The quest for indoor growing

[Koondense]

In a month time I'll probably start my first indoor grow.
Not a new grower in general, I have 4years of outdoor guerrilla experience and I'm a fan of organic growing, also doing some hobby gardening every year.


The quest for indoor growing knowledge starts here and now, with some basic expectations and goals to set a platform for further questions.


It's a basic idea to get me a tent of around 1m^2 area, 400W mh in veg, 400W hps in flower, probably 9 plant SOG(in 9-12l pots) with some minor training, maybe adding a plant or two in smaller pots.

Planned setup so far(will probably change):

-digital ballast 600W, dimmable to 400, 250
-400W MH for veg(first week dimmed to 250) and 1st week after flip, 400W HPS for flowering
-probably air cooled, small reflector
-9-12l pots(are air pots really any better?) SOG setup
-250-400m^3/h extraction fan and filter, low revs for low noise?
-3-4 weeks veg, 8weeks flo or 2wks veg and 10-11wks flo cycle
-thinking of Female Seeds C99 or Sex Bud, other option is Ace Seeds Malawi x PCK
-organic soil mix, organic feeding in flo


Main point is having a 100% organic crop with expected yield of around 0,75g/W at least.


Now the questions:

Is 0,75g/W a realistic yield for an indoor newb? What should one do to achieve this bar?

Are 400W mh/hps enough for tents like SecretJardin DR90 or Vintage100?
-Got different advice on it, some say this and some that, never know who's got it right. Air cooled or not?

What kind of ventilation is best considering an apartment grow?
-I need a very quiet extraction system with passive in, thinking of 250-400M^3/h. Is there a better way? How to find the best extraction setup?

Do I necessarily need a big bud kind of strain for a good yield?
-I'm a fan of so called narrow leafed sativa plants. Thinking of C99 or some similar strain for a start, with relatively low smell during flowering(very important!) and a good/very good yield.


Feeling weird for asking such questions, like a total noob, which I am in this case. It's better to ask for advice than to learn from mistakes, can't afford mistakes.

Any feedback is welcome of course

Best Vibes

 

[snuggles]

Is 0,75g/W a realistic yield for an indoor newb? What should one do to achieve this bar?

Yes with proper care and the experience you claim you have this is achievable.



Are 400W mh/hps enough for tents like SecretJardin DR90 or Vintage100?

Yes 400W are plenty for the DR90, more might even generate heat issues.



What kind of ventilation is best considering an apartment grow?

S&P TD Silent (available in different versions) is great, silent and powerful.



Do I necessarily need a big bud kind of strain for a good yield?

Sativa in the DR90 is doable but you have limited height so it's a challenge. Since this is your first indoor grow i would stick to indica hybrids for starters. After you know your tent and the climate in it, and you've dialed it in correctly, then you can start thinking about a sativa strain




good vibes

 

[Koondense]

Thanks for jumping in snuggles.

The fan you mention is damn expensive but looks top class. Idk, maybe for another grow, trying to spend as less as possible for the first time so this won't do.

I forgot to say, I'm in EU and have most basic stuff available in local grow shops, was considering buying online but I can find cheaper deals in shops and avoid shipping costs.
There are some hps bulbs on offer which I didn't see tested for performance, so I'll make a list another time if anyone can suggest the best.

So the 400W can be too hot for DR90, I assume an air cooled reflector would be a must in this case?
The ventilation setup is another chapter I'd like to have some kind of debate about, in the future perhaps. I'm thinking which is the best(less noisy - most efficient) way to set up a filter, fan and a cooled reflector..

About the strain, I know there's stretching with most sativas so I think you're right to say a hybrid should be more managable. So far sex bud sounds best to me

Cheers

 

[snuggles]

for a room of that size 90x90x180cm 2-3 clip fans are more than enough for air circulation.
if you want to use a cooltube, then get a big enough filter and ventilator and hook it up to the tube. filter-ventilator-cooltube-exhaust -> so you can run the tube without additional ventilators.
now to the price thing. i go buy the rule: whoever buys cheap buys expensive. i prefer to spend more initially and get good gear, to buying cheaper stuff that breaks in a short period of time and needs replacing.
but if you're on a budget: you could buy a cheaper unit, oversize it in m3 for the room and dimm it down with a panel. that way it's silent and cheap.
it all depends on personal preference and budget.

good vibes

 

[hush]

Is 0,75g/W a realistic yield for an indoor newb?

I think you would be better off expecting around 0.5 grams per watt. Yes, it is very possible to get upwards of .75 gpw but if you are new to indoor growing, there will be a learning curve, so be more conservative in your estimates. Your gardening experience in general will definitely give you an advantage over a complete noob, for sure, but don't kid yourself, indoor growing is quite different from outdoors.

Are 400W mh/hps enough for tents like SecretJardin DR90 or Vintage100?
-Got different advice on it, some say this and some that, never know who's got it right. Air cooled or not?

It's all about environment control. If you have a relatively cool space, and/or you are providing air conditioning, then a sealed-in air-cooled hood is unnecessary. But if you are going to be fighting heat, then do yourself a favor and go with air-cooled. But yes, 400w is ideal for the DR90.

What kind of ventilation is best considering an apartment grow?
-I need a very quiet extraction system with passive in, thinking of 250-400M^3/h. Is there a better way? How to find the best extraction setup?

Go with a ~400 cfm centrifugal fan, and connect it to a variable speed controller. You can keep it dialed about halfway down and that will be fairly quiet, while still providing you with all the extraction you need. Also, make sure you attach a carbon filter for odor control. And yes, passive intake for the tent is what you want.

Do I necessarily need a big bud kind of strain for a good yield?
-I'm a fan of so called narrow leafed sativa plants. Thinking of C99 or some similar strain for a start, with relatively low smell during flowering(very important!) and a good/very good yield.

No, you do not necessarily need a heavy yielding plant to get a good yield. You just need to make sure you fill the space inside the tent completely. For sativas, you probably want to do a bunch of training, like LST or scrog, but you can do a SOG and lollypop the plants, keep them close together, and still fill the space.

One of the tents I grow in is a DR90, with a 400w MH/HPS, and I regularly get close to a gram per watt in there, but I'm a seasoned indoor grower, and it took time to get there, even though I was a seasoned outdoor grower before that. Here's an example of what can be done in this tent... This ended up giving me around 12 ounces, and I didn't even fill up the entire screen:

Hope that helps and gives you encouragement.

 

[Koondense]

@snuggles
The oversized fan for lower rpms is a good idea, will probably do it.
About spending less/more, I agree but this is supposed to be for two grows during the winter, next season I'm gonna get me a cmh 315W or a good led panel probably.
I can get an adjustawing reflector but I have concerns about heat in this case.
So I think the cooltube or similar will be needed, a friend just told me his inline fan for the cooltube is totally quiet(no idea which model), so I'm thinking of two fans, the extra cost is not so big. It's also better for room temp control I think.

@hush
Great answers, thanks.
Honestly I don't like the 0,5g/W thing Not my goal, so I expect a steep curve in learning, hopefully get good experience along the grow progression. I like scientific approach to doing things, so this will be a nice process of getting greener thumbs


Still thinking about the strain, I really wouldn't like indi-dom hybrid kind of high and will probably stick with the C99 or SexBud, fruity up high supposed to be. I like to think a more sati hybrid will be more forgiving and managable with training and filling the space.
I had an idea of using the MH for 18-24 days, then lst or supercrop and start lowering light hours for next 8-10 days to reach 14/10, then flip to 12/12 and keep the MH for the first week. Then in second flo week switch to hps to avoid excessive stretch, if there will be signs of height problems. But it's just an idea as I think it's best to simulate(in a way) the outdoor light conditions and characteristics, this could be a kind of attempt of doing so.

 

[Koondense]

Just checking the SJ tent site, they have an "Advised configuration" table(pdf), for the DR90 and V100 tents the 400W seems to be ok although there are big differences in required air extraction.
Seems the rule is 2X the grow volume every minute for an open reflector and once per minute with an air cooled one.
Is there a "rule" for reflector ventilation, what volume per hour for a 400W?
I should find out by myself but it's not a good time for math now

 

[Fly by Night]

9x3=27 gallons dirt. I use less medium. 9x1 gal pots with more frequent waterings you'll bust 1.5oz per plant and a decent yild. Try a 430w son agro bulb on the hps side. Whew

 

[Koondense]

So you say 5l is enough?
I feel more roots=more yield and relatively less adding of nutes.

430W son agro, can't find one for a good price.
I'll see what's available here and post a full list of lamps for some insight, already feel the Philips Master son-t-pia 400W greenpower hps stands out of the competition.
MH will likely be a Sylvania bulb.

Another thing comes to mind..
Anyone compared the lumens(or par) from a 600W bulb driven at 400W and a regular 400W bulb at full power? It would be interesting to see the difference in intensity and spectrum.

 

[Fly by Night]

Plant them in the size of your choice homie jus lettin ya kno wat werks for me. A 400w driven full tilt is superior than an underpowered 600w in our business. Peace

 

[Koondense]

After some more thought I think there's a real possibility for me to go the "diy led" way.
Depends on money of course but in mid to long term it's the best thing to do.

Thinking of 300-400W soft driven cree cxb3590s, 6-8 cobs total, I prefer less cobs because they are not cheap, but for better efficency more is best.

Dunno, I'll report when decisions will be made.

 

[Hovz]

Is 0,75g/W a realistic yield for an indoor newb? What should one do to achieve this bar?
Probably not that hard to achieve. Either bigger plants tied down or scrogged, or a bunch of small plants sog style

Are 400W mh/hps enough for tents like SecretJardin DR90 or Vintage100?
-Got different advice on it, some say this and some that, never know who's got it right. Air cooled or not?

400w is plenty of light. I would aircool

What kind of ventilation is best considering an apartment grow?
-I need a very quiet extraction system with passive in, thinking of 250-400M^3/h. Is there a better way? How to find the best extraction setup? I would just use a small can fan on a speed controller makesure its mounted against rubber or something similar to avoid vibration.

Do I necessarily need a big bud kind of strain for a good yield?
-I'm a fan of so called narrow leafed sativa plants. Thinking of C99 or some similar strain for a start, with relatively low smell during flowering(very important!) and a good/very good yield.

I wouldn't think you would necessarily need a big bud strain to get a good yield and i would suggest against it. In my book quality over quantity every time wins. You can yield just as much with a high quality strain if you use one of the techniques above i described.

 

[Koondense]

Thanks Hovz, much appreciated.

 

[coldcanna]

As a general rule of thumb in soil the more dirt the more dope- that being said I would personally build a bed to match the footprint of the tent, or just buy the biggest smart pot that will fit in there and plant them all together. However, if your main objective is big yields and your comfortable in soil I would shoot over to the coco coir sub forum here and get yourself educated on that, coco has a similar feel to growing in dirt but will outperform it every day of the week.

As far as the lighting goes- You should really get a 1000w dimmable, you might not use its full capacity now but if your like most of us here it wont be long before that little tent op becomes a full room, leave yourself room for expansion. Skip buying the MH all together, HPS works just fine. You'll want a T5 for the youngins. Beyond that, the best advice for anyone starting out inside is to put all your energy/money into building a controlled environment- air movement, pest/disease management, proper temps and humidity are the foundation of good growing. With these aspects dialed in its almost fool proof to grow good bud, I wouldn't even be worrying about strain selection until that's done.

 

[Koondense]

Wise words, coldcanna.

I almost decided to go DIY led, if there will be enough money. It's an adaptable system and can be expanded when needed.
The base are obviously CXB3590 chips, probably 6 with a pair of dimmable MW drivers, 2*200W max. I feel this will be enough for my goals now, gotta start somewhere.

I'm a fan of big pots so probably they will be almost filling the footprint, no air-pots for the first grow maybe later.

 

[Hovz]

Wise words, coldcanna.

I almost decided to go DIY led, if there will be enough money. It's an adaptable system and can be expanded when needed.
The base are obviously CXB3590 chips, probably 6 with a pair of dimmable MW drivers, 2*200W max. I feel this will be enough for my goals now, gotta start somewhere.

I'm a fan of big pots so probably they will be almost filling the footprint, no air-pots for the first grow maybe later.

Ive seen people do well with HID's LED's and CFL's i think you can grow good bud with all of them, if youre looking to have a constant supply year round its all about going perpetual. Im thinking i want to build a bunch of small cabinets. You should lookup blinyx's 1 sq ft cab, as long as you have a constant supply of clones going in and out, you harvest much more. CFLS are low cost and they are guaranteed from home depot for 9 years. i love my aircooled HIDS myself but im gonna to try cfls also.

 

[Dion]

onstant supply of clones going in and out

 

[Koondense]

I think I'll love the home made leds

 

[Dion]

dont forget to drop by and post pics in my thread and if u have any questions just pm me there are enough youtube vids out there i can point you to the right one

BTW did you order yet?

what did you get?

 

[Koondense]

Didn't order yet, I'll get the CD bins 3500K versions of cxb3590. Total of 6 each at 49W.
Still in doubt if I should get CXB3070 instead, not much output difference at 1400mA, but high bins are hard to find.
Also thinking of a higher current driver, up to 1800-2000mA but efficency drops a bit, still much more output per cob for higher intensity and penetration.

The problem is the 3590's holders won't fit on the arctic alpine11+ vents and I'd really love to have the holders and those vents. I like the screw holes on sides, the 64+ has a nice sirface but the shape is a fail and it's hard to mount it on L-profiles.