the organic or chem/synthetic nutrients

[Guest]

i grow in sterile soil with a mix of 60% soil, 25-30%perlite/vermeculite, 8 to 10% green sand, 8 cups of dolomite lime/ wood ash, seabird and bat guanos, a 1 inch layer of gravel on the bottoms of all pots to help drainage better. i grow in 1.5 gal. pots. also in soil i put to 2 cu ft of soil mix 25 grams each pirahna and tarantula. i use iguana grow and bloom as my base in conjunctioon with pirahna, tarantula, molasses <when flowering>, ph of 5.8 to 6.2, and i use neem oil for anything pest wise. now im not hell bent on growing organic. i called and got the free big bud from a.n. and its not organic but i am interested in growing larger plants.....i have Mazar from dutch passion, atomic northern lights from dr. atomic, and chocolate chunk from th seeds. i am also doing research on two organic nutes from them also....voo doo juice and carbo load .....if these would give me yeilds as big as the big bud i wold switch to them. i think even if i do use one non organic nute ill still get an organic taste if i flush well enough? am i wrong? any input o nthis would be greatly appreciated !
peace
pout

 

[guineapig]

Here is my 2 cents:

In my experience, i have found that a medium rich in organic nutrients such as the
one described above can be more difficult to properly flush than a much lighter
medium like 70% perl/verm and 30% organic soils. With your 60% soil mixture, you
will get a denser mixture which prevents the final flushing water from cleansing all of
the roots. Don't get me wrong, you will still have awesomely healthy plants, but the
overall taste will somehow taste a bit more "earthy" and less of the secondary odors
such as berry or citrus or wintergreen will not be expressed. Also you will find the
burning qualities to be more of a chunky black ash rather than a fine crisp white ash
which burns evenly and always keeps the joint lit.

Does that make sense?

The heavier medium such as you describe tends to trap Nitrogen due to the overall
density of the medium, so even late in flowering the plant's fan leaves still may
appear very deep green. Ideally we want the plant to have used up all of the available Nitrogen in its medium by the end of the flowering cycle. It is very
difficult to flush out excess Nitrogen from a soil after you have originally added more
Nitrogen than is necessary for the life-cycle of the plant. (P and K are much more
"mobile" elements in the soil structure and tend to get flushed out much quicker than N)

With a lighter medium (such as a pro-mix based medium or the Botanicare Ready-Gro
Medium), you you can add organic nutrients such as guano teas or Iguana Juice or
whatever else according to the demands of the plant. Different strains of Cannabis
require slightly different nutrient profiles and "on demand" delivery of nutrients is the
ideal situation (imho)......

Now, even if you use one organic nutrient, i don't think that will affect the overall
taste. Just remember to go easy on those products like big bud because an overdose
of Phosphorous and Potassium (P and K) definately will affect the final taste, as well
as damage plant health due to lockout of secondary nutrients and increased soil
toxicity......

If you want to find out how to "grow trees," there are a few "tree growers" around
here who use the DWC and Bio-Bucket methods to produce very large plants!!! Not
sure if you want to try this method, but there are lots of threads herein just use the
Search Engine and you should find them.....

Hope this helps rather than confuses.........

kind regards from guineapig

Oh, and i think 8 cups of lime/wood ash is too excessive imho. You probably
only need 1 or 2 of each, but this is just my personal preference....

gp edit

 

[Guest]

the only thing I would add is to say: You can find cheaper alternatives to the VooDoo Juice, Pirahna, Tarantula. I'm sure they are good products(never used them) but there are cheaper suppliers of those colonies.

J.

 

[Guest]

Hydroponic culture incorporates a controlled, ecologically sound environment. Soluble nutrient formulas are re-circulated, and used by plant's roots eliminating environmental waste. Plants tend to be healthier in a hydroponic system than those grown in soil making them more pest resistant. Biological control agents, such as the introduction of predator insects prior to any infestation of destructive bugs, are used as preventative measures. Harmful herbicides are simply not required as there are no weeds in a hydroponic garden!

Plants use inorganic minerals for nutrition, whether grown in the field or in a container. Complex interactions involving weathering of rock minerals, decaying organic matter, bacterial decay of animals, and microbes take place to form inorganic minerals in soil. Roots absorb mineral nutrients as ions in soil water.

The minerals that a plant requires for growth are absorbed by the plant's root system after they have been broken down into their basic elements and dissolved by water. By the time the plant ingests these mineral elements, they are no different from prepared nutrients. For example, nitrogen, an essential mineral element, whether derived from organic or inorganic matter, has the exact same molecular structure and appearance when observed under a microscope. Simply stated, nature's elements cannot be changed regardless of how they are obtained or processed.Plant nutrition is a term that takes into account the interrelationships of mineral elements in the soil or soilless solution as well as their role in plant growth. The interrelationship involves a complex balance of mineral elements essential and beneficial for optimum plant growth. In prepared hydroponic nutrients minerals are designated inorganic, however they are natural.

Webster's dictionary definition of natural; as provided by nature.

Through extensive research, scientists have been able to determine a plant's exact nutrient requirement at both the vegetative and flowering stages. Researchers isolated the ideal parts per million (ppm) of each individual trace element required. In hydroponics, optimum growth is achieved through natural mineral supplements. Plants are fed exactly what they require, thus eliminating waste. Should a problem occur in a hydroponic garden mineral imbalances are easily identified and adjusted if necessary.

There is certainly a need for concern over the cultivation techniques of soil grown crops. The safety of genetically altered foods and the use of hormones and antibiotics must be further investigated. In hydroponic culture these are not an issue. As consumers become educated about the benefits of hydroponically produced food, demand will increase making it more available. Consumers should look for hydroponics when buying produce! It's a healthy choice that does not harm the environment.

There are many prepared organic hydroponic nutrients and a wealth of recipes for homemade mixtures on the market today. These have been made available because of a huge consumer demand. However, it has yet to be determined if there is any real benefit to incorporating organics with hydroponics.

 

[Guest]

im not looking to grow huge trees, probably want to grow my choc. chunk to 20 to 24 inches b4 budding and my n.l. to 12 inches and the mazar to 16 inches....the mazar will need some minor "lollipopping" for even canopy. but i plan to grow a perpetual harvest in a 5 x 6 area lit by 1400 total watts totaling 46.6666667 watts per sq. ft.
i plan on getting a light mover in the future, but right now money is an issue so that cant be done. i understand what your saying in the density of my soil, and flushing was pretty ytough last time around - the plants are very healthy like you said. however the harshness of the final product was more drastic than that of my outside grows which are always phenominal.
indoors however is another story. i have it down im just trying to fine tune my skills. as far as other nutrient companies go i like advanced nutrients because they offer a money back guarantee which to me says alot.
ive always had excellent results with them. i am not saying i would not try other products i just have a tendency to stick with what i know to be certain and build from there.
i appreciate your advice and will heed to it . i am in clone stage right now, and am going to get the soil today i will loosen it up and cut back on the additives.
peace
pout

 

[Americangrower]

I would use organic nutes I have had great success with.

BioBizz Grow/Bloom/TopMax/Root juice
Sweet
Liquid karma
Hygrozyme
pk 13/14
kelp & fish juice (any co)

Trust me you will notice the taste...I used Bigbud and it leaves a hay taste even after flush..be safe

 

[Guest]

trust me thats just your opinion..

I would use organic nutes I have had great success with.

BioBizz Grow/Bloom/TopMax/Root juice
Sweet
Liquid karma
Hygrozyme
pk 13/14
kelp & fish juice (any co)

Trust me you will notice the taste...I used Bigbud and it leaves a hay taste even after flush..be safe

 

[Guest]

brainthor- thank you for making a couple things clear, i will also be using this info on my upcoming grow i will keep pics posted as best i can. i gonna lighten the soil - thanks guinea- and im gonna drop the guanos, add big bug with my other feeding regimine, probably just go with ph up and down

 

[Guest]

about sterile soil

about sterile soil

also the sterile soil i know is really not needed i just like to know that what is there is good and i figure i would have less chance with disease and pests

 

[Guest]

please dont get me started...what a plant needs it takes that is all 16 elements..really simple..i dont sale i grow for my head..many strains and many years my friend..dont knock something because you dont know how to properly use it...peace

 

[rule35sub1]

Collosal Bud Blast from AN can be used instead of Big Bud.

 

[Skunkface]

please dont get me started...what a plant needs it takes that is all 16 elements..really simple..

Brainthor.. remember there are other benefits you can obtain other than just the pure elements.

Alfalfa and kelp both have growth regulating hormones.

There are also bacteria and fungi that can help roots uptake minerals.

Another thing is vitamins. B vitamins do a good job speeding up metabolizm.

You can also get stimulants that trigger the plants immune system (and resin production) (scorpion juice from advanced nutes)

yur doin great with just the elements, imagine how you'll do with a couple more additives from the organics isle.

 

[Guest]

Answer
Plants do not need vitamins, like people, but a different sets of nutrients.

Plants actually manufacturer their own food from carbon dioxide, oxygen, and water plus a number of nutrients they extract from the soil.

The nutrients they extract from the soil are:

Macro Nutrients:
Nitrogen, Phosphorus, Potassium, Sulphor, Magnesium, and Calcium

Micro Nutrients:
Chlorine, Iron, Manganese, Zinc, Copper, Boron, and Molybdenum.

Plants need all nutrients to grow, no one being more or less important. However, the plants consume larger quantaties of the macro nutrients compared to the micro nutrients.

Boron for example is only needed in 1/1000 of a gram whereas several ounces of nitrogen may be consumed by a large tree, for example. Plants need all 13 nutrients from the soil, but some are required in larger quantaties than others.

Outdoors, in soil, the micro nutrients are usually available in soil, e.g. do not need to be supplied by the farmer or gardener, although in some cases individual nutrients such as iron or boron may be lacking. The average home gardener seldom have to worry about these but professional nursery growers and farmers do add these based on a soil test (an analysis of what the soil already contains).

The 3 larger nutrients: N-P-K: Nitrogen, Phosphorus, and Potassium are commonly supplied through the use of FERTILIZERS.

A fertilizer is simply a SALT (e.g. like table salt you use for preparring foods), but instead of being sodium chloride (NaCI) it may be other types of salts such as potassium nitrate, ammonium nitrate, etc.

These fertilizer salts are so-called IONIC compounds, e.g. they consist of two or more molecules which has a negative or positive charge. Think of it as two magnets holding together (the positive end of one magnet attract the negative end of the other magnet).

When placed in water, these molecules are pulled apart by the water molecules, and each molecule are now "floating" in water seperately.

Example: Table salt for example. Sodium Chloride consist of a large positive charged Sodium molecules which bonds strongly with a negatively charged Chloride molecule. When placed in water the water molecules will literally pull these two atoms apart. E.g. they are no longer bound strongly together.
Think of it, as if the Sodium molecules now floated around in water seperate from the Chloride molecules.

Plants have small fine hairs at the end of their roots which are very efficient at extracting water and other small molecules. These molecules enter a fine membrane, e.g. like a screen, and can pass through to the roots. The large, combined, table salt molecule (sodium choloride, NaCI) would be too large to pass this screen, but individually, as a sodium and chloride molecules these nutrients can enter then plants.

As you may understand, the fertilizer nutrients are therefore made available to the plants by being dissolved in water first. This is actually one of the reasons why plants need water. Without water, the fertilizer nutrients would be too big to pass into the roots.

In nature, plants find these fertilizer nutrients as part of the soil and are made available to the plants when the soil is wet. Othertimes, gardeners may supply these nutrients by applying fertilizer, either as inorganic factory produced material, or as natural organic fertilizer (such as cow manure, bone meal, dried blood, compost, etc).

If applied as organic material (such as compost), the fertilizer nutrients are usually not available in a form which the plants can utilize. The nutrients are usually locked in larger complex molecules. However, the constant activity by microbes in the soil help to break apart these larger molecules into inorganic compounds (such as nitrates for example) which can then be dissolved in water and taken up through the plants.

So, to answer your question ...

plants do not absorb vitamins as such and do not need the same vitamin a,c,d,e etc as we do. Some nutrients, sodium, potassium, etc we have in common.

In order for plants to absorb these nutrients, microbes in the soil must first convert these nutrients into inorganic ionic compounds which can be dissolved in water. At this time, they enter the plant through fine hairs on the roots.

Inside the plants, these nutrients are combined with water and carbon dioxide to form sugars (sucrose) which the plant uses to manufacture stem, leaves, fruits, and flowers. E.g. the plants actually make their own food from individual molecules.

The largest nutrients sources (hydrogen, carbon, oxygen) the plants derrive directly from the carbon dioxide and water.

Of the nutrients which the plants take up through the soil, the larger ones (macro nutrients) are responsible for following key functions:

Nitrogen (N) is responsible for building DNA and proteins. It is a key building block for the green material.

Phosphorus (P) is essential for photosynthesis in plants (e.g. the plants ability to be able to convert the sun's energy into energy).

Potassium (K) regulates how water is taken up in cells, e.g. the ability of plants to stay upright for example.

Sulphor (S) is responsible for good growth and seed production.

Calcium (Ca) plays a role in cell elongation and cell structure.

Magnesium (Mg) help manufacture enzymes and also plant chlorophyll which is what you see as 'green' on a plant.

As mentioned, all the nutrients (macro as well as micro) are needed, they are just needed in different quantities.

 

[Guest]

Whereas vitamins are organic substances (made by plants or animals), minerals are inorganic elements that come from the soil and water and are absorbed by plants or eaten by animals.

 

[Guest]

thanks for all the answers...

thanks for all the answers...

so basically ive come to this conclusion.....the nutrients i use are just a matter of prefference.....now im just trying to figure out this......if i run an semi-organic crop and flush well i can still get a good taste? someone wrote big bud will make my weed taste like hay. even if flushed well? the only reason i ask is that im new to indoor growing (well i have done it from bagseed for the last 3 years but only under a 400 watt mh this was just to get my basics down.
now i know the basics and am on my 3rd crop, i grow indoors for personal meds....... now 95 percent of what i grow i use, the other 5 percent is sold cheaply to rebuy supplies. ie....light bulbs soil nutes etc etc.....i am not trying to get rich. i just want to grow high yeilding yet still tastefull weed without having to make oft shady deals or dealing w/ the bullshit pinched sacks, outrageous prices for garbage etc etc. you guys are really helpin me along. i mixed my soil at the exzact opposite 50% perlite, 10% green sand,10% peat moss, 30% sterile soil. i didnt add the guanos i figure if i need em ill add em as tea later in the grow. plus i didnt put the lime and wood ash in either.thanks for all the advice i will post pics a bit later if i can get it together. my camera is a piece o junk but its what i have right now so it'll have to do for now. you guys have been too cool, im sure i will need more advice.

is there a general consensis to if organics or chem nutrients are better im just looking for alot of opinions.

 

[Guest]

you will get a excellent taste ask any body who knows what the hell they are talking about...obviously not the vitamin guy

 

[Skunkface]

ur denying the existance of growth regulators... ask anyone in the agricultural business about growth regulators (hormones) n they'll tell ya its not just another element. It's a compound.. and so are vitamins.. that plants and beneficial fungi use to increase metabolizm etc.

and yes, the mycoherd just break up larger molecules into ions available to plants.. but some will store nutrients, and help keep PH stable, aswell as act as a nutrient buffer incase the res nutes start to run low or spike

 

[mtnjohn]

you can grow totally with chem nutes and if you do it right...you will get a nice product that tastes good , burns clean and gets you just as high as any

the thing with chem nutes is that you cant overdo it ..or it will have a chemmy taste

the guy that said big bud leaves a "hay " taste...dosent know how to grow obviously
i use big bud every time ...never has my weed had a hay taste
what a crock

mj

 

[NuggyBuds]

The benefit of organics are Ectomycorrhizal Fungi, or just Mycorrhizal Fungi

Which assist the plant in the uptake of nutrients through a symbiotic relationship in which the fungi gain fixed carbon sugars from the plant photosynthate, and in return the plant gains a greater surface area in which to absorb mineral nutrients. The fungi also will enable the plant to absorb some minerals that the plant is unable to naturally access. Phosphorus for example is sometime bound with other elements and cannot be absorbed by the plant alone, the fungi make this available to the plant.

 

[Skunkface]

Heres a good link on hormones.
Plant Growth Regulators

Cant do stuff like that with just elements..

And thanks nuggy for the support... I was hoping someone would come and back up my statement.