Unfortunately Seed Savers dot org has been compromised.
I don't have a link but their execs are linked to big ag (think Monsanto, Syngenta, etc.), with not so good consequences, in the last few years.
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The Need for a Real Seed Bank and a standardized seed storage technique
- Thread starter zamalito
- Start date
Unfortunately Seed Savers dot org has been compromised.
I don't have a link but their execs are linked to big ag (think Monsanto, Syngenta, etc.), with not so good consequences, in the last few years.
Blind Joe Death
Active member
The Idea still stands regardless if the players have changed...Experimental Farm Network is now bringing in old food crops that had been stored by the USDA and replenishing the seed stock to be sold back to farmers who want to grow something a little different.
I wonder if anyone has tried to send seed stock to Svalbart or places like that
acespicoli
Well-known member
First I'm hearing of that ^
If that is true they are probably collecting genetics,
I'm familiar with Franken genes and Big AG and chemical companies
I'm a exchange member there and through the network yearbook you can contact me and receive genetics I have personally collected from the wild.
With pictures dates and locations about the plants all non gmo
Seed testing requires only 200 seeds in most cases.
Non seed material can also be sequenced for purity and genetic uniqueness
I looked up the board members, and they have the kinds of academic and farming affiliations you might expect from a seed saving non-profit. I’d love to see any legit info to the contrary, but until then I think it’s false.
romanoweed
Well-known member
I was thinking about that idea to send Seeds somewhere, so they are stored. But seed savers org doesent store seeds, right?. I thought it at first. Ok , but does anyone know where to store seeds? Could one use this norwegian Seedvault, just labeling Seeds like Hemp seeds?
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acespicoli
Well-known member
So far breeder collectives is the best preservation work I have seen, seed clubs!
You do need a set of protocols to use, also I would suggest extreamly long term storge to be frozen, but not the working collection as it is not good to freeze, thaw, freeze, thaw, freeze etc. I also did not store my seeds in a vacuum I do not believe it is better. I do agree that seeds need to be dry and have lower humidity storage. Freezing does store longer.
I stored extreamly well made seeds for 25 years at 5C and still got 96% germ when I tested them, the same will not be true if seeds are poorly made, or stored for much time at room temps before preservation in cold.
I also suggest a pollen bank I do freeze pollen and it still worked 25 years later when dried and stored properly at -30C. I put in 1 gram paper bindles so I could just take one out of a glass jar in the freezer.
One other problem is reproductions of a land race you can not just reproduce a few, that will cause gene loss and after a few reproductions the landrace will not have the same genes in the same frequencies, you need 2,000 plants 1,000 female and 1,000 male free pollinating at one time in one field, as Cannabis is a Heterozygous Dioecious Obligate Outcrosser. Few if any one in the West has conserved any landrce correctly the just preserved a slice of the pie not the pie.
RCC and I tried to do this back in 1980 but no interest in contributing seeds, everyone just wanted to take from the collection.... We gave up we were called "the Friends Of Cannabis"
You really want to collect a minimum of say 10,000 seeds of any sample in the collection that is maybe 4-5 film cans worth about 200 grams. Freeze half and place the other half at 5C to be reproduced every 5-10 years, if you want to allow easy access to the varietes by others then maybe double the amounts?
The most important is funding to keep the collection safe from time. People move, laws change, people die, the seeds need a real funding source like a grant and a location where the electricity is dependable and safe from fires. That will allow a foundation to own a building for the seed bank and salary for at least one caretaker.
Maybe that could be funded by donations to the Bank by anyone wanting to make withdrawals ?
Another problem is genepool contamination, if you go to Mexico or Jamaica or Morocco you will not find pure landraces they are all hybrids today all mixed with Western bred mostly WLD varieties that well meaning folks took to Mexico, Jamaica, Morroco, they are all hybrids today and in many traditional Cannabis areas it is the same, the more Westerners that travel to the country the worse it is. Hashish countries are even worse as they produced seeded Cannabis crops and the pollen exchange is very rapid throut the landrace genepool.
You also need samples from the different areas of Traditional Cannabis areas, India for example has many many different landraces from Kashmir to Kerala and they are very different and all need preservation. I would preserve any Cannabis variety be it wild, cultivated, hemp or drug like Ganja and Hashish.
The final point is analysis of the traits thet requires grow outs, evaluation sheets, and Cannabinoid and terpene analysis via GC or HPLC as well as DNA sequencing, that will allow future breeders to use the collection in a much wiser way.
This genepool is a heritage that belongs to all mankind we are mearly temporary custodians, if we screw it up, we will lose thousands of years of work by the farmers of the Traditional Cannabis countries, that is a crime.
-SamS
I stored extreamly well made seeds for 25 years at 5C and still got 96% germ when I tested them, the same will not be true if seeds are poorly made, or stored for much time at room temps before preservation in cold.
I also suggest a pollen bank I do freeze pollen and it still worked 25 years later when dried and stored properly at -30C. I put in 1 gram paper bindles so I could just take one out of a glass jar in the freezer.
One other problem is reproductions of a land race you can not just reproduce a few, that will cause gene loss and after a few reproductions the landrace will not have the same genes in the same frequencies, you need 2,000 plants 1,000 female and 1,000 male free pollinating at one time in one field, as Cannabis is a Heterozygous Dioecious Obligate Outcrosser. Few if any one in the West has conserved any landrce correctly the just preserved a slice of the pie not the pie.
RCC and I tried to do this back in 1980 but no interest in contributing seeds, everyone just wanted to take from the collection.... We gave up we were called "the Friends Of Cannabis"
You really want to collect a minimum of say 10,000 seeds of any sample in the collection that is maybe 4-5 film cans worth about 200 grams. Freeze half and place the other half at 5C to be reproduced every 5-10 years, if you want to allow easy access to the varietes by others then maybe double the amounts?
The most important is funding to keep the collection safe from time. People move, laws change, people die, the seeds need a real funding source like a grant and a location where the electricity is dependable and safe from fires. That will allow a foundation to own a building for the seed bank and salary for at least one caretaker.
Maybe that could be funded by donations to the Bank by anyone wanting to make withdrawals ?
Another problem is genepool contamination, if you go to Mexico or Jamaica or Morocco you will not find pure landraces they are all hybrids today all mixed with Western bred mostly WLD varieties that well meaning folks took to Mexico, Jamaica, Morroco, they are all hybrids today and in many traditional Cannabis areas it is the same, the more Westerners that travel to the country the worse it is. Hashish countries are even worse as they produced seeded Cannabis crops and the pollen exchange is very rapid throut the landrace genepool.
You also need samples from the different areas of Traditional Cannabis areas, India for example has many many different landraces from Kashmir to Kerala and they are very different and all need preservation. I would preserve any Cannabis variety be it wild, cultivated, hemp or drug like Ganja and Hashish.
The final point is analysis of the traits thet requires grow outs, evaluation sheets, and Cannabinoid and terpene analysis via GC or HPLC as well as DNA sequencing, that will allow future breeders to use the collection in a much wiser way.
This genepool is a heritage that belongs to all mankind we are mearly temporary custodians, if we screw it up, we will lose thousands of years of work by the farmers of the Traditional Cannabis countries, that is a crime.
-SamS
Sam, are there plans by anyone that you know about to start such a storage with donations for people to join in on or simply an idea of what could be?
No my comment is what needs to be done to conserve Cannabis seeds in a bank. I have a personal collection of several tons of 5,000 differtent landraces and hybrids I made from them.
-SamS
-SamS
acespicoli
Well-known member
I know Phylos Galaxy does genotyping, not sure what type?
What format are the results delivered in is of interest.
One method of viewing the genome
Cannabis is a fascinating plant that produces fiber, edible seed, oil and numerous cannabinoids such as THC, CBD, CBN. It is also unique in that no other plants that we know of have the capacity to produce cannabinoids; the genes that encode the enzymes required to produce cannabinoids are unique to the cannabis genome. The main difference between the potency and medical benefits of the cannabinoids found in marijuana can be attributed to a single enzyme, or a genetically encoded switch, at the last step in the cannabinoid pathway. This “switch,” which is called the THCA synthase and CBDA synthase enzyme, fold precursor molecules (Cannabigerolic acid) into either THCA or CBDA. Plants that produce high levels of THC express genes that code for hyper active versions of the enzyme THCA synthase, whereas those plants that code for the enzyme CBDA synthase produce more CBD. The sequencing readout below indicates that there are numerous SNPs in the THCA synthase gene, which would be one key driver behind the genetic differences of the cannabis plants.
You really need to have some goals like unique landrace preservation ?
THC, CBD, Terpene? (Chemical)
Maybe short, tall or thin leaf, wide leaf? (Morphology)
Fast flower, Long Flower, Auto Flower? (Flowering)
Disease Resistance ? (Evolution)
Phylos gives a good representation of genetic uniqueness IMO, respect !
Is there a way to view more detailed reports ?
The prevailing theory focuses on the genetic production of THC and CBD, which is why indica plants have high THC:CBD ratios and sativa plants have high CBD:THC ratios. Many strains produce varying amounts of both enzymes due to hybridization, or cross breeding, of the gene pools; this explains why some sativas are rich in THC and some indicas are not
Interesting - https://www.steephill. com/blogs/15 (link disabled)
How can we overcome the lack of public accessible germplasm resources and begin proper plant breeding programs in cannabis?
Currently looking into
Routine DNA seed testing services
Seed Health Testing
No presence of genetic engineering plant materials in seed
Plant genotyping (microsatellite-based) not sure this is the best method ?
Cannabis hemp sativa (left) indica (right) interesting ?
What format are the results delivered in is of interest.
One method of viewing the genome
Cannabis is a fascinating plant that produces fiber, edible seed, oil and numerous cannabinoids such as THC, CBD, CBN. It is also unique in that no other plants that we know of have the capacity to produce cannabinoids; the genes that encode the enzymes required to produce cannabinoids are unique to the cannabis genome. The main difference between the potency and medical benefits of the cannabinoids found in marijuana can be attributed to a single enzyme, or a genetically encoded switch, at the last step in the cannabinoid pathway. This “switch,” which is called the THCA synthase and CBDA synthase enzyme, fold precursor molecules (Cannabigerolic acid) into either THCA or CBDA. Plants that produce high levels of THC express genes that code for hyper active versions of the enzyme THCA synthase, whereas those plants that code for the enzyme CBDA synthase produce more CBD. The sequencing readout below indicates that there are numerous SNPs in the THCA synthase gene, which would be one key driver behind the genetic differences of the cannabis plants.
You really need to have some goals like unique landrace preservation ?
THC, CBD, Terpene? (Chemical)
Maybe short, tall or thin leaf, wide leaf? (Morphology)
Fast flower, Long Flower, Auto Flower? (Flowering)
Disease Resistance ? (Evolution)
Phylos gives a good representation of genetic uniqueness IMO, respect !
Is there a way to view more detailed reports ?
The prevailing theory focuses on the genetic production of THC and CBD, which is why indica plants have high THC:CBD ratios and sativa plants have high CBD:THC ratios. Many strains produce varying amounts of both enzymes due to hybridization, or cross breeding, of the gene pools; this explains why some sativas are rich in THC and some indicas are not
Interesting - https://www.steephill. com/blogs/15 (link disabled)
How can we overcome the lack of public accessible germplasm resources and begin proper plant breeding programs in cannabis?
Currently looking into
Routine DNA seed testing services
Seed Health Testing
No presence of genetic engineering plant materials in seed
Plant genotyping (microsatellite-based) not sure this is the best method ?
Cannabis hemp sativa (left) indica (right) interesting ?
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Here's all the public access you can handle.
https://opencannabisproject.org/external-data-resources/
Download the data sets, learn to program in R, and then draw educated correlations. The problem is no one has a complete cannabis genome to reference the data against so you're shooting in dark. Pop a few thousand seeds, sequence them all your self and you might get close.
https://opencannabisproject.org/external-data-resources/
Download the data sets, learn to program in R, and then draw educated correlations. The problem is no one has a complete cannabis genome to reference the data against so you're shooting in dark. Pop a few thousand seeds, sequence them all your self and you might get close.
In response to anyone who would like a clade display (another thread I know), the answer is that it can never clearly articulate a strain like cannabis. The amount of scrolling on your browser would really upset the user. It's been hybridized so much with base pairs existing in so many simultaneous ways (and not) that a clade would be unreadable. The galaxy appears unreadable to some because they don't have the data sets. They only have their samples and their sequence data.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kendall_tau_distance
I don't think we'll ever be able to see a top-down, basal origin because even though some samples have been preserved for thousands of years, they may be degraded and may have dissimilar bases based on region, heirloom intervention, etc. Then we would need a sample from every generation to trace the polymorphisms. And as Sam pointed out, a lot of people have only taken slices of the pie. The gene pool is sorely under-represented even with the thousands of sample Phylos gathered. Our taxonomy would need to be conformed (as McPartland's paper outlined) and each regional morphology would have to recognize one single wild-type which ....you tell me. Is that possible?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kendall_tau_distance
I don't think we'll ever be able to see a top-down, basal origin because even though some samples have been preserved for thousands of years, they may be degraded and may have dissimilar bases based on region, heirloom intervention, etc. Then we would need a sample from every generation to trace the polymorphisms. And as Sam pointed out, a lot of people have only taken slices of the pie. The gene pool is sorely under-represented even with the thousands of sample Phylos gathered. Our taxonomy would need to be conformed (as McPartland's paper outlined) and each regional morphology would have to recognize one single wild-type which ....you tell me. Is that possible?
acespicoli
Well-known member
Very good information, bsgospel
Scaffolding and optical mapping of the data would be necessary?
Unique markers! Not overlapping
Collectors, Storage, Growers, Testers needed
Several admins and as many participants as possible
would hopefully make this project a idea that comes to fruition
Maybe we can get a sub thread in the breeders section of IC with mods to start
The optical mapping would be the 3d Phylos Galaxy and Kendall distancing (which seems to me like how they built the Galaxy in the first place. And the markers won't necessarily be unique. And overlapping is not bad, it tells you where the differences per generation are, if any.
I'm interested in the theory but we're a long way from that. I think publishing data in the public domain is the way to go but you need a vehicle for that. If people won't use Phylos and the open cannabis project is dissolving, we need to wait for the next iteration to sequence and publish but it will start this debate all over again.
I'm interested in the theory but we're a long way from that. I think publishing data in the public domain is the way to go but you need a vehicle for that. If people won't use Phylos and the open cannabis project is dissolving, we need to wait for the next iteration to sequence and publish but it will start this debate all over again.
That is a lot of seed. Really not a lot, TONS. So my question is, why are you sitting on them ? Any plans for them ? There surely could be a better use to them, than sitting in storage ? I'm guilty of hording seeds myself. But not on a scale that large. I have a shot, with the help of 3-4 friends to grow ALL of the seeds I have amassed . But tons of seeds, you must have some kind of plan for them, No ?
