What is Spurr's formula?
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What is Spurr's formula?
oneshot
Active member
Details on this new formula?
100% Dundee
Member
Not exactly a new formula, he mentioned it/formulated it one of his threads quite a while ago. It was pretty much his "replacement" for Lucas formula so I gave it a whirl and I got much better results using it.
Sorry the photo is so small, if you click it should get bigger. That is the formula/chart he posted about it comparing it to Lucas formula on the far right Green column. The amounts of nutrients he recommended and I use are the ones listed in the Blue colored columns. I run everything except the Epsom salt/Boric acid/Fulvic acid. I also replace the Pro-Tekt with Silica Blast since I can't find pro-tekt locally and Silica Blast is cheaper. As I mentioned I also run a few other additives(Hygrozyme and Sweet Raw) with it to help even further.
My actual nutrient mix looks like this incase the chart is hard to read:
Veg: Per gallon
5ml GH FloraGrow
5ml GH FloraMicro
7ml GH FloraBloom
5ml Botanicare Silica Blast
5ml Botanicare CalMag
5ml Hygrozyme
Flower: Everything mentioned above as well as one more additive
10ml Botanicare Sweet Raw
I run this exactly like Lucas formula, full strength every feeding. He suggested giving a fresh water feeding every other or every third watering but since I was using it as a "replacement" to Lucas I figured I would do the same exact thing that I do with Lucas which is to feed full strength every time. So far, 3 grows, it has worked like a charm. Only this last grow did I start using the Sweet Raw so I do not have a lot of results on using that product in this mix just yet. So far the plants seem to love it, but I will have to wait till I harvest and smoke to get a real conclusion. Oh and also, I give a ~10 day flush at the end, fresh water the whole time no nutrients or clearex or anything. He didn't mention anything about flushing when he posted it if I recall correctly so I just used the same methods/same amount of flush time I was using with my Lucas formula plants.
This was, obviously, formulated based on the liquid GH Flora series nutrients based version of Lucas formula. I do not know how you could replicate it with the dry version(Maxibloom) unfortunately.
Sorry the photo is so small, if you click it should get bigger. That is the formula/chart he posted about it comparing it to Lucas formula on the far right Green column. The amounts of nutrients he recommended and I use are the ones listed in the Blue colored columns. I run everything except the Epsom salt/Boric acid/Fulvic acid. I also replace the Pro-Tekt with Silica Blast since I can't find pro-tekt locally and Silica Blast is cheaper. As I mentioned I also run a few other additives(Hygrozyme and Sweet Raw) with it to help even further.
My actual nutrient mix looks like this incase the chart is hard to read:
Veg: Per gallon
5ml GH FloraGrow
5ml GH FloraMicro
7ml GH FloraBloom
5ml Botanicare Silica Blast
5ml Botanicare CalMag
5ml Hygrozyme
Flower: Everything mentioned above as well as one more additive
10ml Botanicare Sweet Raw
I run this exactly like Lucas formula, full strength every feeding. He suggested giving a fresh water feeding every other or every third watering but since I was using it as a "replacement" to Lucas I figured I would do the same exact thing that I do with Lucas which is to feed full strength every time. So far, 3 grows, it has worked like a charm. Only this last grow did I start using the Sweet Raw so I do not have a lot of results on using that product in this mix just yet. So far the plants seem to love it, but I will have to wait till I harvest and smoke to get a real conclusion. Oh and also, I give a ~10 day flush at the end, fresh water the whole time no nutrients or clearex or anything. He didn't mention anything about flushing when he posted it if I recall correctly so I just used the same methods/same amount of flush time I was using with my Lucas formula plants.
This was, obviously, formulated based on the liquid GH Flora series nutrients based version of Lucas formula. I do not know how you could replicate it with the dry version(Maxibloom) unfortunately.
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100% Dundee
Member
Yeah, thats the thread. Thanks for the link! It's pretty long and theres a ton of information in there, good read for anyone interested in his methods/ideology.
I just tried to condense it down to what I actually use/do to answer the few questions by people that had no idea what I was talking about.
I just tried to condense it down to what I actually use/do to answer the few questions by people that had no idea what I was talking about.
i hear ya man, ...i just posted the link 'cause Spurr has a lot to offer, he knows his shit.
peace, SOG
Gotta love people going through all that effort.
There'd have to be a dramatic difference for me to consider something as involved as all that.
I have to admit that Lucas and Maxibloom have spoiled me. That and I'm still having trouble understanding why people say there's a problem with pH swing when using R/O and GH nutes? The rate of pH swing is determined by the strength of the nutrient solution.
Stay Safe!
There'd have to be a dramatic difference for me to consider something as involved as all that.
I have to admit that Lucas and Maxibloom have spoiled me. That and I'm still having trouble understanding why people say there's a problem with pH swing when using R/O and GH nutes? The rate of pH swing is determined by the strength of the nutrient solution.
Stay Safe!
Hydro-soil . Maybe you can answer a question I have. Ive noticed a very slight phosphorous deficiency in my plants and have been wondering just how fast the pH swing occurs in a Perlite/vermiculite Hempy bucket. I am also wondering if daily watering at a constant pH, such as 5.8 , negates the desired pH swing that would occur over time.
Ive been varying the pH (5.8-6.0) when feeding in an attempt to correct the deficiency with no noticeable effect. Does a light feeding solution change pH faster than a stronger solution would?
Ive been varying the pH (5.8-6.0) when feeding in an attempt to correct the deficiency with no noticeable effect. Does a light feeding solution change pH faster than a stronger solution would?
I'm of the same mind-set as hydro-soil is...why go through all that when you can get great results from something like maxibloom only or jacks only? I still run the mb only during bloom, but jacks gives no def in my application during veg...plus its cheaper. We ran the basic gh 3 part with a few additives (liquid karma & sweet) and we've run lucas and techniflora and they work, no doubt, but the 1 part mb is easier and cheaper. Just my .02
The speed of the pH swing is how long it takes it to dry out enough to require feeding again.
Daily watering? Yes. The pH swing is 24hrs at that point, so the plant has a greatly reduced time within each pH range to effectively feed. This is why I belive you would need at least 3-4 days between waterings... at peak production you would ideally be feeding every 1.5-2 days. Just my opinion though. I don't have much experience with hempy... just hydro.
In hydro my pH would generally take a week to rise, during the beginnings of flower.In my opinion.... (again, not much experience with hempy) I would say that medium and light feeding will provide approximately the same pH swing in a hempy bucket.... a heavy feed would tend to build up excess nutrients and effectively drop the pH lower than normal. I'm a big fan of not ever overfeeding.
So... I would look into making buckets with a slightly deeper res in the bottom. Again, at peak production you should still have almost 2 days between feedings. Hope that helps
Stay Safe!
OK. Thanks. I have been able to delay watering to every 1 1/2 days in attempt to get a full pH swing. Im not waiting to see any sign of wilt before watering but I think the extra 12 hours or so will make a difference. Next time around I plan on raising the location of the drain hole on the buckets to allow a longer period between feedings.
I also adhere to the "just enough but never too much" school when it comes to nutes for these plants .
I also adhere to the "just enough but never too much" school when it comes to nutes for these plants .
The speed of the pH swing is how long it takes it to dry out enough to require feeding again.
Daily watering? Yes. The pH swing is 24hrs at that point, so the plant has a greatly reduced time within each pH range to effectively feed. This is why I belive you would need at least 3-4 days between waterings... at peak production you would ideally be feeding every 1.5-2 days. Just my opinion though. I don't have much experience with hempy... just hydro.
In my opinion.... (again, not much experience with hempy) I would say that medium and light feeding will provide approximately the same pH swing in a hempy bucket.... a heavy feed would tend to build up excess nutrients and effectively drop the pH lower than normal. I'm a big fan of not ever overfeeding.
So... I would look into making buckets with a slightly deeper res in the bottom. Again, at peak production you should still have almost 2 days between feedings. Hope that helps
Stay Safe!
could you explain this in better detail for me ? i'm switching to RO cuz the PH swing with my tap is rediculous . i start at 5.7 or 5.8 & less than 12 hrs later its right back to where i started , usually at 6.8
I've been using the Heads recipe & was having problems in veg cuz it was to strong for the amount of lights i'm using (250watt MH ) i was getting single leaf & 3 blade leaves & a dark green color ,almost like a reveg situation . i cut the feeds back to 3/4.5 &things are much better in veg now & i only feed full strength in flower .
i'm trying to understand how feed strength effects the PH swing . i know in hydro that if your PH goes down & your PPM goes up the plants are taking in mainly water & the opposite if taking in nutes . how would this apply to coco hempys or even DTW coco . or am i on the wrong thinking track ?
when i hand feed I fill 5 gallon jugs of tap & add my nutes , i feed with that 5 gallons & have half left over for my next feed which is usually 2 days later & i have to PH it again before i can use it . which is not really a problem . but when i set up a rez for my blumats or drip feed ... i have to PH adjust every single day & this is not exceptable cuz the whole purpose of the rez is so i can go away during the summer . if i have to adjust daily ... i can't go away . i'm hoping the RO helps with this but your mention of nute strength causing the PH fluctuations has me wondering . i've been changing nute types to try & find something that can feed most plants at different stages of life ( veg , flower & heavy flower ) all from the same rez . i'll hand feed the PK boost or flush by hand when the time is right but my base nutes i try to keep the same through out . like maxi bloom or GH 6/9 heads recipe , i've tried others but needed seperate rez's .
i hope this is making sense to you & you can see what i'm trying to do . can you give me any ideas or input into my situation Hydro soil ?
The PH swing is just crazy with this tap water , within hours its up past the point of being usefull to the plants , thats in the rez , hand feeding i always make sure its 5.8 when i feed , i can't imagine how its swinging in the medium , if it does at all . when i check the runoff its usually around 5.5 or 5.6 .
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100% Dundee
Member
Not really sure what you guys mean by "going through all that effort", it only takes me ~5 minutes to mix up a gallon of nutrients. If you don't/aren't willing to spend 5 minutes mixing up nutrients for you're plants then thats your own problem lol. Not all of us are going for the "easiest or cheapest" route when it comes to our plants.
And as to why someone would use a formula/nutrient ratio other than Lucas, simple and like I already stated, because I got much better results with it compared to Lucas. I ran Lucas for many cycles and although the results were good, they was lots of room for improvement. I was looking for better smell/taste/production/apperance and Spurrs formula(+ additives) gave that to me where Lucas was/could not. As many people have stated before, you use Lucas Formula, you get Lucas results.
Believe me, if you read my posts above, I am not telling anyone that they should switch to Spurrs from Lucas or anything. I think Lucas formula is wonderful and especially great for beginners. If you are getting results that you are satisfied with, by all means continue using it. Some of us just want better/more results from our plants than Lucas can provide. That's the reason there are hundreds of different nutrients, ranging from synthetic, organic, veganic, soil, hydro, whatever you want. Its all down to whatever that particular grower likes/wants/prefers/etc out of their plants. Different strokes for different folks and all.
And as to why someone would use a formula/nutrient ratio other than Lucas, simple and like I already stated, because I got much better results with it compared to Lucas. I ran Lucas for many cycles and although the results were good, they was lots of room for improvement. I was looking for better smell/taste/production/apperance and Spurrs formula(+ additives) gave that to me where Lucas was/could not. As many people have stated before, you use Lucas Formula, you get Lucas results.
Believe me, if you read my posts above, I am not telling anyone that they should switch to Spurrs from Lucas or anything. I think Lucas formula is wonderful and especially great for beginners. If you are getting results that you are satisfied with, by all means continue using it. Some of us just want better/more results from our plants than Lucas can provide. That's the reason there are hundreds of different nutrients, ranging from synthetic, organic, veganic, soil, hydro, whatever you want. Its all down to whatever that particular grower likes/wants/prefers/etc out of their plants. Different strokes for different folks and all.
@dansbuds- I'm not trying to be the poster boy for Jack's, but this stuff keeps nice and balanced when it sits for a couple of days. When I used maxibloom or the gh 3 part I always had to adjust my ph on leftover nutrients. With Jack's I don't.
@100%dundee-Hello. It's not that it saves so much time, as if we want to spend any more time away from our ladies....for me, it is easier and way cheaper to have a one part with one additive that is much cheaper than most of the stuff out there and it performs just the same, if not better in some areas...it just makes more sense to me. And these findings are based on my own work, which isn't exhaustive...I've only been at it for a couple of years.
Hempy is about KISS....however, there is always room for improvement and it's very exciting to see how well so many people are doing with this simple method. I mean, the recent work posted here is proof positive that it is simple and quite effective. If I only had the courage to try some coco....the results those guys are getting is incredible too!
@100%dundee-Hello. It's not that it saves so much time, as if we want to spend any more time away from our ladies....for me, it is easier and way cheaper to have a one part with one additive that is much cheaper than most of the stuff out there and it performs just the same, if not better in some areas...it just makes more sense to me. And these findings are based on my own work, which isn't exhaustive...I've only been at it for a couple of years.
Hempy is about KISS....however, there is always room for improvement and it's very exciting to see how well so many people are doing with this simple method. I mean, the recent work posted here is proof positive that it is simple and quite effective. If I only had the courage to try some coco....the results those guys are getting is incredible too!
Seedlin
Member
All of a sudden, the last 2 batches of nutes I mixed I can't get the ph down to 5.8 or less. I 'm feeding Botanicare Pure Blend Pro grow 3-2-4. Prevously I was mixing by the gallon 3 tsps nutes and about 1.5 tsp of ph down and gettin in the 5's., now it takes a shit load of ph down to get to 6.1??? I even dumped a 3 gallon batch think i messed up some where... Any ideas here? Getting Maixgrow and Maxi bloon this weekend. Doing Hempy buckets perilite / vermilite and starting some pure coco with perilite in the res.
100% Dundee
Member
Yeah I was never of the mindset that Hempy was about "KISS" or anything like that, more that it is about growing the best plants you can. It is just one of the many hundreds of methods/styles of growing that people use to achieve the best plants they can grow.
Like I have said numerous times, I am not suggesting anyone switch their nutrients to the method I use or anything. I was just answering a few questions to the people who had no idea what I was talking about. If you feel that Lucas or Jacks or whatever you are using is the best/most cost effective/most time efficient method for yourself, keep it up. Ive never been one to tell anyone else how they should or should not be growing, its all about getting results and if you are getting results you are happy with them more power to you.
Personally I like to experiment with my grows and improve, I started with soil and FFOF nutrients and once I had a few grows with that down I moved to hempies with Lucas. When I moved to Hempies with Lucas I got much better results than I was getting with the soil and FFOF so I kept using that. After many grows with Hempies and Lucas I moved to Hempies and Spurrs and got better results yet again, so that's just what I've settled on for the time being. I also just started experimenting with Coco hempies instead of the normal vermiculite/perlite ones and the results are looking very good as well. Its all about experimenting and learning what your plants like the most and what gives you the best results in your particular environment/setup/strains/etc in my opinion.
Like I have said numerous times, I am not suggesting anyone switch their nutrients to the method I use or anything. I was just answering a few questions to the people who had no idea what I was talking about. If you feel that Lucas or Jacks or whatever you are using is the best/most cost effective/most time efficient method for yourself, keep it up. Ive never been one to tell anyone else how they should or should not be growing, its all about getting results and if you are getting results you are happy with them more power to you.
Personally I like to experiment with my grows and improve, I started with soil and FFOF nutrients and once I had a few grows with that down I moved to hempies with Lucas. When I moved to Hempies with Lucas I got much better results than I was getting with the soil and FFOF so I kept using that. After many grows with Hempies and Lucas I moved to Hempies and Spurrs and got better results yet again, so that's just what I've settled on for the time being
. I also just started experimenting with Coco hempies instead of the normal vermiculite/perlite ones and the results are looking very good as well. Its all about experimenting and learning what your plants like the most and what gives you the best results in your particular environment/setup/strains/etc in my opinion.
Lowman
Member
Which Jacks are you using for veg?
That's interesting... I've been using GH products (Flora, FNova,MB) for ten years now.... haven't noticed what you're talking about. Rock solid pH when it's just sitting there at room temp.
I mix up and let it sit for up to (and once in a while 'over') a week... no pH issues. Sounds like you're not letting the MB completely dissolve before setting the pH... I've had it change on me when I've done that.
Stay Safe!
grassott's dad
Member
In my buckets I only check ph just before I feed them. Add nutes, then ph down to 5.9ish then feed straight away. No issues whatsoever. I read that a range of 5.5 - 6.2 are good for hempy buckets. never needed to worry about run off too
