???? Genetics, I'm going to add #1 in there as well. Purest Indica my ass!! I can post pictures of my reverse engineered NL that look more like #1 than the shit he's got on his website.

I digress.

And I'm getting angry, so let's let the participants who actually did the _work_ speak through their words, and then you'll understand why I know the Northern Lights numbers are bullshit.

In addition, anybody who uses Steve Murphy's name just the pimp/whore seeds, just to make money, has absolutely no _honor_ or integrity whatsoever. Steve Murphy's life was totally and completely fucked by Operation Green Merchant and he has not been on the scene since that time.

Yet this asshat has no problems using his name for marketing a fictitious product.

So......

These are NLSGs _exact_ words from the Mr Nice forum, cut and pasted, with emphasis added by me, to make a point. This being the most important one:

"Aloha & memories of what happened 35 + years ago can be a bit hazy..."


In 2013, from NLSG in the Mr Nice Forum:

Aloha MarijuanaPiranha, I have been retired in Hawaii and turned things over to a younger generation years ago. I think anyone looking for the original NL genetics that went to Nevil should see what Shantibaba or Ben Dronkers have listed from their seed & strains collections

Seeds of ten strains were sent to Nevil at the Seed Bank and the famous NL# 5 was a strain that came from Seattle and is a cross of an Indica from Afghanistan and a short season Sativa that came from Hawaii bred by Herbie who worked at a well known grow shop in Seattle.

The base plants for the entire Seattle Northern Lights strains 1 to 10 was a batch of seed sent from Afghanistan that ended up in Herbie's employers hands who just happened to be an old friend from High School so I was able to get four seeds. Then I started doing seed crops of the pure Indica and crossing it with other strains from Nepal, Mexico, and Columbia. Nevil when we sent pictures of 24" long buds of NL #5 grown indoors was very impressed with our work


In 2014, from NLSG in the Mr Nice forum:

"Northern lights # 1 was Nevils Afghani crossed with the Seattle Afghan strain form Steve Murphy. The higher the number meant more sativa in the 11 packets of seed I mailed to Nevil. I sent seed to Ben and Kees at Sensi too for giving me the nutrient formula for Grodan and Seattle water"

From 2021

NL came from Seattle grown primarily indoors under lights in the 1970 and 1980s. We had access to several short wide leaf Indica strains that came from friends in Seattle, Oregon and California. Where in Afghanistan they came from I do not know

Aloha & NL # 1 was not sent to The Netherlands we sent #2 through #12. #2 as the short wide leaf strain and as the numbers increased taller plants with more narrow leaves and a longer time to harvest. At that time tierpenes were not in play it was the skunk smell and how to not get arrested when growing it in an attic or a basement.

" Aloha & memories of what happened 35 + years ago can be a bit hazy when one is stoned.. Thank you for contributing to the conversation. Don was one person on a team that was intact before he came along. We showed him how to grow and set him up with seed and cuttings."



"NL #1 and #2 were in the bag before we got the Mazar from Nevil. #1 was Murphy's x Murphys and Don's #2 I think was Murphy's crossed with either hash plant or what he called his stinky Affie. Don I think got some seeds from John at Steubers and his Native American brothers. The seed I sent to Todd and Matt was an old find I did not know existed until last year it was an old stash the family uncovered. All it had was #5 on the seed pack. My usual was if it was a cross was #5 x whatever on the seed pack"


" We were using several Indica stains pre Nevil . Murphys, hybrids of #5 and #1 and Don's Affie strain. They all tended to reek like skunk."

This is a question by the nym " nightmare."

" Also is the make up of nl#1 just mr Murphy's afghan ? Thanks for the reply by the way."

"Things were different during the illegal times. Our lawyers told us to keep no records or photographs as it was evidence the police did use against us. We had several people we worked with owners and employees the local grow shops Indian Don , Biker Clubs, Jay and Harlyne Jackson did good work with Indica strains they later brought to Amsterdam after having legal problems in California"

You do realize those "NL" seeds AGturdseeds sells came directly from NLSG?

The whole Purest Indica, Neutron lites (supposed "NL2"), and "NL5" all came from NLSG.

Purest Indica is what NLSG claims is Steve Murphy's Afghan.

 

[Mr. J]

Haha.

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

That should tell you all NL numbers are utter and complete bullshit, sold For Boomers, By Boomers, For Money.

Same with Haze. That legend is all marketing bullshit. You'd be better off growing something you can probably rely on as a GOOD sativa that has been worked like Ace Golden Tiger X Panama.

We smoked some old Cannacopia Lapis Mtn. indica over the weekend, again, and my girlfriend about flipped after taking one short and then one long hit on a small bong. I did 3 good hits and.....

Kwik Seeds is the place to go for some good ol Thai (stick) or indica IMO.

UB