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The OBBT Grow Show!

Heh, its cool rrog. I'm not a very patient person and I've never seen myself as a good teacher, but the sheer amount of awesome that emanates from this community has compelled me to do my best. I think that I am growing as a person just as much as you are from all this.

Now, for today's lesson!

having built and filled the tubs we've got bennies out the wazoo well on their way. However, we could use even more of them. Specific beneficial bacteria are a big part of my feeding regime. We've got tons in the root zone but that is not the only way aerobic bacteria can help our plants.

So, we need to whip up a quick Lacto Bactilli culture! I've seen one or two instructionals on how to make one here on the site, but I do things a little differently myself. User Jaykush has a nice, reliable cold-extraction method posted but I am far too impatient for that crap.

So here's how to make Lady L's supercharged Lacto B culture!

Gather these supplies:



A mason jar full of water, a pan, and some nice long-grain brown rice.

Boil the water in the pan and add a cup or two of the rice. Reduce to a simmer. Cook briefly, only 3-5 minutes. Don't cook it like you are going to eat it. Add no salt or oil. Remember, briefly.

Remove from heat. Pour out the pan and filter the rice from the water. Add this 'rice wash' back into your jar like so:



Mmmm, perfect.

You can let this jar sit around loosely covered for a week or more. Fuck that though, do this instead:



Stick the jar somewhere cool and dim and run a small accessory air stone in it. Minimal air flow, just enough to bubble at the surface a bit.

Within hours the mixture will start to foam up like an organic tea. This means the bacteria have colonized and started going to work. Scrape this foam away and remove it several times over the next day or two. After that we will move on to the rather less pleasant step 2. Come back in 2 days or so to see.

Time for an OBBT update!

I think this is the most aggressive OBBT medium I have mixed up to date. The tubs have been assembled for only three days and already they are COMING TO LIFE!



I know its hard to see in the image from my shitty camera, but look hard smack in the middle of the image. Right above the shadow line. See that? That little gray fuzzy guy? That is a colony of Mycorrhizae fungus! It has already breached the surface of the medium which means it is well on its way to complete takeover.

:woohoo:Fungus Porn! :woohoo:

That poof is a particularly dense colony, but as you can see from the above 2 images there is a light gray haze creeping over the whole surface of the medium. Beautiful! At this rate I would say the tubs will be ready for seedlings in about 3 more days. Can't wait!

*EDIT* Oh Noes! I've already just about run out of image space! Four measly megabytes? Thats all? Is there any way to expand my image space? Do I have to become a cooler user? More posts? More good karma? Must I be an ICmag donor?
*woe* I guess all further images will be remotely hosted from a photobucket account or something. Srry in advance guys.
 

rrog

Active member
Veteran
Heh, its cool rrog. I'm not a very patient person and I've never seen myself as a good teacher, but the sheer amount of awesome that emanates from this community has compelled me to do my best.

?? From my selfish perspective I couldn't have asked for more. You have great answers, explain things in a straightforward manner, and you have details that someone trying to follow exactly need. I'm thrilled.

Really extremely exciting. I love fungus porn! Wow, I never knew.
You should open up a free Photobucket account. Then you can post images like crazy

Thanks again. This was a great post
 
Last edited:
Heh, no prob man, I'll get images figured out.

Love having your responses, but try not to quote my entire post when you respond. Especially when it is such a large, image-filled one. Delete a bunch of that crap and only leave the relevant bits you are responding to. I want to keep this thread nice and clean and easy to read.

Things are starting to get properly exciting now. Resisting the urge to go ahead and stick my sweet beans in the incubator is getting more difficult with each day. Won't be long before we have some of the green stuff going!
 
Hah, well I'll be damned!

Lady L, you don't have to be a plumber to successfully work with PVC fittings, you just have to be patient! This was always your weakness! My rendition of the OBBTs aren't that bad, although I will admit RipVanWeed's version is awfully clean in comparison.

Looks like you have things properly nailed down. Are you seriously getting away with nute concentrations that high up front!? Jumping Jeesus that is a hot medium.

Watch out for the Lady everyone! She pushes her methods right out to the edge of what is possible and then talks about it like its no big deal. She walks a very fine line! The difference between what she does and a catastrophic failure isn't very big. You would all do well to take her advice, but back off on things a little. The OBBTs are very relaxed and easy-going by their nature, but it seems that Lady L has taken them and redlined their performance to within an inch of their little lives. It will make for some spectacular pictures I'm sure, but just be careful if you plan on trying it out for yourself.

Lady Largely

I'm sorry our little reunion had to happen this way. You know that I didn't want the last time we saw eachother IRL to go the way it did. You're just so damn hot-headed, you forced my hand!

In another life, in a parallel universe, in a different potential reality I think things between you and me went a lot differently. Somewhere out in the spiraling firmament different potential versions of you and me are still happily gardening together. Perhaps happily doing other things together as well. Other things that it seems you think should have happened here, in this reality. We both know we came close to that, it almost was that way. But we also both know that it wouldn't have lasted. I'd rather you be an angry old friend hanging out on an internet forum with me than a scorned ex-lover who would refuse to ever speak with me again.

When you get your post count up I'll PM you some contact info, maybe we can have some more long-winded and pointless conversations like old times hm? You know that the distance I put between us is the only reason you are willing to speak with me at all. You gotta see things from my perspective at the time, I really didn't have any other choice.

Ahem *cough* erm

This is a gardening forum isn't it? Well, tried to start off with relevant info, sorry for letting it trail off into something totally unrelated everyone! I'll now get my ass out of here and stop marring Lady L's nice clean thread with my big stupid rants. Count my in for a ringside seat Lady L, can't wait to see what this past year of OBBT experience has yielded you.

Good luck and happy gardening!

-DM
 

McDanger

Member
taking a ringside seat

taking a ringside seat

Here is the recipe of the medium I mixed up yesterday:
2gal sta-green soil w/perlite
1gal ewc
2gal vermiculite
1gal perlite
6gal coco (2gal hydro chunks and 4 more of the chunks treated w/boiling water and broken up w/paint mixer)

2tbsp "activator" bacteria
6cups Holly-tone (I used this instead of bio-tone because I had it. It is more for acid loving plants, but has most of the same things as the bio-tone.)
12cups kelp meal
4cups blood meal

I did not add the epsom salts or lime because I don't have any right now. (can you let me know what these provide and if I need both with the holly-tone?):1help:

I have to get some grommets and elbows for the buckets and will build them today. Ordering an air pump today also. (I have a cheap one to use for now).

Thats it for now, I will have some questions soon enough.:woohoo:
 

rrog

Active member
Veteran
I have read that using the O-ring type bulkhead nozzles are less likely to leak than the grommet-type.
 

rrog

Active member
Veteran
It's really bugged me and I posted the question on three different forums. I have also ordered a few different types and will try them in a scrap pail. I'll pick the winner and post pics and results. The fact that these might leak pissed me off.
 
Heh, leaks are an issue which is why I always liked working with PVC. Get everything fit tight and use lots of glue and primer. PVC is pressure rated and so will easily stand up to the crummy water pressure presented by gravity. Lady L says they are a bastard to work with but its not that bad. She prolly hustled through the process as usual, not bothering to make sure she cut the tube square or primered the fittings properly.

Whatever you end up using leaks can be annoying. That White Lightning Maximus stuff Lady L showed us looks pretty good. Using it preventatively should see even the leak-prone OBBT design being sealed up nicely.

Good luck and happy gardening!

-DM
 

rrog

Active member
Veteran
That White Lightning Maximus stuff Lady L showed us looks pretty good. Using it preventatively should see even the leak-prone OBBT design being sealed up nicely.

That appears to be standard latex sealant. It's possible to get these things leakproof without sealant. I'm hoping that my little trials will yield some good info for everyone.
 

rrog

Active member
Veteran
Well, the Epsom Salts are 80% sulfur 20% magnesium, while the lime is Calcium. You'd need them all.

Standard Epsom Salts have been recommended, and a "fast acting" Lime called Pennington's Fast Acting Lime was also called out
 
Hoooo,

Yea, don't skip out on that shit McDanger! Epsom can be added in water later on, but calcium has to be mixed into the medium up front. It is not water-soluble. The only way to get good coverage of it at a high enough concentration is to mix it in when the medium is mixed.

If you have already built your medium this is a bit of a bummer. Once the medium has been mixed and activated you must take care to disturb it as little as possible. Mycorrhizae fungus is extremely fragile. If you have to re-mix your medium to get the calcium in there then the fungus is gonna have to re-build itself all over again.

Mg, Cal and S are all very important. Without them proper cell structure is impossible. Get calcium from fast-acting lime, hydrated lime or dolomite lime. Mix a generous quantity in up front. Stick to my recopy for this part.

Epsom provides sulfur and Mg, but in the wrong ratio. Epsom contains 4 times more sulfur than magnesium which is exactly opposite of what we want. 4 times the Mg compared to S is desirable for cannabis. Check your holly tone. If its anything like bio tone it should have decent Mg. Epsom provides the sulfur and a little Mg boost to boot.
 
Lady Largely

I'm sorry our little reunion had to happen this way. You know that I didn't want the last time we saw eachother IRL to go the way it did. You're just so damn hot-headed, you forced my hand!

Oh DrunkenMess, you sentimental old fool. Your self-image must be even more inflated then usual if you think that I wanted 'other things' from you back then. You know that when I want something I take it! If I wanted other things from you I would have taken them too. You know you wouldn't have stopped me. Your balls where so blue that you thought it was a good idea to fuck that psychotic bitch who has crushed your spirit and manhood. And then you stayed with her. Good god man, quit while you're ahead already. I have nothing to talk to you about. Why don't you try and keep our personal lives out of my gardening thread hm?

Anyway, and now on with

Today's lesson!

Last we left off we had let our rice wash sit in the dark with the bubbler on. Things should happen to it within 48 hours:



Obviously with a bubbler in it there are going to be bubbles. However after about a day you should start to see a noticeable increase in foam. Look at the above image compared to the first one I posted.

Also, you should see this:


See that nasty gunk that has crusted up on the side of the jar? That is a sign that the bacteria are working and we want to remove it.

When the culture is 'done' the foaming will subside and it will be bubbling like when you first mixed it up. It should also be a bit more transparent than before.



Now comes the much less pleasant step 2:



Get a bigass jar or other suitable container and a measuring device. In the bigass jar place 1 part starter culture and 8 parts milk.



Now put it back in the dark place and re-insert the bubbler



It should froth a little, but it won't excessively...... Yet.

Soon this should happen:


God Why!?!?

The jar will start to produce 'cheese'. This is the Lacto Bactilli taking hold of the nutrients. They can only consume carbohydrates. Therefore they push all of the fat and protien that they can't process out of the liquid. That is the horrible foam that you see. Sadly, it must be removed promptly


Oh the humanity!

For me this new culture has been particularly good. The second stage of my culture hasn't even been mixed up for 8 hours yet and allready it has produced this:


Yuck!

The culture is seriously rocking and rolling, I think I'm gonna set a new personal record. My fastest previous lacto B culture took between 5 and 6 days. This one has yet to hit the 72 hour mark and already it is entering the home streach.

Diligently remove the cheese once or twice a day. Soon the culture will become a transperant, pale yellow. This means she is finished! What we do with this awesome culture will be posted soon!

 
Holy Fuckin Shit Batman!

Just had to share this with you guys. I had tended to the cheese right before I made this last post so that I could take pictures for you guys. After posting I decided to go back down into the box and have a look at things.

In the 30 minutes that it had taken me to make that post my Lacto B culture had produced this:



I threw it on my scale for shits and giggles. 43 grams. That means at this point my culture is producing more than one gram of cheese every minute

This is fabulous. I'm getting such a good vibe from this. The air here is special. This is my first grow in this new location and I just keep feeling better and better about it. I swear my old rig suffered from Bad Room Syndrome. This new one is tits and cake!

See, this culture is made by pulling bacteria out of the air. The only thing different between this culture and ones I have done before is that I am dealing with new air in a new part of the country. The Lacto B around here must be stronger than where I was before. I have never run such a badass culture. The air here is alive, and the life in it is awesome! I can feel the good vibes washing over me and my plants-to-be who are still cooped up in their seeds. Not for much longer at this rate!!!
 
EXCELLENT!! Love it. Good breeding there Lady.

I was wondering when the "Lacto" part was going to come into play. Now I know.

I am going to make a rather educated guess that them thar little friends of yours have a few different uses.

Would you agree that say a rice-per-gallon ratio might be something like 1-2 cups per 32oz. water? Making that about 4-8 cups per gallon.

Have you ever tried a filter bag of rice flower or bran would do in place? I am assuming your after the simple carb loaded outer layer and wash from the rice.

If the air flow where too high, what do you see happen? Am I correct in that we are seeking a more anaerobic bacterial starter- hence the low air flow. Just enough to put lots of airborne bacteria in, not enough to stay aerobic. Somethings not quite fitting together for me around that, just looking for a little more clarity is all.

For the record, I totally appreciate your comment about following the plan. Totally totally here your wisdom in that. In me you have no refuting of the logic. I intend to veer as little as possible, only modifying what need be done to modify the system. They "should" run effectively identical to what your doing.

I hear the wisdom of coming to understand the basic system before trying to run multiple- since I am not even sure I can get one to work yet, and have no frame of reference then for many. I could easily make any number of wrong turns and not know exactly what factors caused it. It's like I have no idea of what mark I am trying to aim for.

That said, I am inclined to start a 4 or 6 simply cause I need to spend time f'ing with it all, and if I am going to invest the time/space, I may as well spend it on the model that I am going to try and be running. There are many factors I need to see in practice about. Time/space is limited, I don't have forever to do this. Owww it might bite me in the ass yet, I know. You can officially give me an "I told you so"- and I will not pull some crap and blame your system I promise.

I am hoping previous experience with bio systems and a lot of other knowledge will see me through. I "believe" I have the basic concepts of this one grasped, and am turning to you my dear to fill in a lot of the practical bits. Trust me- I am taking notes.

I think if I can get the thing incubated and ready to plant into, that will tell me a lot at least about the feasibility of the multi tub design I am working. If that happens, well- I know I am heading in the right direction, and it "should" run pretty much like the single units from then on. If I can't even get there I know I need to go back to the drawing board.

I may as well get familiar with it in one big heave hoe.
 

McDanger

Member
Hoooo,

Yea, don't skip out on that shit McDanger! Epsom can be added in water later on, but calcium has to be mixed into the medium up front. It is not water-soluble. The only way to get good coverage of it at a high enough concentration is to mix it in when the medium is mixed.

If you have already built your medium this is a bit of a bummer. Once the medium has been mixed and activated you must take care to disturb it as little as possible. Mycorrhizae fungus is extremely fragile. If you have to re-mix your medium to get the calcium in there then the fungus is gonna have to re-build itself all over again.

Mg, Cal and S are all very important. Without them proper cell structure is impossible. Get calcium from fast-acting lime, hydrated lime or dolomite lime. Mix a generous quantity in up front. Stick to my recopy for this part.

Epsom provides sulfur and Mg, but in the wrong ratio. Epsom contains 4 times more sulfur than magnesium which is exactly opposite of what we want. 4 times the Mg compared to S is desirable for cannabis. Check your holly tone. If its anything like bio tone it should have decent Mg. Epsom provides the sulfur and a little Mg boost to boot.

OK,
I found some epsom in a closet so I will add that.
The holly-tone side panel states that the sulfer=5%, Mg=.5%,(.3% water soluble) Ca=3%
I also have MagiCal, which I assume is not organic. The bottle ststes: derived from Calcium nitrate, Calcium cloride, Magnesium Nitrate, Iron EDTA, and Iron DTPA.
Analysis-N 2%, Ca=3.25%, Mg=1.25%, Fe=.11%

comments???
 

McDanger

Member
Well, the Epsom Salts are 80% sulfur 20% magnesium, while the lime is Calcium. You'd need them all.

Standard Epsom Salts have been recommended, and a "fast acting" Lime called Pennington's Fast Acting Lime was also called out
I went to the espoma website and compared the holly-tone to the bio-tone. The holly has less Ca and Mg but more sulfur.
I will get the fast acting lime today.

The rest has been mixed but am I correct in thinking it needs the water and air to activate it? I have not added water or air yet, that will be done today.
 
Eh, that figures

McDanger

Sulfer lowers the pH of a medium. Holly tone is meant for acid-loving plants so it only figures that it would pack a lot of S. That MagiCal sounds like just what you need. It may not be organically-derived but I'll look the other way this time.

With low moisture and no air the medium will indeed sit dormant. This is good. Flop it into a tub, wet it and bubble it when you are ready.

Citizen024

Your rice/water ratio sounds about right. But remember that the the stage one mix gets combined with eight parts milk, so you don't need much of it. Add to that the fact that you are supposed to water the final culture down 10-20 times before using it. A little bit goes a loooooong way.

Screw using a filter bag. That sounds like some cold-extraction crap. Takes too long.

If the air flow where too high, what do you see happen? Am I correct in that we are seeking a more anaerobic bacterial starter- hence the low air flow. Just enough to put lots of airborne bacteria in, not enough to stay aerobic. Somethings not quite fitting together for me around that, just looking for a little more clarity is all.

BZZZZZT! Wrong!

We specifically do not want anaerobacteria. The little fuckers breed pathogens. The usage of a bubbler in this process is meant specifically to kill them off. If you have done things right there will be no anaerobic creatures in the mix.

The only reason I say not to use excessive air pressure is because it makes a mess! This is messy business to start with and over-excessive foaming just makes it worse. Nothing bad would happen if you used "too much" air other than getting gunky nasty crap on your floor! I also use low pressure because my accessory stone runs off a common manifold. Running it wide-open would drastically reduce air levels in my OBBTs. I've got it on a cheap plastic air-control needle-valve.

It sounds like you've got your shit straight Citizen024. I was discouraging experimentation without having run an ordinary OBBT, but given your previous experience you will prolly get away with it. You are an organic green-thumb and I think you will have an easy time telling if things are 'right' after you've run incubation. It will be plain weather or not your crazy table idea is gonna work long before plants get stuck in. An OBBT either works or it doesn't, it will not languish in a 'half-way-there' limbo. You won't end up with something that looks good enough to use at first and then goes sour later on. You have to know how to talk to them and I think you will have a very easy time learning their language.

You have my blessings to experiment right from the get-go. It sounds like you want to mess with the OBBT recopy as little as possible. I think you understand the underlying concepts well. Go fourth and do great works my son, I have confidence in you.
 
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how you do that!



54 hours dead. A new personal best. Perhaps one of the fastest Home-made Lacto B cultures ever! Eat your heart out jaykush!

Strain off the last of the cheese and you should be left with a pale yellow liquid. Smells a little sour, like a strong blue cheese.



Now that the Lacto B have pushed out all of the fat and protien they have almost certainly used up all available carbohydrates (its not like theres a lot of em in milk anyway). I squeezed about a teaspoon of honey into the mix to keep them happy for a couple more days until I'm ready to start my veg tea and foliar spray.

OBBT UPDATE!

Things are starting to get properly fuzzy now. A thin gray haze has completely coated the surface of my tubs. I'd wager that it is safe for me to drop sprouts in today! Sadly I am a wee bit behind schedule. Still gotta get my ventilation squared away and get my lamp hung and wired. Gonna buy some fresh tubes for it as well. Until next time, here's more fungus porn!

 

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